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A fun experiment with the Neoflex....

5.9K views 27 replies 13 participants last post by  BML Builder  
#1 ·
I still have a lot more testing to do with this process, but yesterday I was at the shop until 2am doing a dry-run of something we've wanted to try for a long time..... My production manager and I spent hours measuring, adjusting and aligning things, just to find out if this would even be possible or not.

After last night's dry-run, things look very promising! Due to the platen height on our automatic screen press, we had to take the wheels off the Neoflex so the printer would be at the correct height. Additionally, we spent some time adjusting the screen press as much as we could, to get the platen as close to the print head as possible (without risking damage). It actually took us quite a bit of time to move the Neoflex from the DTG room to the screen printing room, as we disassembled it and then reassembled it by the press; we also had to maneuver around other equipment to get where we needed to go. Ultimately, we decided it would be easier to change our setup a little bit, but we will setup up again and re-test another day.

Here are some pictures of the setup - you can obviously see what we are trying to do:

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Sorry for the blurry pics - it was late and we were tired. To register the color layer to the screen printed base, we first loaded a white shirt and printed the same image we used to burn the screen. The idea is to then line up the screen with this printed image, using the registration marks; from there is would be easy to change the image out with the color version and print it directly on a plastisol or discharge under base. You can see we were a little too far away from the print head (plus we were just going for registration so we printed the test layer at 360 x 360); in order to get good registration, we knew we would have to make some changes to our setup and we were way too tired at this point. By the time we finally knew what we were doing, it was late and I had to head home; much more testing will be coming in the next few days.....

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We have an order of 300 dark colored t-shirts coming in, and others for 100 or more - if we could screen print the white base, that would make the cost more competitive. I have a client who orders some stuff DTG (one-offs) and some stuff screen printed; it would be nice if all of their screen printed stuff could have the color layers digitally printed, so the prints look the same no matter how they are ordered (one-off or bulk). This process has a lot of potential, and the way the Neoflex is built makes this a relatively easy thing to attempt; the moving printer design is ideal for this setup. I appreciate all the hard work of all the folks who have been working dilligently in the main thread, concerning DTG / Screen Printing hybrid setups - I have learned most of what I know from following their amazing efforts. Thanks again, guys!

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t154138.html

I will keep everyone posted as we have more time to test this.
 
#4 ·
#5 · (Edited)
Justin,

I think this will be an easy transition for you!! especially with the solvent option on the neo!! wait till you see a solvent print on regular plastisol, they really pop!! at least this is the case with the inks randy used and the samples he sent!!

Im going to try the blackbyrd white underbase aswell (used with brother inks) it doesnt require a flash from what i understand.. very cool stuff..

Is that an auto press or semi auto with foot control? dont want to send the neo on an unexpected merry go round ride with the wrong timing:)

P.S looks like you had a little magenta spill on the printer:D
 
#6 ·
LOL yes we have had a number of spills over the months.... :D I am very interested in the solvent inks, although I have concerns about longevity. Has anyone used the inks on a shirt, and gone outside for prolonged periods of time? From what I understand the solvent inks are great for indoor use, but are not designed for use outdoors (at least the solvent inks sold by AA); I have no other experience with them, so I can't say for sure! Maybe the inks aren't meant for "long term" use, outdoors; compared to the washability of traditional DTG inks, maybe it is still an overall improvement?

The press is semi-auto, so we can keep it from flying around unexpectedly! It is nice that the Neoflex print head unit moves, because it makes this setup possible; once the print head moves to the back of the machine, the table can rotate and we can bring it forward again! I am still not a fan of putting DTG printers in a screen printing environment, so I don't think this will be my long-term solution..... Just doing a little bit of testing; I want to do my part to contribute! :)

Keep us posted on your results, after you try Robert's inks!
 
#8 · (Edited)
LOL yes we have had a number of spills over the months.... :D I am very interested in the solvent inks, although I have concerns about longevity. Has anyone used the inks on a shirt, and gone outside for prolonged periods of time? From what I understand the solvent inks are great for indoor use, but are not designed for use outdoors (at least the solvent inks sold by AA); I have no other experience with them, so I can't say for sure! Maybe the inks aren't meant for "long term" use, outdoors; compared to the washability of traditional DTG inks, maybe it is still an overall improvement?

The press is semi-auto, so we can keep it from flying around unexpectedly! It is nice that the Neoflex print head unit moves, because it makes this setup possible; once the print head moves to the back of the machine, the table can rotate and we can bring it forward again! I am still not a fan of putting DTG printers in a screen printing environment, so I don't think this will be my long-term solution..... Just doing a little bit of testing; I want to do my part to contribute! :)

Keep us posted on your results, after you try Robert's inks!
Justin,

Randy will be your best resource regarding the ecosolve ink questions dtg experimentation, I havnt a clue!!.. Or i should say i have not had the guts to test it in my current printers..lol he just sent me a vid yesterday with an ecosolve printing in a 1400!! the samples he sent me done this way have been washed many times and have held up awesome.. I think he has used different ecosolve inks during his testing so im not sure which brand was on the sample i have..

I know they print ecosolvent to the vinyl heat transfers and i dont see this being any different than printing to plastisol which is pvc (poly vinyl chloride) If you have any scrap pvc plumbing around try this for an example "take a sharpie or solvent ink and mark on it, then take a heat gun to it for a few seconds at 275 degrees" now try and get the mark or ink off:D its not going to happen they now have become one..

the issue is being able to print to white shirts with ecosolve, this raises questions on the process without seperate printers.. not to mention any eco friendly safety concerns:confused: I have read that ecosolvent/solvent requires flushing and has higher head clog issues? not sure but im not brave enough yet to try it ( i have donated my share to the epson print head factory..:D) prolly put the east wing on it..:)
 
#14 ·
It will not be hard to synchronize Screen printer(SP) and NeoFlex. So SP not took off while NeoFlex printing finish.
All are money talks. There were few who tried this concept before but no one cashed in. Screen print white and special effects with dual CYMK NeoFlex will make some business sense. Kornit has this unit for market now without great success. One of customer of AA in Vietnam have couple of this system (Victorian secret printer) on their MHM and have not have good time at all. Biggest company in SP also tried this concept and they fold before even launch. Justin, I give lots of credit and lots of cheers to you. Among all Epson modified machines NeoFlex is only one who can try this concept is so sure. Maybe not~
Cheers! I will be stuck with TSF all day. Not much to do in East. Police are arresting people who drive around with 4x4 for joy.
 
#15 ·
There are lots of different types of Solvent / Eco Solvent inks, most true Solvent inks will destroy the Epson head (and a lot of other parts), the original EcoSolvent was developed by Epson and sold by Roland, Mutoh etc..
It was designed with a small amount of solvent that wouldnt damage an Epson head, give a light 2-3 years outdoor durability. The machines (including the Epson GS6000) while they use the Epson head have quite a few other modifications such as different dampers for the EcoSolvent ink (from Epson UltraChrome and other indoor inks sets) to work correctly but there are litterally 1000's of customers who are using these machines (mainly Versacamms) to print onto heat transfer vinyl for t-shirts. These wash very well.

The 3rd party market has developed lots of EcoSolvent / Solvent inks for Epson desktops for different markets (NeoFlex, DCS both have substrate Solvents), but these solvents are designed for a different kind of surface to the Ecosolvent used in a Roland (which is designed for Vinyl). Are generally not as light fast and more agressive.

For plastisol you would probably find an Eco Solvent such as the Roland / Mutoh or 3rd party equivalents would be better (and safer), but you need to find one that is Epson desktop frendly as most are tested in Rolands and as I said these are modified.
I know of several tests where they used the Epson Eco solvents in Epson desktop machines such as 4800/4880 and it worked great for 4-6 weeks and then bad things started to happen....

Best regards

-David
 
#16 ·
David,
I cannot agree more with your statement. As a modifier we face many huddles people do not understand in depth. Especially on solvent area. We gave up some benefit and gain some benefit to using solvent ink. So many tests over years, this convinced me nothing is done by overnight in printing industry. Modified 4880 base printer was not good as now at the beginning and now it is near to no-complain stage. Because we all keep working for better solution. All future machines will be follow this step is no brainer. Mine or others all.
There are no magic printer "do all" regardless what printhead and ink they use.
I am so sorry I missed our appointment at Hamburg. My excuse is only one "too much beer". I did not know how to apologize to you. I take this place to say "I am sorry." Maybe next? I hope. If we drink together there will be no missing appointment, right?
 
#17 ·
On Testing the color fastness of neosol outdoors - I am currently doing this.

Colors last about a week (Faded approx 50% in 7 days...75% gone after 11 days, continuing to fade). Black still looks good after 11 days (so far) - Maybe 15-20% Faded. These were printed on White Coroplast (Corrugated Plastic), and are facing East & West in full sun in Ohio.
 
#18 ·
Needless to test it. We already did all. It does not pass our standard for saying out door purpose. Only way to extend out door life is pretreat and overcoat with UV blocker spray.(home-depot). Coroplast is worse thing to print on and most popular media. 18"x24" is standard cut. We are also working on this. Too many projects ---.:(
But aren't you glad we are working on it? :)
 
#28 ·
I definitely have to agree with this!! We work with a lot of Realtors and also use the 18X24 coroplast but we put the eco-solvent print on vinyl then on the coraplast. We would love to be able to print directly onto the coroplast, but we don't want to pay the price they want for the flatbed printers out there right now.