i say it would be more ethics than legality. why would the other company let them have it without paying for their work? is it even watermarked? how well do you know this other business and are y'all on speaking terms?
seems to me the decision is yours.
i don't think i would because it seems the folks don't have much integrity and you will never get loyal business from them anyway. they already cheated one person (his fault or not)

 

Thanks for the thoughts. I think we'll see if we can talk them into creating a new logo instead.

 

Sometimes people get work done in advance and never pay to artist

 

I wouldn't print it.
Someone has gone to the effort of producing it hoping that it is going to lead to a decent order and then got shat on. Tell 'em it's Intellectual Property and you will need to see the license to reproduce it.
Twice in the past I've produced vectors for vehicle decals, printed them on paper and they've wandered off with them never to be seen again, but I have seen my work on a truck!
Everything now gets HEAVILY watermarked.

 

Logo's can be difficult and a massive grey are, as to who owns them. When I create them I do so on the basis that the logo belongs to the client, but I retain ownership until whatever artwork fees have been paid.
How much of the logo is original? I have created many from customers own emblem or artwork, and simply added text or a basic background shape - how much of that logo is mine?

Ethics aside, the fact that you know that the company that created the logo hasn't been paid means that you need some clarification as to the ownership of the logo, and the terms of the agreement between the two parties. You can't claim to be acting in good faith by printing under these circumstances.

 

Do you know the other company? Maybe work something out with them. Charge the customer an extra couple bucks per shirt and send it to the artist in exchange for the logo.

 

ask for the contract when they had the logo created.
If not one than probably not legal to use it as the person or company creating it probably owns the copyright on it.
By not being paid you mean did the work and got no money or did the work but didn't charge for it ?
and quite frankly if they had work done by another company and didn't pay how you know they won't do the same to you. ?

 

I'd steer clear off said client. I've had problems like this is the past! If they've not paid previous client how do you know there going to pay you?

 

^^^Good advice!

You really have to spell it out from the beginning with clients as to ownership of the logo. Usually, my design fee states that I own the logo for my uses of the things I produce (shirts, vehicle lettering, business cards,signs, etc.). If the customer wants the logo for other "uses" (which usually means they're going to take it to a low-ball competitor) the design fee is will be more, same as if they were just hiring me for the logo design and nothing else.

 

Under US copyright law, the original creator of any creative work is the sole proprietor of that work unless the work is sold under a signed agreement, or created under an agreement as work-for-hire. Until the contractual agreement between the client and creator is completed per the terms of the agreement, that artwork remains the property of the creator, and cannot be reproduced in part or whole without infringing upon that creator's copyrights. Knowingly assisting in the infringement of a copyright can be prosecuted under copyright law. It's rare, because such things are difficult to provide enough evidence to prosecute, but it is possible.

What that means for you, is that ethically, you owe it to the folks who created the work to inform them that their erstwhile client is asking you to reproduce the art and find out what's going on. Legally and business-wise; the smart move is to steer clear of the whole mess until you know it's on the level.

 

How did they get the file for the logo if they didn't pay for it? If they have vector art for it chances are they obtained it legally/ ethically because an artist wouldn't send that unless it was paid for. If "all they have" (I've heard that one a million times) is a low resolution jpeg, ask them to send you the original art from the designer and don't settle for "this is all I have."

LOL- "This is all I have" translates as "I don't know what vector means and I don't really care either, so you deal with it because I'm going home."

 

LOL- "This is all I have" translates as "I don't know what vector means and I don't really care either, so you deal with it because I'm going home."

Very true words indeed.
Or it sometimes means 'this is the proof that the mug who designed it sent me'.

 

I don't quite understand how ownership of a logo file in any format, including vector, should constitute the ownership of the logo itself, as some of the posters here seem to imply. The logo is a concept that could be created literally out of thin air but once it's done and materialized it can be recreated by anybody with the skills in whatever format they choose. If I go to BrandsOftheWorld and download all the vectors from there, will I own any of them?

 

The logo is a concept that could be created literally out of thin air but once it's done and materialized it can be recreated by anybody with the skills in whatever format they choose. If I go to BrandsOftheWorld and download all the vectors from there, will I own any of them?

No, a logo is protected by trademark law, so legally you can only reproduce logos with permission from the trademark owner.

Trademark owners become especially concerned about infringement when their logo or trademark is used to make money. So I can download the NHRA logo from Brands of the World but I'm not allowed to sell NHRA T-shirts.

 

I have a question! This is about the only thread I could find. I'm a newbie and I created a logo for a customer and they are now asking me for the logo (I'm pretty sure it's to take it to another screen printer to make t-shirts)

How do you all respectfully respond "no" to your customers when they ask? Or do you send to them and charge?

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks!

 

I used to have problems telling a client "no" A) because nobody wants to hear it and B) I was terrified to lose the work. I trained myself to come up with ways to avoid having to tell a potential client or an existing one, "no". I came up with a way that works for me without me feeling like a bad guy. Or worse, me doing major work and not getting paid for it.

RULE 1: I do NOT release anything near reproducible (without watermarks, high res) until it's been paid for in full. I think most of us have learned this the hard way.

I also learned to ask what the final use is for whatever I create. Example: are they going to use ME to adapt and print the work on various items (my income) or will they simply take it to someone else to do it? I charge full boat for both, BUT if they order (and pay for) a specific dollar amount of printed items, I will discount them a specific amount. If they don't order from me, then I've gotten paid for the work and it's all fine. Again, I learned the hard way and made me heartless, lol. I hope this helps someone.

 

Well I look at this question from a slightly different slant........If I am printing shirts or embroidering a logo sometimes I don't charge for the logo creation for "me" to use. The customer did not pay for anything other than the shirts they received. They don't pay for the .dst or vector art, they don't get it. In 20 years I have only had to explain that concept twice. Once the guy stated upfront he wanted the file when done so he got a floppy with a .dst on it, the second 5 years after the job was completed he came back and wanted art. That was pretty simple too "you didn't pay for any artwork, sorry". Since both can be uncomfortable confrontations I have now started to charge for digitizing and artwork. We keep on file for three years. If they want it great, if not, ok also. After three years it's gone. We get paid upfront. I'm not working for free. Just my opinions.

 

I would avoid printing this logo on any items for the customer without proof of who owns the logo. Dealing with copyright issues further down the line would be a huge mess. I am also careful of dealing with anyone I know does not pay other vendors because that leaves a question as to whether they will pay me. It stinks to have to decline the order, but in the long run it is better for business.

 

the point i wonted to make is, that maybe person has vector of logo, but that doesn't mean that he payed for it...

 

There is only so much you can do. For us, the odds someone has a vector format graphics and does not "own" it is small. Sure there are exceptions to the rule but again if a designer sends a vector file to someone that has not paid for it shame on the designer and they only have themselves to blame.

 

people are very creative in their manipulations, and prey, they do find
i would not always blame the prey in this situation

if we lose all faith in all humanity, then the world becomes dark
not my kind of place

i'd rather be sporadically burnt than never trust another soul again

 

One of my life stories. Is it my fault that I was burned? Yes it was

I had a friend. Girl from the pet food and accessories store. Her father was the owner and she helped there so business can run. In that time I was without money. I had a dog, I still have that dog actually and I was buying food there. In that time I was totally broke and I couldn't get a job. She knowed that, so she helped me how much she could. We didn't have anything romantic so you guys don't start confuse things

She gave me food for free for my dog(samples of food), but she gave me the whole bags of it. When I bought dog food, he sold me without profit for her father business. And she took me to launch from time to time to a place where we ordered food(restaurant). She didn't have lots of money, cause her father didn't pay her for help. Family business, father made her, she don't get paid.

That time I was struggling how to survive each day and I didn't wont to be in a burden to my parents. I also didn't have money for legit business, cause in my country we have few crappy laws. For example: you need to pay you country each month some money, no matter if you earned something or not.

She started to date that guy, which was businessman and he was in a process to open disco. That guy was very nice and he gave impression that he is not a crook. Cause that girl knowed what kinda situation I am in, she tried to set up me and her boyfriend to work together. The guy needed logo and few other stuff. I made a logo, guy disappeared when he got it, they broke up one week after that happened and disco was huge success.

Is it my fault? Sure it is. I trusted that the guy with bunch of money won't run away cause of one lousy logo... But even if I had contract I didn't have money to take this to the court. And civil court in my country takes ages. And for one logo? Not worth it. It was a good lesson.

It's true you need to release vector after you get payed, but they can just take idea which you made and showed on jpg and his son,or his nephew copy that in one of the software...