where are you located? where did you see these items in question, at a department store, a boutique or some stand in a mall or ect..?

Some of the items you've seen could be in fact licensed merchandise (legal) or it could very well be bootleged/knock offs/ect... (not legal)

the black market will always exist, it's just not legal.


"they told me I couldn't use it because it resembled too much of a NFL team logo"

depending on what you are doing with your design and how similar it is to an actual NFL teams logo it is.. it may actually be legal. In some cases it can fall under the 'spoof' (don't know the legal term) category.

 

After making my first design and sharing it with a "friend" they told me I couldn't use it because it resembled too much of a NFL team logo

Selling designs that are close to an existing trademark can increase your risk of getting sued by the trademark holder who has a duty to actively protect their registered brand.

I see people selling logo stickers, t-shirts with sports teams, t-shirts with movies/tv show themes, etc... What are the actual laws here?

In the US, you can't sell someone else's intellectual property (which includes professional sports team names, movies, tv shows, etc) without their permission.

So some have permission and some are doing it illegally. Hard to say which is the case for the ones you've seen.

Some people get caught and go to jail for selling counterfeit merchandise, some people may get away with it for awhile.

I don't think it's worth risking your business to try to skirt the line, but that's a call that every person has to make. If you want real legal advice though, you should be asking a lawyer, not us

Should I focus my money on a different business Idea?

There are lots of things you can do with a vinyl cutter and a heat press besides logos that are similar to existing sports teams.

I'd suggest focusing your energy and creativity into something original that can be done with that equipment.

 

I know you don't want to give away your secrets, but I'd really like to see that design. Rodney is right, it gets very tricky. However, I have done several designs for youth groups and schools that have the EXACT same Eagle mascot as the one used by the Philadelphia Eagles. Does the NFL Eagles own that particular version of an eagle, or is it only when you combine it with their particular choice of font/colors etc? That "eagle" is a standard on just about every cd I've seen of vector artwork for mascots. Where truly is the line?

 

I know you don't want to give away your secrets, but I'd really like to see that design.

Agreed, I'd like to see it too.

However, I have done several designs for youth groups and schools that have the EXACT same Eagle mascot as the one used by the Philadelphia Eagles.

The NFL does a lot of work with youth development leagues, so they are allowed to use the logos. Most youth leagues are not-for-profit, so it's not like they are using the logos specifically to profit off the NFL's IP. Also, they use the logos because it's exciting for kids to wear similar uniforms as the pros.

Does the NFL Eagles own that particular version of an eagle, or is it only when you combine it with their particular choice of font/colors etc?

I think the logos fall under the IP of the NFL. I'm sure the team has some level of ownership as well, but it probably all goes hand in hand under the NFL's merchandising and IP. And it is possible that the league and team only have ownership of the logo in specific colors, it depends on the info on the registration application.

Where truly is the line?

There is always gray area in IP situations. Honestly, the line is drawn wherever the IP owner decides to draw it. Some infringers get sued, some get away with it. I doubt there is any rhyme or reason, it's a big world, can't stop them all.

 

Does the NFL Eagles own that particular version of an eagle, or is it only when you combine it with their particular choice of font/colors etc? That "eagle" is a standard on just about every cd I've seen of vector artwork for mascots. Where truly is the line?

I think the problem with defining "the line" is that even if you think you're on the right side of it, you can still get sued if the trademark holder "feels" that your design is confusingly similar.

Then you have to spend the money to prove that you're on the right side of the line.

That's why I suggest staying away from the line, even if it's only for monetary sake

 

I think MLB stopped letting teams use pro team logos. Did we not have a thread on here a few years ago about that topic?

 

I'm pretty sure MLB still allows the use of the names and logos, but the uniforms need to be purchased from Majestic, since they are the official licensed supplier of MLB uniforms.

 

I know there was a big outcry about one of those issues.

 

There was an issue one year where a local little league tried to buy uniforms from a non licensed supplier. The league went crazy. They got some bad press about it, as did Majestic, because the league claimed the other supplier had cheaper prices. But MLB reminded them that their 30 million dollars a year that they contribute to little leagues is what allows them to buy new uniforms and equipment each year. So if they have a rule regarding who should supply the uniforms, leagues should understand and respect that.

 

When I played LLB we had a sponsors that purchased our uniforms. I think we may have even purchased our own pants.

 

When I played LLB we had a sponsors that purchased our uniforms. I think we may have even purchased our own pants.

when I played we had to kill the cow and skin them to make our own balls and chop down the tree to make the bats. Aluminum wasn't invented yet.
And moms hand sewed our uni's.

How times have changed for the little guys !

 

I would heed Rodney's advice. We were in the licensed sportswear business for many years and I know that the leagues will aggressively pursue knock offs and look alikes.

 

Why copy when you can be original? You can get a pro feel, many will think it's a "real" team, by getting creative with mascots. I've done many many team logos over the years and always get a great reaction when the team sees their unique design. Nowadays people are not so tied to the same old logos (witness amer eagle outfitters or aeropostale or old navy with made up schools and places). So why not start now to establish your "look" and style? You don't want to produce what people can get anywhere else, do you? You have to have more to compete with than just price or location.

 

Thanks for all the advice. I think it would be cool to do my own custom work, but I really don't have an artistic bone in my body. Does this forum have a good post/posts with custom work pictures to help me with ideas

 

the internet is the best place for ideas. use google or bing and just look for "cool designs" or "cool t-shirts" or "great designs". if it's a certain thing you like then look for that like paintball designs or cars or whatever. you can also browse through sites like cafepress or spreadshirt, red bubble, and see what others are doing.
and for bring artistic, you'd be surprised what great designs and layouts can be done with just text and graphics, without having to actually draw. But even for accomplished artists ideas are the hard part sometimes.

 

I sell GEORGIA BULLDOGS T-Shirts and Hoodies not because I like the Football team but because I own 2 Bulldogs. I don't use any copy protected images owned by the University of Georgia. This is perfectly legal. I also do T-Shirts for some of the local youth leagues. Putting a dolphin on a shirt and calling them the Dolphins is not a violation of any copyright law. What is a violation would be using NFL images and passing the garment off as an offical NFL item. If simply using the name of a State or Professional sports team or other product is a copyright violation then I have a lot of "PISS ON FORD" stickers to recall.

 

I sell GEORGIA BULLDOGS T-Shirts and Hoodies not because I like the Football team but because I own 2 Bulldogs. I don't use any copy protected images owned by the University of Georgia. This is perfectly legal.

Just because you don't use copyrighted material, you could still be infringing on trademarks. It's hard to tell without seeing the artwork. But your claiming it's perfectly legal based on who's opinion? Yours or the CLC? Have you been to court over this and won?

Putting a dolphin on a shirt and calling them the Dolphins is not a violation of any copyright law.

Again, it's not just copyrights that are an issue, but trademarks as well. The problem with this line of thinking, is that it is up to the IP owner to determine whether to bring action. So as Rodney pointed out, even if you are doing something legal, you could still be sued, and you would have to spend money just to prove you are right.

If simply using the name of a State or Professional sports team or other product is a copyright violation then I have a lot of "PISS ON FORD" stickers to recall.

Any time you even come close to using copyrighted or trademarked material, it's important to understand the risks involved. It's not a good thing to just believe what you are doing is ok.

 

Not literally different business idea, but different logo concept. That might cause confusion on the buyer's part that may trigger a decision of filing appropriate legal action on the part of the owner/creator of that logo. Well, you can't automatically claim that it's your original design if it seems to appear as the original NFL logo.

 

My advice to everyone is STOP asking for free legal advice in a T-Shirt forum and talk to an attorney that specializes in these matters. Show them what you are doing and find out if it is legal. Spend the money up front or take a chance on being sued.

Most of the people that post these questions are not looking for the legal answer but for a general consensus of what everyone else is doing. They don’t care if it is illegal as long as they are not the only ones doing it.

 

My advice to everyone is STOP asking for free legal advice in a T-Shirt forum and talk to an attorney that specializes in these matters. Show them what you are doing and find out if it is legal. Spend the money up front or take a chance on being sued.

I agree 100%. Professional legal advice is always the proper course of action. But that's not going to stop people from asking the questions here on the forum. And it shouldn't stop people who have experience to voice an opinion. But it should always be given with understanding that opinion on this forum is not legal advice.

Most of the people that post these questions are not looking for the legal answer but for a general consensus of what everyone else is doing. They don’t care if it is illegal as long as they are not the only ones doing it.

I disagree 100%. I think most people that ask these questions do want to understand the legal elements involved. The fact that they post the question in the first place shows that they have some level of doubt that what they are doing, or want to do, is illegal or risky.

Every once in a while there will be someone who argues the "how can it be illegal if everyone else is doing it" routine. I agree that those people just refuse to accept the laws. They just want to hear someone say that it's ok to do what they want, or want someone to tell them that there is some foolproof loophole. But those people seem to be fewer and farther between these days.

 

I agree.

I have never really given much thought to it because you see so much stuff out there. I just want to make sure I at least have half a clue before I spend the money on the equipment. Of course I would love to make my own shirts for friends and family members but making a few bucks would be nice too. I just don't want any surprises.
Thanks for all the great responses.