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Discuss water base and discharge screen printing inks and curing methods. Share tips on getting the best results with the different ink manufacturers.



White ink going through shirt onto platen. How to fix?

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Old October 10th, 2018 Oct 10, 2018 7:59:32 AM -   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: White ink going through shirt onto platen. How to fix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TABOB
If it goes trough the screen then it is OK.




Eh... Where do you expect the ink to go with all that pressure? It will go down until there is too much resistance, and then it will go sideways.

Here is what I do for those thin fabrics that want to leak through. This works with any ink thickness, as the basic concept is controlling the ink flow.

1. Try pushing the print stroke with 30-35 degrees angle, and light pressure... Just enough so the mesh is touching the fabric.

2. Lift the screen and check the result. You do not want to see much ink on the shirt at this point. Then try again with a bit more pressure, until you get a light even coat.

3. Flash and print again with the same pressure, and you should now have a decent print on the top layer of the fabric.
@TABOB Thanks for the great advice!
I will try this in the next few hours! This will help me figure out what pressure works well for my setup and help me develop a "finesse" with the amount of pressure I should use. For some reason I thought I needed to clear the mesh on my first stroke for a good print, so I developed the habit of using heavy pressure. After posting this question, I started using less pressure and have seen an improvement in my prints. I think your tip of starting light and increasing until the coverage looks right is a great way to figure out the right pressure I should be using!
 
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Old October 10th, 2018 Oct 10, 2018 3:30:31 PM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: White ink going through shirt onto platen. How to fix?

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Originally Posted by embprints
...I definitely want to try the other Supercover colors mainly because of that fact that an underbase is not needed on dark shirts. I wonder if the same is true for the other GG colors.
Nope, the Comet White is the only GG available as an opaque ink, so have to do the traditional underbase route with them.

@porkchopharry is who turned me on to the idea of using a higher mesh count. He was mostly using 180. Since I was having such troubles with 156, I decided to bump it all the way up to 200. But 90+ percent of my problem was simply down to not keeping the ink wet enough ... I just didn't know it at the time.
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Old October 10th, 2018 Oct 10, 2018 3:36:07 PM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: White ink going through shirt onto platen. How to fix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by embprints
@TABOB Thanks for the great advice!
I will try this in the next few hours! This will help me figure out what pressure works well for my setup and help me develop a "finesse" with the amount of pressure I should use. For some reason I thought I needed to clear the mesh on my first stroke for a good print, so I developed the habit of using heavy pressure. After posting this question, I started using less pressure and have seen an improvement in my prints. I think your tip of starting light and increasing until the coverage looks right is a great way to figure out the right pressure I should be using!
And by flashing once you achieve a light even coat, there is a barrier so the next hit can't get blasted all the way through the garment.
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Old October 10th, 2018 Oct 10, 2018 7:46:54 PM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: White ink going through shirt onto platen. How to fix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXid
Nope, the Comet White is the only GG available as an opaque ink, so have to do the traditional underbase route with them.

@porkchopharry is who turned me on to the idea of using a higher mesh count. He was mostly using 180. Since I was having such troubles with 156, I decided to bump it all the way up to 200. But 90+ percent of my problem was simply down to not keeping the ink wet enough ... I just didn't know it at the time.
Hmmm...Im seeing so many reasons to use SC! I love the idea of not
needing to use an underbase. That means one less screen to setup.
Even with my old pint of SC, I was able to get a really good print with just p/f/p. With GG, I still have to do p/p/f/p to come close to SC. If that is the case, then the cost of GG ink used per X number of shirts ends up being the same as SC.

I'm actually working on a design to put on my 200 mesh right now. I don't have any emulsion right now so I'm going to use oracal 651 vinyl as a stencil. I've been practicing with a screen that had a design I made 2 years ago. Even though the emulsion has held up really well, it makes more sense to practice with a clean image and screen.

BTW, do you know of an emulsion for water based inks that has a shelf life of more than a couple months even when kept in the fridge? I hate the idea of buying a quart of emulsion, and just using it a few times before it starts to go bad since I don't have any customers needing screen printed shirts...yet.
 
Old October 10th, 2018 Oct 10, 2018 8:57:40 PM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: White ink going through shirt onto platen. How to fix?

You are using the type where you mix Diazo into it to activate it? Yeah, the clock starts ticking on that stuff once it is mixed.

The other type of emulsion is Polymer. It exposes faster, there is nothing to mix/add to it, and it is good for at least a year from its date of manufacture. I use Saati PHU. My current bucket is almost 3 years old (and also about empty). It lasts longer if you keep it in a cool environment (on the concrete floor in my shop).

For use with waterbase inks: Don't go crazy with how thick the coat is, as too thick won't dry/cure right; And post expose the screen--so after exposing and washing out the image, fully dry the screen again and set it out in the sun for a while or toss it on your exposure unit for 3 or 4 times the length of a normal exposure. This ensures that the emulsion is fully exposed all the way through, which increases the durability and reduces the risk of the emulsion getting locked into the screen from undercured emulsion reacting with ink and cleaning chemicals.

If you get the PHU, be sure to get the regular PHU and not the "PHU 2", as the 2 is twice as slow to expose (intended for more exposure latitude on ultra-fast LED units).

With my DIY 1000w metal halide unit, I expose for 24 seconds with regular PHU. On a typical UV tube unit, your time might be about 2 minutes.
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Old October 12th, 2018 Oct 12, 2018 7:07:26 PM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: White ink going through shirt onto platen. How to fix?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXid
You are using the type where you mix Diazo into it to activate it? Yeah, the clock starts ticking on that stuff once it is mixed.

The other type of emulsion is Polymer. It exposes faster, there is nothing to mix/add to it, and it is good for at least a year from its date of manufacture. I use Saati PHU. My current bucket is almost 3 years old (and also about empty). It lasts longer if you keep it in a cool environment (on the concrete floor in my shop).

For use with waterbase inks: Don't go crazy with how thick the coat is, as too thick won't dry/cure right; And post expose the screen--so after exposing and washing out the image, fully dry the screen again and set it out in the sun for a while or toss it on your exposure unit for 3 or 4 times the length of a normal exposure. This ensures that the emulsion is fully exposed all the way through, which increases the durability and reduces the risk of the emulsion getting locked into the screen from undercured emulsion reacting with ink and cleaning chemicals.

If you get the PHU, be sure to get the regular PHU and not the "PHU 2", as the 2 is twice as slow to expose (intended for more exposure latitude on ultra-fast LED units).

With my DIY 1000w metal halide unit, I expose for 24 seconds with regular PHU. On a typical UV tube unit, your time might be about 2 minutes.
Thanks for the reply!
Yes, I use the one where you have to add the diazo. Thank you for suggesting Saati PHU. I am going to give it a try. I found a quart of it for $25 w/ free shipping.

I did some practice prints using SC last night with lots of spraying before, during and after. I feel its a little easier to get good results with SC than with GG. 2 easy hits of SC looks the same as 3-4 hits of GG. But to be fair, I think my GG is bad because it feels so thick and I have to put a lot of effort when flooding. Feels like putty or caulking. My SC even though its the same age of almost 2 years, feels light and fluffy and easy to flood with until it starts to get dry on screen.

Also, I have been getting better results after I started flashing longer between prints. Now I flash until the ink is no longer sticky or tacky but it takes like 3-4 minutes to get there. My hair dryer luckily wont get the ink over 150 deg F, and I assume thats not enough to cure it. I will borrow a heat gun and see how that goes.

Today, I printed a few practice shirts with my possibly bad GG comet white. I sprayed my screen before using, I sprayed the ink before my first print and then sprayed the flooded ink between shirts. This made it more manageable and easier to print with. It also made my prints nicer! I got good even coverage for the most part, to the point where p/f/p was pretty acceptable, but p/f/p/f/p looked good, even, and bright. Thin or small text look great with p/f/p, but the bigger 2+ inch texts is where the difference shows.

I need to stop comparing water based white ink to how my stretch vinyl white looks and feels.

I think I am making lots of progress, but I don't see myself ready to print more than 10 shirts. It probably takes me 10 minutes per shirt right now because of how long it takes to flash and because I am using a DIY one station press. I could try doing a line table setup again, but I didnt get crisp edges on texts like I do now using some Speedball hinge clamps I got long ago. But if you look at my recent posts, until very recently I was averaging 10-15 minutes per vinyl tee but now i can press 20+ per hour. So I cant assume I wont figure a way to screen print more shirts per hour!

I see 12x12 flash dryers on Ebay for $115 shipped, but my $ needs to go to a bigger better heat press first, since vinyl printed tees are still my main business.

I am very grateful for this forum. It has helped me and my business so much!
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