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Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

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Old March 14th, 2015 Mar 14, 2015 11:19:34 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Hi,

I am printing with super cover white Permaset on a black shirt. I have a finer detailed design, so I am using a 200 mesh screen. I was wondering how to go about preventing the ink from getting clogged in the screen? I am flooding. I do a print/flash/print and then, immediately, scrub the screen with soap and water. However, my screen continues to clog more and more with each use, and it also stains the emulsion on the screen white. Any tips would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Old March 15th, 2015 Mar 15, 2015 11:43:37 AM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Are you saying that the screen is clogging AFTER you've finished printing? If that's the case the SC white is the toughest to print with out of all the SC colors I use. I guess because of added pigments? But it's definitely possible to fix your issues.

I usually card out all the ink, then spray the open stencil down with windex/glass cleaner, or a WB screen cleaner if you have one and let it sit a bit. Then take it to the washout booth and spray it out. If you don't have a pressure washer, it's a good investment. I have a cheap one.

You can spray it out with the pressure washer OFF and just the water pressure available through the hose and the pressure washer gun. This sort of allows you to pinpoint any clogs. Really tough clogs might require you to turn the pressure washer on and carefully spray down the stencil.

Really tough clogs might also require you to take a SOFT sponge and rub that area a bit, let it sit for a second or two and then spray out. I use a regular soft, kitchen sponge. I've had to use a white scrubbie before too.

Spraying the screen down, and then taking to the washout area and rinsing with the pressure washer off real quick will eliminate most clogging though.

All of the above is why I recommend using a reclaimable wb stencil hardener on your stencils if you plan on re-using them. It's usually in the washout booth when you're fighting clogs that your stencil will fail on you.

I have staining on the emulsion also. I don't worry about that, it hasn't ever really had any effect on anything in my experience. Other than cosmetics I guess.
 
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Old March 15th, 2015 Mar 15, 2015 1:49:34 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Is your ink getting dried out? I've talked with PCH a bit about printing SC, and I know he adds a little water and stirs it up well before loading the screen, and also mists the screen a little as he is printing if needed.

First time I tried SC, I couldn't get any ink at all to come through the screen
and the ink was all stuck up on my squeegee. A little water makes it handle a lot better.
 
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Old March 15th, 2015 Mar 15, 2015 2:06:57 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

It sounds like his screen his clogging after he's done printing and when he's washing out. Little by little it's becoming more clogged. Seen it happen. Had it happen.

If it's a matter of clogging on press then...work FASTER. And lower the flash temp/flash time. Make sure also that after the first flash, the first layer of ink is dry to the touch before you do the second hit. You don't want it tacky with WB ink.

If I can print this stuff in 90-100+ degree temps (not my favorite thing to do), with minimal clogging...then anyone can.
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Old March 15th, 2015 Mar 15, 2015 5:00:47 PM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Porkchopharry- It seems to be drying after and getting clogged more and more after each use, just like you said.

When you say that you card the ink, do you mean that you scrape the ink through the screen with a credit card type device?

Also, I live in an apartment with no access to an outdoor hose. I have been attaching a 6 foot hose called, Rinse Ace 3025 Snap 'N Spray Quick-Connect & Detachable, to my shower head, and cleaning the screens in a bath tub that I don't use. The water that comes out doesn't have a lot of pressure. You think this is okay, or is there a pressure washer that can be used indoors?

Noxid- I will also try mixing a little bit of water in the ink. The ink is about 8 months old, but has staying in its tight container. It doesn't seem to be dried out, but I will test it out.

Sorry if my questions seem silly, I am new to this.
 
Old March 15th, 2015 Mar 15, 2015 5:26:58 PM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewing830
Porkchopharry- It seems to be drying after and getting clogged more and more after each use, just like you said.

When you say that you card the ink, do you mean that you scrape the ink through the screen with a credit card type device?

Also, I live in an apartment with no access to an outdoor hose. I have been attaching a 6 foot hose called, Rinse Ace 3025 Snap 'N Spray Quick-Connect & Detachable, to my shower head, and cleaning the screens in a bath tub that I don't use. The water that comes out doesn't have a lot of pressure. You think this is okay, or is there a pressure washer that can be used indoors?

That's what I figured.

You're not washing out your screens either quickly, or thoroughly enough...or BOTH.

When I say card the ink out - I mean I use those ink clean-up cards. They're sort of a waste of money though. You can probably be just as effective with an ink knife, etc.

When you finish printing that screen - remove all the ink - spray it down with a bit of glass cleaner and let it soak in a bit (a minute or two). Take to where you wash it out and spray it down with water as best you can.

Hold up the screen to the light and look for clogs. If you see any, spray some more glass cleaner, take a couple kitchen/dish sponges and gently rub BOTH sides of the screen in that area. Let it sit for 30-60 seconds. Rinse and repeat. Try using the shower head thing you have to pinpoint that area. You may have to get up close to the screen with the spray head.

When you are done washing it out and it looks satisfactory. Take a used shirt, or rag, etc and wipe and DRY the screen as thoroughly as you can. Little bits of ink here and there can run down into the stencil and cause clogs too. So you don't want water running down the screen when you set it aside to dry.

You don't necessarily need a pressure washer. But it comes in handy when you have a really stubborn clog.

Again, all of the above is why I recommend a stencil hardener when you are not reclaiming your screens after the print run. I've never had a stencil fail while PRINTING wb ink. But I've had a few fail when you have to get a bit aggressive washing them out. No matter what type of emulsion you are using.

Hope that helps.
 
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Old March 15th, 2015 Mar 15, 2015 8:09:30 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

porkchopharry- One more quick question, when you card the ink out, do you have anything under the screen, like a piece of scrap fabric, or are you just pushing the ink through without printing it?

Thank you so much for your help. It means a lot.
 
Old March 15th, 2015 Mar 15, 2015 8:56:25 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Quote:
Originally Posted by littlewing830
porkchopharry- One more quick question, when you card the ink out, do you have anything under the screen, like a piece of scrap fabric, or are you just pushing the ink through without printing it?

Thank you so much for your help. It means a lot.
It is a scraping off process. You can use the squeegee or those plastic "thingies" one uses to spread bondo work well. It's just to get all the excess ink off that you can (hey, this stuff is expensive!) before you start attacking it with Windex and water.

I scrape the ink off the screen with the squeegee then scrape the ink off the squeegee with a putty knife and scrape that off on the lip of the ink bucket.

The key is to start the cleanup right away, since the residual film of ink on the threads in the open mesh areas dries quickly once it is no longer buried in a flood of ink.
 
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Old March 16th, 2015 Mar 16, 2015 12:02:31 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Yes, carding out the ink = basically just scooping it out of the screen and putting it back in the ink bucket when you're done printing. Try to get as much as you can so you're not wasting ink.

I use a lot of those cake frosting knives actually - pretty cheap on Amazon, etc. The ink clean-up cards are convenient and I use them. But I'm trying to ween myself off of them. Just sort of a waste of materials and money IMHO. But they are nice to have around.
 
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Old March 17th, 2015 Mar 17, 2015 11:43:29 AM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Maybe I'm spoiled (or lazy) but I like being able to leave my screens for a couple hours and come back to them to finish a job....maybe even leave overnight and finish in the morning...that's plastisol. Now I've been giving some thought to trying WB inks but when I keep seeing "You're not washing out your screens either quickly, or thoroughly enough"... "with the pressure washer off real quick"... open mesh areas dries quickly "... then...work FASTER" is giving me second thoughts! LoL.....In my mind I'm seeing that as soon as I print the last shirt don't even take it off the platen but yank the screen and get it to the washout booth pronto...before it dries....realistically, once you print a shirt how long before the ink will dry??? I realize if you get your production running smooth time between shirts is minimal but what about when you have that ooops moment or take a quick potty break? We talking 1 or 2 minutes or 5-10 minutes??? Just curious.
 
Old March 17th, 2015 Mar 17, 2015 12:07:13 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Drying time has a lot to do with your shop environment to be honest. I know the temps in SATX obviously but dunno if you use an AC or not, the time of day you work, etc.

Reality is...working with WB is a lot less mess and to me is actually easier than plastisol. Way less headaches too...literally. For me.

For instance, printing plastisol, I too would leave up screens, or if I was really busy, just pull down a screen and set it aside full of ink, and put another screen up, etc. By the time I "got around" to cleaning all the screens, it was a wreck in the shop.

Not to mention all the screen cleaners and press washes I had to have on hand. I no longer have to buy those any more. And I don't have to deal with them, or smell them.

If you're TRULY lazy, then you might want to look at WB. Because I've found that I have a whole let less shop clean-up to do, I finish earlier and I have more time to spend on new designs, and customer service, etc. Only clean up needed is a quick rinse out of the screens, let them dry a bit and put them back on the shelf.

It all depends on your desired results, and your market also. I do strictly retail with maybe 2 or 3 custom jobs a year, and for me, I have seen sales jump a lot since switching to WB. If you're doing a lot of print jobs and your customers are happy, then maybe you don't need to change?

Personally, I've achieved the print quality I always was pursuing since making the switch. And I find that there is less work to do with WB. There were a few bumps in the road when I made the switch, but I sorted them out within a week or two.
 
Old March 17th, 2015 Mar 17, 2015 1:18:02 PM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Littlewing830
I've been printing with SC for over a year now in my attic this is on 43T screens though. I have only been doing small print runs but after cleaning down and scrapping off the excess ink, I wash out with the shower like yourself. The tip that I can offer is that I have found wiping the screen with a wet wipe works wonders for helping getting the ink off for me.
 
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Old March 17th, 2015 Mar 17, 2015 4:40:30 PM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

Quote:
Originally Posted by porkchopharry
Drying time has a lot to do with your shop environment to be honest. I know the temps in SATX obviously but dunno if you use an AC or not, the time of day you work, etc.

Reality is...working with WB is a lot less mess and to me is actually easier than plastisol. Way less headaches too...literally. For me.

For instance, printing plastisol, I too would leave up screens, or if I was really busy, just pull down a screen and set it aside full of ink, and put another screen up, etc. By the time I "got around" to cleaning all the screens, it was a wreck in the shop.

Not to mention all the screen cleaners and press washes I had to have on hand. I no longer have to buy those any more. And I don't have to deal with them, or smell them.

If you're TRULY lazy, then you might want to look at WB. Because I've found that I have a whole let less shop clean-up to do, I finish earlier and I have more time to spend on new designs, and customer service, etc. Only clean up needed is a quick rinse out of the screens, let them dry a bit and put them back on the shelf.

It all depends on your desired results, and your market also. I do strictly retail with maybe 2 or 3 custom jobs a year, and for me, I have seen sales jump a lot since switching to WB. If you're doing a lot of print jobs and your customers are happy, then maybe you don't need to change?

Personally, I've achieved the print quality I always was pursuing since making the switch. And I find that there is less work to do with WB. There were a few bumps in the road when I made the switch, but I sorted them out within a week or two.
Hi Andy, thanks for the run down. By the way, won't hold going to LA from SA against ya! ) It's obvious you've been there done that, I have about 54 screens waiting for me to reclaim. Weather hasn't been the best lately and I have to go outside to do this chore.
I usually work in the late afternoon and evenings because I have a day job and the shop isn't air conditioned so with a lot of fans running that might be something I have to look at as well so they aren't blowing on the screens? One of the reasons I was considering the WB is I saw this
'Rude Awakening' 7.62 Design Men's T Shirt : Graphite Series T Shirts
and it's artwork similar to what I do and I'm coming up with a similar line for the military here in SA. It says "Boldly screenprinted both front and back with water-based and softened plastisol inks" So that caught my attention. I like the idea of just rinsing and putting on the shelf. My supplier only has Matsui Water Based Inks....any comments on that brand?
Didn't mean to be long winded but appreciate all the insight and suggestions! By the way, how do you like LA?
 
Old March 17th, 2015 Mar 17, 2015 5:29:33 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

It's ok here. A lot different, and way more expensive. I had done pretty much all I could do in SATX, I was a working musician for a lot of years (punk rock days) and I lived there 28 years. I started visiting a girl out here and we eventually got married so...it ended up being a good move for me in the long run.

I've only messed with the Matsui stuff a couple times, it wasn't really high opacity - what I had, so it didn't cover as well on darks. But I mainly do one color prints so I wasn't really wanting to underbase for one color prints. I do a few multi-color prints, but one color prints just seem to sell better.

The SuperCover inks cover well on dark tees with no underbase.

If you're going to do a lot of multi-color prints then matsui stuff might work well for you if you think you'll be underbasing anyway.

You can butt register with WB and even print wet on wet, but it takes a bit of practice to get everything registered real quickly.

I don't have any fans pointing at me. And it gets HOT here. Like it'll hit 120+++ in the shop in Summer. So I try to start real early and finish real early. Or print late at night. But this has basically become a career for me so I prefer to start early and finish early. Then fold, pack and ship. Use the rest of my day to tend to the other 5 million things you have to handle with any "growing" business.
 
Old March 20th, 2015 Mar 20, 2015 3:00:39 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ink drying in 200 mesh with permaset supercover

I noticed today by chance that Franmar AquaWash does a really good job at removing those "ink stains" on the emulsion that the OP mentioned.

I'm not sure why I used the Aquawash today I have a gallon of it, but don't use it too often, maybe I put my Windex somewhere else.

Anyway, I used it and while windex/glass cleaner does a great job at cleaning the mesh and clogs, the Aquawash really did a great job at removing the ink stains from the emulsion area. With minimal effort. Just a soft dish sponge - non scrubby type.

I'll probably work it into my rotation now and use it once a week or something on my screens to remove those stains.
 
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