I would like to know the reasons that you all bought your t-jet or dtg printers. I don't care about brands specifically. I'm just trying to justify the cost. If my wife and I can produce the same quality with sublimation and plastisol transfers and an automatic press, and get the same quality and produce around 40 shirts an hour, why bother with a dtg printer when I still have to load the shirt and then heat press it after its done printing? What is there to justify the price tag. The only thing that really appeals to me is that you can do the different substrates on the same machine, but I already have a mug press and a cap press. Please help.
tim3560
Why buy a DTG printer?
It may not be the machine for you. It's not a perfect fit for everybody
That being said, I'd love to hear some of the pros/cons as to why people purchased theirs if they were in a similar situation as Tim.
From what I can tell, it's pretty specific, and really depends on both how much volume you do and what types of shirts you do.
I haven't personally used a DTG printer, but I'd say they would be quite handy for small to medium sized runs (large runs would be better screen printed, even with colors most likely) of complex designs (vinyl can't match), multi-color (plastisol can't match cheaply), mid-color or dark shirts (heat transfers won't be able to except for low-quality opaques), an end product with a soft hand (normal heat transfers probably won't match), and on cotton t-shirts (dye sub won't be able to match).
Basically, some combination of factors might make it worth it to some people. There are a few areas it excels at that other methods don't quite match, but for a lot of t-shirt work it wouldn't be worth it and could be better done in another way.
I haven't personally used a DTG printer, but I'd say they would be quite handy for small to medium sized runs (large runs would be better screen printed, even with colors most likely) of complex designs (vinyl can't match), multi-color (plastisol can't match cheaply), mid-color or dark shirts (heat transfers won't be able to except for low-quality opaques), an end product with a soft hand (normal heat transfers probably won't match), and on cotton t-shirts (dye sub won't be able to match).
Basically, some combination of factors might make it worth it to some people. There are a few areas it excels at that other methods don't quite match, but for a lot of t-shirt work it wouldn't be worth it and could be better done in another way.
Ok here is why I picked mine up (I have a tjet2)
Reasons:
>>>I run my Internet t-shirt biz from my home so I do not have lots of room for inventory, with dtg printing I can do one offs, this lets me keep a low inventory of shirts.
>>>My printer and heat press take up a 6x6 foot area, this is ideal for me.
>>>Although cafepress and other companies of the sort provide a great service I want to keep more profit and have more flexibility in my designs (I can print over collars and seams with my T-jet)
>>>I can print on terrycloth and golf balls with the tjet.
Reasons:
>>>I run my Internet t-shirt biz from my home so I do not have lots of room for inventory, with dtg printing I can do one offs, this lets me keep a low inventory of shirts.
>>>My printer and heat press take up a 6x6 foot area, this is ideal for me.
>>>Although cafepress and other companies of the sort provide a great service I want to keep more profit and have more flexibility in my designs (I can print over collars and seams with my T-jet)
>>>I can print on terrycloth and golf balls with the tjet.
yes, you have to have a special nontextile pre and post treatment but you can do it and it looks pretty good. I can print like 38 at a time
Why I didn't buy one (yet)
About 90% of my screen printing sales are on dark garments. I'm waiting for the technology to make white ink consistent and reliable.
I would buy one if I had enough sales of lower qty runs. I see DTG fitting in under the 4c screen printing on light garments. DTG would also work well in the one-up personalized market. You bring in a photo, I'll put it on a T-shirt while you wait.
About 90% of my screen printing sales are on dark garments. I'm waiting for the technology to make white ink consistent and reliable.
I would buy one if I had enough sales of lower qty runs. I see DTG fitting in under the 4c screen printing on light garments. DTG would also work well in the one-up personalized market. You bring in a photo, I'll put it on a T-shirt while you wait.
Can Someone mention about the quality of the print please, maybe no the best for whites but what about a 4 color print (A simple solid 4 color seperated image) done on Sreen print and DTG, what do you say about the print quality, which is better on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the best.
I still prefer screen printing. I would give screen printing a 10 and a DTG a 6-8 depending on the machine and operator.
Tks Rodney, hope others who are using the DTGs could share their views on this, appreciate it,
A view from the other side!
First, a qualifier - I am a DTG distributor, I have over 16 years experience in the decorated apparel and graphics markets and I stayed at a Holiday in Express last night!
Direct to Gartment will replace screen printing when the marketplace demands that it do so. The common mistake I see is that people arr trying to compare direct to garment output with screen printing output (on the exact same piece of artwork). Direct to garment excels in high color images, as more and more artists become empowered and begin to design for direct to garment (as opposed to designing for the limited colors of screen printing) we will see the market begin to shift faster. No doubt the costs of output are currently higher than screen printing on a per shirt basis, but, as more and more cities, counties and states begin to regulate the wastes produced by traditional screen printing more and more folks will switch to the environmentally friendly direct to garment process. This process may take 2 years it make take 20 years, but it will happen.
As an apparel decorator the benefit to direct to garment now is in the short run and/or high color marketplace. The sooner you begin to educate your customer base about direct to garment, the sooner you can begin making money on this form of garment decoration. The longer you delay, the more likely that the guy down the street will educate your customer for you and force your hand.
JMHO
First, a qualifier - I am a DTG distributor, I have over 16 years experience in the decorated apparel and graphics markets and I stayed at a Holiday in Express last night!
Direct to Gartment will replace screen printing when the marketplace demands that it do so. The common mistake I see is that people arr trying to compare direct to garment output with screen printing output (on the exact same piece of artwork). Direct to garment excels in high color images, as more and more artists become empowered and begin to design for direct to garment (as opposed to designing for the limited colors of screen printing) we will see the market begin to shift faster. No doubt the costs of output are currently higher than screen printing on a per shirt basis, but, as more and more cities, counties and states begin to regulate the wastes produced by traditional screen printing more and more folks will switch to the environmentally friendly direct to garment process. This process may take 2 years it make take 20 years, but it will happen.
As an apparel decorator the benefit to direct to garment now is in the short run and/or high color marketplace. The sooner you begin to educate your customer base about direct to garment, the sooner you can begin making money on this form of garment decoration. The longer you delay, the more likely that the guy down the street will educate your customer for you and force your hand.
JMHO
I am a relative newcomer to the garment decorating business, but chose DTG for a few reasons. I should point out that we are primarily a custom embroidery business, but shirt printing is growing. I looked at heat transfer and sublimation as alternatives but ultimately decided DTG was the best solution for my business. A few reasons:
1. I can always make more money by doing something myself rather than paying someone else to do it for me. I had no intentions of buying/learning the screen printing equipment and placing it in my retail store.
2. We are a retail store and get a lot of walk-ins. We are able to sell DTG because of the quick turn times.
3. As Don said so well, no limitations on the design
4. Short runs are not a problem. Want just one - can do easy!
5. We can easily customize each shirt! For instance, we have done family reunion shirts with a common design on the back and individual names on the left chest of each shirt. This was done easily with DTG and impresses the heck out of customers.
6. We have an outside sales rep that takes prototype shirts to prospective customers. If they like it, we just print more of them as the prototype is the actual product.
7. We build custom web sites for our larger clients and allow them to order and customize designs online. We don't have to stock inventory as we print on demand.
8. Wearability/Durability - There is no 'hand' to the DTG print - you simply can't feel it like screenprinting. Landscapers love that fact given it is near 100 degrees in the summer here and very humid - large screenprints on the backs of their shirts make them hot! It washes/irons well too.
9. I'm a techno geek and easily drawn to new technologies!
My biggest concern going into this was the whole 'no white ink' thing. The Brother simply doesn't have it yet and no matter how hard you try you're not going to print with an ink that isn't darker than the garment itself. This has not been a problem for us. We offer several pastel colors (blue/grey/sand/pink/yellow/etc) of shirts and they have been extremely popular. When a customer demands a dark shirt, I send that to my screen printer and just make less on that sale. White inks are available on several DTG printers, and will most likely be on all of them in the near future, so this limitation will soon be gone. I am very happy with our printer. I expected the payback to be several years on this piece of equipment - it looks like it will pay for itself in less than one year!
1. I can always make more money by doing something myself rather than paying someone else to do it for me. I had no intentions of buying/learning the screen printing equipment and placing it in my retail store.
2. We are a retail store and get a lot of walk-ins. We are able to sell DTG because of the quick turn times.
3. As Don said so well, no limitations on the design
4. Short runs are not a problem. Want just one - can do easy!
5. We can easily customize each shirt! For instance, we have done family reunion shirts with a common design on the back and individual names on the left chest of each shirt. This was done easily with DTG and impresses the heck out of customers.
6. We have an outside sales rep that takes prototype shirts to prospective customers. If they like it, we just print more of them as the prototype is the actual product.
7. We build custom web sites for our larger clients and allow them to order and customize designs online. We don't have to stock inventory as we print on demand.
8. Wearability/Durability - There is no 'hand' to the DTG print - you simply can't feel it like screenprinting. Landscapers love that fact given it is near 100 degrees in the summer here and very humid - large screenprints on the backs of their shirts make them hot! It washes/irons well too.
9. I'm a techno geek and easily drawn to new technologies!
My biggest concern going into this was the whole 'no white ink' thing. The Brother simply doesn't have it yet and no matter how hard you try you're not going to print with an ink that isn't darker than the garment itself. This has not been a problem for us. We offer several pastel colors (blue/grey/sand/pink/yellow/etc) of shirts and they have been extremely popular. When a customer demands a dark shirt, I send that to my screen printer and just make less on that sale. White inks are available on several DTG printers, and will most likely be on all of them in the near future, so this limitation will soon be gone. I am very happy with our printer. I expected the payback to be several years on this piece of equipment - it looks like it will pay for itself in less than one year!
Don and mike, tks so mcuh for those points, but one particulart point is still not very clear to me, maybe I just want it in plain words........ how is the color to color comparison? for instance one color prints only..........
Red to red
Blue to blue
Green to Green..........
Does DTG give you the same bright colors as the image on the screen or slightly dull, maybe a shade? unlike the screen print...............what you see(mix) is what you get (the Print).
Red to red
Blue to blue
Green to Green..........
Does DTG give you the same bright colors as the image on the screen or slightly dull, maybe a shade? unlike the screen print...............what you see(mix) is what you get (the Print).
Rizzo,
First let me say that I like screenprinting - the guys that do that are truly artisans and I have seen some amazing work from them. I use whichever technology makes sense for each project. Which looks better is purely subjective (PC vs Mac, Coke vs Pepsi, Taste Great, Less Filling...) and a religious discussion. This is probably a poor analogy, but does putting wallpaper over a porous wall look better than painting the same wall? Some people would say yes, as it yields a more uniform overlay. If I have a design that calls for a lot of a single color with a relatively low dpi image (72 dpi), I will consider that for screenprinting, or even cut a vinyl transfer. Since I'm in analogy mode, I have a color printer and a b/w laser in my office. When I want to print a b/w invoice I could print it on my color printer, but I don't. Why? The laser is designed for such a task and I don't want to tie up my color printer or waste the ink on that job. Likewise, I reserve my DTG printer for designs with lots of color and higher resolution (600dpi). The printer offers settings for vividness (0 -4) and ink volume (1-10). I normally operate it at vivid=1 and volume=7. If color was a problem I would set that puppy at the max (vivid=4 and volume=10), or even use its double print mode where it prints the design twice. The colors do look a little softer as they are part of the fabric and not laid on top of it, so you get a textured look. Again, some may not like this but others prefer it. Most of our designs have lots of color/detail to leverage the technology - that's why we get repeat business from customers who like our work. The paradigm is shifting, and we are trying our best to not do things 'the way they have always been done'.
As Mr Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that!"
First let me say that I like screenprinting - the guys that do that are truly artisans and I have seen some amazing work from them. I use whichever technology makes sense for each project. Which looks better is purely subjective (PC vs Mac, Coke vs Pepsi, Taste Great, Less Filling...) and a religious discussion. This is probably a poor analogy, but does putting wallpaper over a porous wall look better than painting the same wall? Some people would say yes, as it yields a more uniform overlay. If I have a design that calls for a lot of a single color with a relatively low dpi image (72 dpi), I will consider that for screenprinting, or even cut a vinyl transfer. Since I'm in analogy mode, I have a color printer and a b/w laser in my office. When I want to print a b/w invoice I could print it on my color printer, but I don't. Why? The laser is designed for such a task and I don't want to tie up my color printer or waste the ink on that job. Likewise, I reserve my DTG printer for designs with lots of color and higher resolution (600dpi). The printer offers settings for vividness (0 -4) and ink volume (1-10). I normally operate it at vivid=1 and volume=7. If color was a problem I would set that puppy at the max (vivid=4 and volume=10), or even use its double print mode where it prints the design twice. The colors do look a little softer as they are part of the fabric and not laid on top of it, so you get a textured look. Again, some may not like this but others prefer it. Most of our designs have lots of color/detail to leverage the technology - that's why we get repeat business from customers who like our work. The paradigm is shifting, and we are trying our best to not do things 'the way they have always been done'.
As Mr Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that!"
Thanks mike, That makes sense, the line that answered my question totally would be "The colors do look a little softer as they are part of the fabric and not laid on top of it, so you get a textured look. "
Move with the flow, yeah?
Move with the flow, yeah?
Rizzo,
Sorry for the delay in responding, I was away at the ISS Show in Orlando.
To answer your question, no, the colors are not as "shiny" as plastisol, it is in essence melted plastic and will always be shiny, that is also what gives it such a heavy hand, which many people do not like. I do not advocate buying a direct to garment printer if you intend on trying to reproduce monotone or 2-3 spot color work in large volumes, let the screen printers do what they do best. I would, however, encourage you to offer those customers full color as an option (at a higher price) and let them make the decision. May customers request screen printing because they don't realize the full color is a viable option.
Hope this helps
Sorry for the delay in responding, I was away at the ISS Show in Orlando.
To answer your question, no, the colors are not as "shiny" as plastisol, it is in essence melted plastic and will always be shiny, that is also what gives it such a heavy hand, which many people do not like. I do not advocate buying a direct to garment printer if you intend on trying to reproduce monotone or 2-3 spot color work in large volumes, let the screen printers do what they do best. I would, however, encourage you to offer those customers full color as an option (at a higher price) and let them make the decision. May customers request screen printing because they don't realize the full color is a viable option.
Hope this helps
has anyone done a quick comparison between heat transfers and direct to garment printing in terms of colors and cost wise ? thx !
regardless of the cost, as far as I can say.. heat press will always leave a white border when you use transfers, this probably is the major difference than the price as it is printed on a special paper and not directly on the garment like screen printing, this way ........ maybe the price factor is not truly comparable
I also like the idea of taking the dtg to shows and printing custom shirts on site. I think customers at a car show would get a kick out of having their car and themselves on a shirt, and being able to get the shirt printed there at the show. Has anyone taken their dtg on the road? How does it handle while traveling?
I have been doing some research into this. I have recieved sample shirts from the company (fast T-jet 2). I have gone to the local mall and had shirts made. My company does preprint designs. I thought, "WOW! Wouldn't it be great to print this guys full color designs with out the hassle of screen printing it." If you have been into screen printing you know what I mean about trying to do do process colors.
The DTG systems not the brand name DTG but all of them. Are mainly for people wanting to make tshirts but do not have the ability to print real shirts. It does a beautiful color. Can print on black. But everyone seems to fail to mention that the Fast T-jet has about 8 washes before it starts crackling. The prints on white start fading after about 10 washes. oh yeah you can wash the shirts 30 times but by then there is hardly a design left on a black shirt.
A good screen printer can do a quality white shirt with a good soft hand. Crappy people do not take the time and effort to do a good job. I have softhand shirts I printed 7 years ago that the shirts have holes in them and the print still looks good.
But I have to admit. When someone comes to me and says.... "Ummm hey I would like to get 6 shirts of this printed for a concert tomorrow." Yeah that is when I wish I dumped $15,000 into a printer. But then again. I am not in a mall kiosk. Heck I wish people would stop asking me to print shirts for them. I can hardly get my own printed.
So base it on what yu want to do. If you have a fistfull of $1,000 bills and want to start a business. The fast T-jet is for you.
What does it take to pay one of these bad puppies off. Lets say you spend $15,000 on one. To pay it off in 5 years you have to make $3000 a year in profit off the one machine (remember this is not including over head and stuff. This is solely pure profit from the machine being poured back into the machine.) so that means that everyday you have to make $8.43 in profit. So above cost of ink and the shirts $8.43 of pure profit. So you would have to sell like a shirt for $20 everyday for 5 years. And that is not making you a dime.
Thats cost comparison if you ask me.
The DTG systems not the brand name DTG but all of them. Are mainly for people wanting to make tshirts but do not have the ability to print real shirts. It does a beautiful color. Can print on black. But everyone seems to fail to mention that the Fast T-jet has about 8 washes before it starts crackling. The prints on white start fading after about 10 washes. oh yeah you can wash the shirts 30 times but by then there is hardly a design left on a black shirt.
A good screen printer can do a quality white shirt with a good soft hand. Crappy people do not take the time and effort to do a good job. I have softhand shirts I printed 7 years ago that the shirts have holes in them and the print still looks good.
But I have to admit. When someone comes to me and says.... "Ummm hey I would like to get 6 shirts of this printed for a concert tomorrow." Yeah that is when I wish I dumped $15,000 into a printer. But then again. I am not in a mall kiosk. Heck I wish people would stop asking me to print shirts for them. I can hardly get my own printed.
So base it on what yu want to do. If you have a fistfull of $1,000 bills and want to start a business. The fast T-jet is for you.
What does it take to pay one of these bad puppies off. Lets say you spend $15,000 on one. To pay it off in 5 years you have to make $3000 a year in profit off the one machine (remember this is not including over head and stuff. This is solely pure profit from the machine being poured back into the machine.) so that means that everyday you have to make $8.43 in profit. So above cost of ink and the shirts $8.43 of pure profit. So you would have to sell like a shirt for $20 everyday for 5 years. And that is not making you a dime.
Thats cost comparison if you ask me.
So you say that the BEST quality shirt is accomplished by screenprinting, correct? I've been thinking of how great it would be to be able to print full color designs straight off of the computer but so far it seems like I haven't gotten any orders that couldn't be done with one-color or two-color plastisols or by sublimation. I'll just stick with what I've got at least until they perfect the technology. I certainly don't want customers complaining about the shirt that they loved falling apart after only a few washes! Thanks for your input.
not sure about all of that Harold.
I have not had any problems with customers and shirts "falling apart" you will find that after that initial wash there is not much more fading or falling apart than screen printing, that is assuming that the pretreatment was done correctly.
I have not had any problems with customers and shirts "falling apart" you will find that after that initial wash there is not much more fading or falling apart than screen printing, that is assuming that the pretreatment was done correctly.
Well the crackling... you know where a thick part of a print seperates and flakes off or at least looks like it. I had 2 samples sent. 1 from a sales person. And one directly from the manufacturer. Now if they did not pre-treat the shirts..... I guess its a possibility.
Now I have some pictures. they are in a large format like 3+ megs. But the clearer they are the better the example.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example1.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example2.jpg
These are of a shirt I had made in July of 2006. The image was nice and clear. Grant it its on a ash shirt but still.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example3.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example4.jpg
These are shirts that were made in April of 2005 using an epson printer with standard ink and softhand.org transfer papers. We cut out around the image you may notice a bit of yellowing around the letters. And a whole lots of stains. I wore this shirt every week washing in hot water with bleach. Still holds a great amount of detail.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example5.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example6.jpg
this is a screen printed shirt I bought over 6 years ago notice a tad bit of crackling on the glasses. But the color is still dead on. No fading. This is what we call a well made shirt. The white and back ground red parts are soft the main part of the art is a bit thicker but no where near bullet proof. I think Roger Jennings would be proud of this print. This is what I aspire to print. A good soft hand with color that makes me want to keep it 10 years down the road even if there are fist sized holes under the arms.
Now I have some pictures. they are in a large format like 3+ megs. But the clearer they are the better the example.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example1.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example2.jpg
These are of a shirt I had made in July of 2006. The image was nice and clear. Grant it its on a ash shirt but still.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example3.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example4.jpg
These are shirts that were made in April of 2005 using an epson printer with standard ink and softhand.org transfer papers. We cut out around the image you may notice a bit of yellowing around the letters. And a whole lots of stains. I wore this shirt every week washing in hot water with bleach. Still holds a great amount of detail.
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example5.jpg
http://otakuclothing.com/pics/example6.jpg
this is a screen printed shirt I bought over 6 years ago notice a tad bit of crackling on the glasses. But the color is still dead on. No fading. This is what we call a well made shirt. The white and back ground red parts are soft the main part of the art is a bit thicker but no where near bullet proof. I think Roger Jennings would be proud of this print. This is what I aspire to print. A good soft hand with color that makes me want to keep it 10 years down the road even if there are fist sized holes under the arms.
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