Hello all, I was at the ISS show in Long Beach this last weekend and I was looking at the sublimation process. This is something I have been keeping my eye on so I had a few questions for one of the guy doing the demonstrations. He didnt seem to be the most outgoing person and frankly I felt I was being a pest after asking 2 questions. So I have 2 more questions if anyone could help me out. 1) can I print sublimation on 100% cotton without the ink fading? The guy at the show said no but I could swear that I have seen this process printed on 100% cotton tees. 2) I have an epson 7600 that runs ultrachrome ink. Would I be able to print on the sublimation material with this printer if I change out the inks that are necessary?
SMB Printing
You cannot do sublimation on 100% cotton. Sublimation must be done on 100% polyester for the best results. You can use ChromaBlast ink on 100% cotton shirts. It is not exactly the same process as sublimation, but it is very similar, and can be done with special transfer paper and a heat press.
As to changing out the inks, what I've always been told is that changing out inks is generally not a good idea. Even if you run a large number of cleanings you can't be absolutely sure that the printer is entirely clean. In most cases, you're better off starting with a new printer.
As to changing out the inks, what I've always been told is that changing out inks is generally not a good idea. Even if you run a large number of cleanings you can't be absolutely sure that the printer is entirely clean. In most cases, you're better off starting with a new printer.
As Kristine said, sublimation can't go on 100% cotton t-shirts.
However, you can do inkjet or laser heat transfers on 100% cotton t-shirts. So it may have been an inkjet or laser transfer that you saw on a 100% cotton t-shirt.
You can read more about inkjet transfers and printers that you can use here: Heat Press and Heat Transfers - T-Shirt Forums
Here is a great post on sublimation vs chromablast that should help
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t68499.html
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/dye-sublimation/t68499.html
Sublimation: Works ONLY on polyester fabrics and polymer coated blanks made specifically for sublimation. In the truest sense, sublimation is NOT a transfer at all, in that the dye actually turns to a gas and penetrates the polyester item, or the poly coated surface of a blank item. Sublimation ink is only made for a relatively small selection of all the Epson and Ricoh printers on the market, of which, the Ricoh GX7000 and the Epson 4880 are the best (in desktop sublimation).
ChromaBlast: Works ONLY on 100% cotton garments. A true transfer in that the ink is printed onto a special paper with a carrier agent which in turn transfers to the garment, but that's where the similarity ends. In this case, the ink is scientifically formulated to bond with the carrier on the paper, then in turn, the ink and carrier together react and then bond with the cotton fibers in the garment when heat pressed. This creates a very nearly permanent image of high quality that will last a long time, with a very mild hand. The same applies to ChromaBlast ink as sublimation in that ink is made for a relatively small number of printers; of which, the Ricoh GX7000 and Epson 4880 are the two best in the desktop market.
Standard Inkjet Transfers: There are several variations on this type of transfer, but typically the ink is printed onto a transfer film or agent on a sheet of paper, then heat pressed onto the garment. The transfer layer acts to carry the ink from the paper over onto the garment, and helps affix the design to the garment. These types of transfers are typically not as durable as ChromaBlast, and definitely not as durable as sublimation. These types of transfers may be available in a wider range of printers.
Overall, a design printed with sublimation or ChromaBlast costs roughly the same in ink and paper. Standard inkjet transfers tend to run cheaper. But, it is a cheaper, less durable product. You usually get what you pay for.
ChromaBlast: Works ONLY on 100% cotton garments. A true transfer in that the ink is printed onto a special paper with a carrier agent which in turn transfers to the garment, but that's where the similarity ends. In this case, the ink is scientifically formulated to bond with the carrier on the paper, then in turn, the ink and carrier together react and then bond with the cotton fibers in the garment when heat pressed. This creates a very nearly permanent image of high quality that will last a long time, with a very mild hand. The same applies to ChromaBlast ink as sublimation in that ink is made for a relatively small number of printers; of which, the Ricoh GX7000 and Epson 4880 are the two best in the desktop market.
Standard Inkjet Transfers: There are several variations on this type of transfer, but typically the ink is printed onto a transfer film or agent on a sheet of paper, then heat pressed onto the garment. The transfer layer acts to carry the ink from the paper over onto the garment, and helps affix the design to the garment. These types of transfers are typically not as durable as ChromaBlast, and definitely not as durable as sublimation. These types of transfers may be available in a wider range of printers.
Overall, a design printed with sublimation or ChromaBlast costs roughly the same in ink and paper. Standard inkjet transfers tend to run cheaper. But, it is a cheaper, less durable product. You usually get what you pay for.
Thanks Kristine, that also helped clear it up for me.
From what i've read the major difference is the durability, that chromablast actually bonds with the cotton fibers sort of like sublimation and will last much longer then standard inkjet transfer (and will also give more vibrant colors?).
The cost for chromablast is approximately the same as sublimation.
I still don't think this maker is using chromablast as the garment didn't pass the wash test, i really think it's just standard inkjet transfer on white. :/
From what i've read the major difference is the durability, that chromablast actually bonds with the cotton fibers sort of like sublimation and will last much longer then standard inkjet transfer (and will also give more vibrant colors?).
The cost for chromablast is approximately the same as sublimation.
I still don't think this maker is using chromablast as the garment didn't pass the wash test, i really think it's just standard inkjet transfer on white. :/
Take a look at this, a spray, applied to cotton to allow sublimation.
Digi Coat Specialised Sublimation Coatings
JIM
Digi Coat Specialised Sublimation Coatings
JIM
So let me get this straight any printer using subli ink can not print on cotton and for chromoblast no polyester. 1 or the other. But can 1 printer be interchanged between these inks to accomodate the product or is that a very bad idea?
Because that would mean ideally you need 2 printers?
V
Because that would mean ideally you need 2 printers?
V
Vadam...very bad idea...to use different inks in the same printer means you MUST purge the one ink from the lines before using the next ink...wastes a lot of expensive ink..not good...and would not recommend it
Switching inks between completely different processes (sublimation/dye/pigment/etc) on a printer is going to be hell. If you don't purge completely you run the risk of the different ink-chemistry interacting in unpredictable ways, leading to clogging and such. You could do it once if you decided to ditch one method for another, but back-and-forth would be horrible.
Yes there is and I have one. It prints sublimation on one side and Chromablast on the other. As to the printer I am not happy with it. The Chromablast clogs even if I do a nozzle check every day. Even after a good purge cleaning the blue nozzle stays clogged. I am considering getting a Ricoh for sublimation and a laser printer for T-shirts (as recommended by David from Conde). Another issue with the Chromablast transfers is that it leaves a film layer on gray or pastel shirts, unless you trim the transfer entirely, which is not always possible. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the laser printer transfers leave a shadow? I was told that the Chromablast shadow will wash out, but it does not.
Sublimation is very nice and bright, but the Vapor apparel shirts cost more and not everyone is willing to pay that price unfortunately.
Sublimation is very nice and bright, but the Vapor apparel shirts cost more and not everyone is willing to pay that price unfortunately.
Hello Cynthia, thanks for the infos.
Sorry to hear your hybrid did not work as you expected, especially if it is an expensive 4800.
I did print some transfer samples on my Dell 2130, it came out real nice but it did left a window, even after 3 washes.
On my side, I am looking at ways to print sublimation on 100% cotton shirts as well.
So far I have gathered some info on 2 steps transfer paper for 100% cotton that can be sublimated, giving some thickness but with soft hand.
Also looking at the cost of sublimation, considering the price of poly garments compared to 100% cotton, I think this is worth a look but I am having difficulties finding infos on the subject.
Gilles
Sorry to hear your hybrid did not work as you expected, especially if it is an expensive 4800.
I did print some transfer samples on my Dell 2130, it came out real nice but it did left a window, even after 3 washes.
On my side, I am looking at ways to print sublimation on 100% cotton shirts as well.
So far I have gathered some info on 2 steps transfer paper for 100% cotton that can be sublimated, giving some thickness but with soft hand.
Also looking at the cost of sublimation, considering the price of poly garments compared to 100% cotton, I think this is worth a look but I am having difficulties finding infos on the subject.
Gilles
Gilles, be careful with the sublimation on cotton. Everything i have read and all the people "in the business" have told me it won't work. A 2-step transfer may be more trouble than it is worth, and costlier also(?). Good luck on your learning...
Giles...read all the sublimation threads...you CANNOT sublimate on cotton...you will get an image but it will wash and fade...remember in sublimation you are actually dying the polyester fibers...the ink turns to a gas and bond with the fibers...it WILL NOT bond to cotton...forget about the spray on crap...not worth...beside with that you are just putting a transfer ON top of the garment...
Hello Charles and Cynthia and thanks for the replies.
I know about sublimation not working on cotton but only on poly garment. I was referring to Coastal 2 steps opaque material. They claim you can sublimate on it, hence my post.
So far I have read about sublimation quality and the 2 steps durability on cotton garment, seems like a winning combination.
I totally agree that the cost would be higher, but if it gives good result on dark/black shirts and better washability, then it is something I am willing to try.
Maybe someone tried it and could post on it, share their experience about that process, tell us about washability and how it holds up, or even show images
Gilles
I know about sublimation not working on cotton but only on poly garment. I was referring to Coastal 2 steps opaque material. They claim you can sublimate on it, hence my post.
So far I have read about sublimation quality and the 2 steps durability on cotton garment, seems like a winning combination.
I totally agree that the cost would be higher, but if it gives good result on dark/black shirts and better washability, then it is something I am willing to try.
Maybe someone tried it and could post on it, share their experience about that process, tell us about washability and how it holds up, or even show images
Gilles
Hi All,
I am completely new to the T shirt designing and printing.. Since i have my own interest towards designing, i have started to learn illustrator and have come up with few designs... and now want to learn about different printing mechanisms. So far I have understood that there r 3 printing methods that goes very well and they r screen printing for bulk printing, digital for lesser no of tees, and there is something called sublimation process. I would like to know all the three methods in detail. Kindly refer me any site or info to learn all these. Thanks.
I am completely new to the T shirt designing and printing.. Since i have my own interest towards designing, i have started to learn illustrator and have come up with few designs... and now want to learn about different printing mechanisms. So far I have understood that there r 3 printing methods that goes very well and they r screen printing for bulk printing, digital for lesser no of tees, and there is something called sublimation process. I would like to know all the three methods in detail. Kindly refer me any site or info to learn all these. Thanks.
Sublimation on 100% cotton will not last. I don't have any more info on the processes than has been explained but I would recommend another source for your printers and ink. Cobra Ink has been installing CIS Systems in Epson Printers since 1999 and they have a very viable reputation! Additionally you won't be paying stratospheric prices for ink, just reasonable charges. They do not call their ink "Sublimation" ink due to legal copyright reasons but instead call it "High Temp Ink". There are many satisfied customers out there.
.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began --- HOME PAGE
.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began -- Printers
For the price of a Ricoh you could get 2 WF1100s & 2 WF30s with Hi Temp & Pigment inks and be set with FULL CIS and printing both for Polyester & 100% Cotton. Your $$ make your choice.
.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began --- HOME PAGE
.:: Cobra Ink Systems::. This is where the term CIS began -- Printers
For the price of a Ricoh you could get 2 WF1100s & 2 WF30s with Hi Temp & Pigment inks and be set with FULL CIS and printing both for Polyester & 100% Cotton. Your $$ make your choice.
I stand corrected and appreciate the update on the reason for the differences. All that I knew was that they could not call their ink sublimation ink because of a manufacturing difference so that led to my reasoning along with others. I do know that the Cobra Ink is a very vibrant ink that produces beautiful and lasting results on the proper substrates and after a few washings a 60/40 poly/cotton blend white T shows a very pleasing distressed look.
Not quite accurate. It depends how you do it. Our 100% cotton shirts are still showing the sublimated colour image if you turn the shirt inside out, faintly more or less as it does on our polyester shirts. We don't spray the stuff on top of the garment, we saturate it 'into' the cotton. If you can't see the print on the inside - you didn't do it right.
This is probably right. After a little over 100 washes they still look pretty much the same as the first week, but I'm guessing if pushed to a few hundred washes they might start to fade.
What we can't prevent is the distressed look because just like polyester, the dye doesn't penetrate 100%. Unlike polyester, cotton fibres are soft and fluffy and the more times a shirt is hot washed and tumble dried, the more of these little fibres get brushed up.
But the look is pleasing and my two favourite shirts (worn at least twice a week since Jan or Feb this year) are sublimated into 100% cotton. The photos are on the forum. The info on how I did it is on the forum. And no matter how I look at it, it is still only a hobby project.
Until someone comes up with a better saturation product, it is still not commercially viable.
However the subbed cotton is outlasting screen printed, heat transfer and DTG, so I guess some time, somewhere, somebody will get the formula right.
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