What type of frames do you use? Static? Newman?

 

Sorry should have included that. Static (non-roller) frames, aluminium.

 

Ideally both printing methods are perfomed using automatic presses. The reason is manual press operators are unable to continually ensure each shirt is printed using the same amount of pressure and speed. In addition I would strongly recommend purchasing newman rollers as tension is critical to achieving quality prints with the above mentioned printing methods.

It is possible to print cmyk or spot using static frames and a manual press however they are not the ideal circumstances.

 

Unfortunately an automatic press simply isnt an option right now.

Are there any manual printers out there who are successful with CMYK and/or spot process?

 

If you want to print on colored shirts (anything other than white), CMYK will not work. The CMYK ink is translucent and does not block the color of the shirt, and CMYK is not set up for printing an underbase. So the answer is, if you want to print only white shirts, go CMYK. If you want to print colored shirts, go simulated process. A lot of jobs can be done with only 5 colors (you'll need one head for white underbase), but some can't. Your option are much wider with spot process than they will be with CMYK.

 

You should most certainly go for printing CMYK as well as simulated process with your manual press.
I do and with good results. And I have a manual press too. A Hopkins 8/4
Yes, you have to be sure to print each the same way (#of strokes, pressure, same colors in same order...) and, I'll add that yeah, you can do CMYK on colors, including black. I have with good results.
You just have to be sure to print an underbase white, since, yes, process inks are transparent.
I use UltraSeps in Photoshop for sepping my CMYK prints (always create the artwork in RGB, however) and use AccuRip .
Have at it. Experiment. Get a feel for it. You'll find that for some artwork, you'll want to change the order of your prints...from CMYK to maybe YMCK or MCYK, just experiment.
You'll find that you will have some cool results.

 

Much appreciated for detailed info, that's definitely more encouraging. It doesnt make any sense that CMYK would not work with an underbase so thanks for confirming that you're able to do it on you manual. I also never considered changing the order of the colors so thanks for that tip! We have AccuRIP and QuikSeps so hopefully that's good enough for now.

Curious though, why must the artwork be created in RGB prior?

Your equipment is more than adequate. Spot process is easier because the inks have more opacity. You can print process over a white underbase, and in fact Steve at UltraSeps recommends using the one generated by QuikSeps Pro and UltraSeps - even on white tees to help control the color.
The attached was done with Union Ink's 3X Process Ink, which I've found works really well on colored shirts. The customer's shirts were different colors -- some black, some like this. It was for a contest in a fast food restaurant. Anyway, the customer wanted as much color as possible but really only had the budget for 5 colors. If I were good at separations I might have been able to pull this off using spot inks, but I had some time so I separated it as CMYK with a white underbase. Turned out okay, I thought.

Thanks pitman! A white underbase on a white tee? Have you personally been able to verify the results? That's quite interesting.

I think that CMYK print looks very good. How does it compare to the original artwork? Looks like 5 colors was a perfect fit from what is shown on the tee. But if the customer could only afford 5 screens then even the spot would be limited to 4 spot colors so I guess it would boil down to 4 spot colors vs 4 color CMYK.

Our ink supplier exclusively carrier Rutland products. Do you have any experience with their line of process inks?


Thanks again all for the great info re: process on a manual press.

 

Your equipment is more than adequate. Spot process is easier because the inks have more opacity. You can print process over a white underbase, and in fact Steve at UltraSeps recommends using the one generated by QuikSeps Pro and UltraSeps - even on white tees to help control the color.
The attached was done with Union Ink's 3X Process Ink, which I've found works really well on colored shirts. The customer's shirts were different colors -- some black, some like this. It was for a contest in a fast food restaurant. Anyway, the customer wanted as much color as possible but really only had the budget for 5 colors. If I were good at separations I might have been able to pull this off using spot inks, but I had some time so I separated it as CMYK with a white underbase. Turned out okay, I thought.

 

nice print pitman! is that spot process?

 

No. CMYK over white. I did use Union's Triple Strength process colors which print better over white ink on darker shirts, but you can use regular strength process inks.

 

The only reason for RGB is that's what quicks seps require. If doing a CMYK you can simply use the graphics program to do the CMYK separation if in CMYK mode. Depending on your inks being used some have color profiles that will greatly enhance the result. On CMYK prints a halftone underbase works best for darks.

You can definitely do CMYK on darks. Just cause another shop can't doesn't mean you can't. It does take a little practice. Your press and exposure unit have the ability to expose and hold registration. All you have to do now is put a skill set with it.

 

The idea of printing on a white underbase on a white tee, as well as any light-colored tee, is to have more control over the print. It isn't necessary. It's something that QuikSeps/UltraSeps recommends, and I've read others using it. It's not a heavy underbase, but what's referred to as a "print white", and some ink companies sell a standalone white for just such use.
That print was very close to the art as it appeared on my monitor. Some of the dark brownish colors were a bit off, but overall it was very close.
I've no experience with Rutland's process colors. I've started messing around a bit with International Coating's Pro-Brite Process colors, which are a bit brighter than the Union colors, but the Union Tru-Tone colors are generally considered to be the standard. I got a deal on the Pro-Brite colors, and I wanted some non-pthalate colors since I'm doing more and more kid's stuff.
For what it's worth, here's a print I did for my own amusement and education a few years ago. I used QuikSeps for it, doubled the underbase (I think) via "Image/Apply Image". I knocked the black channel out of the underbase since it was on a black shirt, so it's white/yellow/magenta/cyan -- no black ink. I had to hit the cyan about 3 times on the press to punch up the green areas, so the separation job wasn't perfect, but it all worked out as an experiment and gave me some idea of the possibilities. These were the standard Union Tru-Tone colors.

 

CMYK printing isn't any different than printing regular spot colors as halftones, with the exception that they're translucent. Squeegee speed and pressure will make a difference in the appearance, as will print order. I've had jobs where I have to print the magenta very quickly, and maybe the cyan with a slow stroke and then a dry stroke. Every shirt has to be printed the same. If you print one screen unevenly or too light and have to make a second pass, that print will look different from the rest.

 

Yeah I guess everything comes with experimentation until the print looks right. We attempted spot process and I think we were half-way successful.

First we tried QuikSeps and were having a bit of a hard time figuring out how to merge these two red channels that were left (red and soft red) but couldnt figure it out. So we moved over to separation studio and watched a few vids on that.

We were able to break down the original image into 5 colors. The proof in Separation Studio was not accurate as to what was printed but once you placed the EPS in Illustrator and go to separations preview -> overprint preview .. it looks very accurate as to what you'll get on the press.

We choose an image which is comprised almost completely of flesh tones. It's pretty difficult to match the flesh tones for some reason and I am not sure if it's because Separation Studio has a pre-defined ink system (which you CAN edit .. but I'm still surprised that it doesn't match the closest pantone for you to get the best result).

The colors we broke the image down to are blue, red, grey, gold and black. The gold in the first print just didnt look right at all so after a few testing we swapped out the gold that Separation Studio uses with something we had on the shelf which looked a bit more fleshy and it made a world of difference. We also kept changing up the print order until we found one that gave the best result.

I am going to just post links to these images because they are unfortunately NSFW (topless model).

Original

First print (pantone matched all inks used in separation studio)

Second print (swapped out the "gold" for something more fleshy and changed the print order)


I still think it looks a bit animated as opposed to photo-realistic which is what I was hoping to achieve. Maybe it's because we only used 5 colors. I guess doing spot process on photos is probably the most difficult. Cant wait to try something else are a graphic design.

Are photos just as difficult with CMYK or do you get better tones with CMYK? .. Cant wait to try it.

tpitman what does your CMYK workflow look like? Do you do everything in photoshop with Quik/Ultraseps?

 

Just curious, what are you using for mesh (brand, thread count and thread diameter), what is the tension on your screens, and
what are you using for squeegie durometer.
While it is difficult to tell from the picture, it looks like a heavy print, and we accomplish a lot more detail than what I'm seeing in the photos, and we are using Separation Studio as well.

 

23x31 - 280 and one of them was a 305 (cant remember which color though since we didnt have 5 280s to use at the time). Yellow mesh on all the screens though Im not sure what the brand is.

We dont have a tension meter but the mesh is still pretty tight to the touch (if that helps any). We used medium durometer squeegees.

The print wasnt heavy at all. Good opacity though.

If you can spare any tips using sep. studio or just spot process in general I'd love to hear them. Are you using a manual press too?

 

Are the first two numbers the you provide the thread diameter or the screen size? After attending a seminars at trade shows put on by Charlie Facini, I changed the way I did a lot of things, and he is a huge supporter of Seperation Studio. Everyone in this business seems to find a formula that works for them with mesh brand and mesh counts that provides great results, so mine are not the gosiple by any means. When we do spot process, most of the time we are using the 180 Smart Mesh by Murakami. Knowing the thread size and open area of the mess is more important than the thread count. These things will determine how much ink you are actually laying down. Most of the time, the only only things I tweak in Studio Separations is, I bump the underbase, and cut the highlight white way, way way back, if we use it. Occasionally we've had instances where on press, coloring is skewed, and we will change from the recommended pantone color to something else we feel will work better, and in most cases, we see improvements. I don't use what I see on screen (in SS) as the results. As stated, other than the whites, I leave things alone the results are generally pretty good. Ill look for a print that I can send a picture of to give you an idea what we're getting.

 

To merge the soft red with the red, select the red channel, then go to Image/Apply Image and select the soft red in the drop-down menu. If you have preview selected you'll see the change in color, and you can adjust it by changing the percentage in the box there.
Once your done and everything is okay, either don't print the soft red channel or delete it.

I checked the photos you posted, and I think we could all benefit if you'd post close up's of the original, and maybe a few more poses. ;-P

Kidding aside, flesh tones are difficult. Process color yields a greater range of colors, generally, for a limited palette, but spot process is easier to print. Frankly, I've not had much experience with flesh tones.