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Discuss water base and discharge screen printing inks and curing methods. Share tips on getting the best results with the different ink manufacturers.



Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

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Old August 17th, 2011 Aug 17, 2011 7:00:19 AM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

I am interested in water based inks because I like how they set into the fabric rather than the way plastisol inks tend to sit on top of the fabric and have more of a rough texture.

I'm new to the actual production and process of screening, and I'd like to know the process of drying/curing water based inks.

I went onto a website that I plan on buying some supplies from and saw some flash dryers, but they all seemed to be for standard plastisol inks, they said the method for curing/drying water based inks different. I found another flash dryer that was for water based inks but it was nearly 2,000 dollars.

It's kind of a vague question, but how can water based inks be dried/cured when applied to shirts or canvas tote bags? (the two materials I plan on printing on.)

If anyone has suggestions/answers it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
 
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Old August 23rd, 2011 Aug 23, 2011 8:01:32 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Just used a 21 dollar heat gun from Ace hardware to cure and it worked out great.
 
Old August 24th, 2011 Aug 24, 2011 5:29:50 AM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbk!
Just used a 21 dollar heat gun from Ace hardware to cure and it worked out great.

Yeah I've been hearing that heat guns work well on WB inks... I think I might try that method!
 
 
Old August 24th, 2011 Aug 24, 2011 5:41:33 AM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Important note: Air flow is important to the drying/curing process. Be sure to lift your garment from the platen so that air passes through the garment, allowing the moisture in the ink to evaporate. No need to take it off, just lift it a bit so that it isn't still adhering to the platen.

Also, the fumes are toxic, noxious and will fill up your shop and linger for a long time. I used a hepa respirator from home depot and set up exhaust fans, lots of them. Use stronger and more fans than you think you will need. The respirator pretty much killed the fumes while I was wearing it and it wasn't till I was cleaning up and took that mask off that I realized how polluted the air was in my work area.
 
Old August 24th, 2011 Aug 24, 2011 7:41:02 AM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

I air dryed my shirts, then gave them a quick heat set using teflon sheet. I was careful when taking them off the platen so the ink didn't touch anything (was printing black ink on white apparel). Came out beautiful every time. I never incurred strong orders from waterbased inks, that's why I used them. I converted my garage into a work studio and sometimes opened the door for ventilation, but I didn't run fans while printing because the ink could dry in the screens.
 
Old August 24th, 2011 Aug 24, 2011 7:55:15 AM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbk!
Important note: Air flow is important to the drying/curing process. Be sure to lift your garment from the platen so that air passes through the garment, allowing the moisture in the ink to evaporate. No need to take it off, just lift it a bit so that it isn't still adhering to the platen.

Also, the fumes are toxic, noxious and will fill up your shop and linger for a long time. I used a hepa respirator from home depot and set up exhaust fans, lots of them. Use stronger and more fans than you think you will need. The respirator pretty much killed the fumes while I was wearing it and it wasn't till I was cleaning up and took that mask off that I realized how polluted the air was in my work area.
Water base curing emits noxious odors and fumes?
 
Old August 24th, 2011 Aug 24, 2011 11:47:55 AM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Check out youtube how Ryonet cures waterbased inks with a heat gun...it isn't nauseous odors/fumes technically. But, there will be PLENTY of steam because of the water evaporating. Pop open a window or door and you should be fine. If you're not doing 1000 units and want to make sure your inks are cured iron them for a hot minute and that ink will be there forever. Hope this helps. GL
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Old August 24th, 2011 Aug 24, 2011 12:55:22 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

i think pbk may have been talking about discharge inks, normal wb just gives off water vapor while curing.
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Old August 25th, 2011 Aug 25, 2011 12:04:09 AM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Most of us thinking that the most important issue with water based inks is curing it. There are other things that you should take into account.

If you plan printing more than 1 colors, i.e 4 color or 6 color artwork and printing them with manual carousel than you have to figure out solutions for the drying inks in your screens. If one of your screens locked with drying ink you have to take off all your screens, wash them and start over registration. When screens left for an hour or so you can't imagine how hard it can be cleaning the screens. It is about the gliserin and water evoporates from the ink leaving pigments inside the screens.

How fast you can print on manuals? I can tell that if a screen left more than 1 minute without ink moving in it (printed) than it will happen. Also if the weather conditions are not suitable with this printing type (humidity for example) you have to figure out how to get some water in the area you are printing.

Using flash dryer between inks are easier than plastisol, because the water based inks flash curing easier and needs shorter time but it is also making evaporating easier.

On the other hand, curing with heat gun can work yes but if you will print a big artwork like 40 x 50 cm. then it will take lot of time curing each t-shirt after print. Also think this will make your screens get locked once again.
If not, calculate the time for curing needed for each T-shirt. Printing only 500 T-shirts will take many days..

For those who wants to print water based with manual carousels, I would definitely recommend final curing the garments with at least a decent tunnel dryer (4 meters at least) with extra air intake support and infra red curing elements. Dryers without air intake support will not cure properly.

The printed image should be in dryer @ 160 degrees C. minimum 2 mins. There will be lot of smoke coming out from the printed garment and it should exhausted from the working area carefully, best with 2 decent exhaust fans from entrance and exit of your dryer.

It is yes very nice to have zero hand feel on printed T-shirts but this process can turn into hell very easily.

There are lot of advantages for this printing type as well. I guess if you can set-up your shop considering the disadvantages, then you will get very nice printing results ending up the benefits will be more then it's disadvantages.

I will not list the benefits now because I have to leave, but maybe later if you are interested.

In the end, I can tell that this is my all time favorite printing system.
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Old August 25th, 2011 Aug 25, 2011 5:35:33 AM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalheadmerch
Most of us thinking that the most important issue with water based inks is curing it. There are other things that you should take into account.

If you plan printing more than 1 colors, i.e 4 color or 6 color artwork and printing them with manual carousel than you have to figure out solutions for the drying inks in your screens. If one of your screens locked with drying ink you have to take off all your screens, wash them and start over registration. When screens left for an hour or so you can't imagine how hard it can be cleaning the screens. It is about the gliserin and water evoporates from the ink leaving pigments inside the screens.


How fast you can print on manuals? I can tell that if a screen left more than 1 minute without ink moving in it (printed) than it will happen. Also if the weather conditions are not suitable with this printing type (humidity for example) you have to figure out how to get some water in the area you are printing.

Using flash dryer between inks are easier than plastisol, because the water based inks flash curing easier and needs shorter time but it is also making evaporating easier.

On the other hand, curing with heat gun can work yes but if you will print a big artwork like 40 x 50 cm. then it will take lot of time curing each t-shirt after print. Also think this will make your screens get locked once again.
If not, calculate the time for curing needed for each T-shirt. Printing only 500 T-shirts will take many days..

For those who wants to print water based with manual carousels, I would definitely recommend final curing the garments with at least a decent tunnel dryer (4 meters at least) with extra air intake support and infra red curing elements. Dryers without air intake support will not cure properly.

The printed image should be in dryer @ 160 degrees C. minimum 2 mins. There will be lot of smoke coming out from the printed garment and it should exhausted from the working area carefully, best with 2 decent exhaust fans from entrance and exit of your dryer.

It is yes very nice to have zero hand feel on printed T-shirts but this process can turn into hell very easily.

There are lot of advantages for this printing type as well. I guess if you can set-up your shop considering the disadvantages, then you will get very nice printing results ending up the benefits will be more then it's disadvantages.

I will not list the benefits now because I have to leave, but maybe later if you are interested.

In the end, I can tell that this is my all time favorite printing system.
Since I am new to the process of screening, I will only be using one color on my shirts/canvas bags. I have never done this before. I am a t-shirt designer, but have never messed around with production, however the production aspect is something I really want to learn and get into as I plan on printing my own illustrations onto shirts/bags.

I understand water base printing is more difficult, but it's also something that is very gratifying... as well as the fact that it's more environmentally friendly to boot. It's something I really want to try.

I will be doing this out of my home, in my basement which is temperature controlled. I will be purchasing a silver press (hopefully) from Ryonet.

At this time, I don't know how fast I can print on manuals as I've never physically screen printed before... I am going to take some screen printing classes, that way I can get hands on experience before I go spending a lot of money on supplies, plus I will be able to speak to people face to face and show them what I plan on screening and see how feasible it is.

Also, since my designs are high in detail, I've been told that I will need top use a high mesh screen, possibly a 305, as recommended by some users on this site. I know water base inks are better for usage on high mesh screens.
 
Old August 26th, 2011 Aug 26, 2011 12:13:57 AM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Yeah sorry, I use a discharge base with water based inks for printing on dark garments. Very, very different from just using regular water based ink. But ideal for printing light ink on dark material.

Last edited by pbk!; August 26th, 2011 at 12:25 AM..
 
Old August 26th, 2011 Aug 26, 2011 3:56:17 PM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

If you have a heat press use that works all the time for us.
No need to flash with water based inks just print wet on wet
 
Old August 28th, 2011 Aug 28, 2011 11:12:59 AM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

wet on wet without a flash does not work very well with the rc inks from ryonet, if your colors touch at all you end up with a new color, not to mention the back of your screen picks up ink from previously printed shirts, which can cause issues if you don't maintain awareness of it.

The last thing i would worry about is ink drying in the screen. I typically currently only print a few shirts at a time, the other day i left a big glop of ink in a screen for at least an hour. It printed fine when i went to use it, granted alot of ink was dried around the image, and where there wasn't as much wet ink sitting. But 99% of the time dried ink can be pushed through, by doing a few hard passes with some wet ink. You will see ryan from ryonet a few times and talk about it in the videos you'll get.

Another thing is that they will send your some ink retarder in your kit, it will be labeled "print gen." you add this to your inks if you are having drying problems, it makes them take a lot longer to dry, it essentially waters them down. People with "drying problems" are typically in very dry heat areas, like texas, new mexico, etc. Judging from op's name i would image she/he is in NYC, this shouldn't be an issue.

Third if do somehow have stuck ink in a screen and that you can't get out of the image area, well your in luck also in your kit you will receive a can of spray screen opener called fast 32, and this is what it's made for. No need to take your screen off the press, just spray some of this on it and wipe down with a paper towel. Ryan will also show you this in the videos, and this stuff works amazing as a press wash, amazing for quick color changes. Not to mention you can always have a spray bottle of water handy and give your ink a mist here and there if needed.

Needless to say, drying in the screen is one of those issues, you may or may not face, but if you get a kit from ryonet they will have given you several tools to deal with it very effectively, and you should not let this "potential" issue deter you from water based. I personally have never had to take down my screens and wash them out delaying printing. I've never had drying issues either unless i purpose screw around like i did the other day.

Again starting with wb is very feasible, you just need to take the time to educate yourself. Things like having the right amount of ink in the screen, back flooding, use the right tools will greatly minimize risks of any issues.

In terms of printing on bags, i would not start with a 305 mesh, even if you have a lot of high detail. Because totes are a lot denser and usually not cotton. Your going to need to allow a lot of ink unto the fabric to get good coverage, starting with a mesh so high will cause very little ink to pass through and you will probably end up losing a lot of your detail. Personally i would probably start with a 156, lowest you wanna use for water based. Because a lot of ink is needed to saturate that dense material.

Imo screen printing is defiantly one of those things that is easy to learn and very difficult to master. I in no way shape of form have mastered it, i learn new things every time i print. A lot of it boils down to the style of print your looking to get, different techniques you use, squeeze placement, pressure, type of squeeze, stroke, mesh type these are all things that are unique to an individual, and will vary from job to job depending on the look you want. Don't be afraid to try things out, it's the only way your going to learn something new. What iv'e found out is that screen printing in general is very much an art, and what works for me may not work best for you. So soak up as much info as and you can then take that with you down your own path for your needs.
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Last edited by tlpe548b; August 28th, 2011 at 11:23 AM..
 
Old August 28th, 2011 Aug 28, 2011 12:12:11 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlpe548b
wet on wet without a flash does not work very well with the rc inks from ryonet, if your colors touch at all you end up with a new color, not to mention the back of your screen picks up ink from previously printed shirts, which can cause issues if you don't maintain awareness of it.

The last thing i would worry about is ink drying in the screen. I typically currently only print a few shirts at a time, the other day i left a big glop of ink in a screen for at least an hour. It printed fine when i went to use it, granted alot of ink was dried around the image, and where there wasn't as much wet ink sitting. But 99% of the time dried ink can be pushed through, by doing a few hard passes with some wet ink. You will see ryan from ryonet a few times and talk about it in the videos you'll get.

Another thing is that they will send your some ink retarder in your kit, it will be labeled "print gen." you add this to your inks if you are having drying problems, it makes them take a lot longer to dry, it essentially waters them down. People with "drying problems" are typically in very dry heat areas, like texas, new mexico, etc. Judging from op's name i would image she/he is in NYC, this shouldn't be an issue.

Third if do somehow have stuck ink in a screen and that you can't get out of the image area, well your in luck also in your kit you will receive a can of spray screen opener called fast 32, and this is what it's made for. No need to take your screen off the press, just spray some of this on it and wipe down with a paper towel. Ryan will also show you this in the videos, and this stuff works amazing as a press wash, amazing for quick color changes. Not to mention you can always have a spray bottle of water handy and give your ink a mist here and there if needed.

Needless to say, drying in the screen is one of those issues, you may or may not face, but if you get a kit from ryonet they will have given you several tools to deal with it very effectively, and you should not let this "potential" issue deter you from water based. I personally have never had to take down my screens and wash them out delaying printing. I've never had drying issues either unless i purpose screw around like i did the other day.

Again starting with wb is very feasible, you just need to take the time to educate yourself. Things like having the right amount of ink in the screen, back flooding, use the right tools will greatly minimize risks of any issues.

In terms of printing on bags, i would not start with a 305 mesh, even if you have a lot of high detail. Because totes are a lot denser and usually not cotton. Your going to need to allow a lot of ink unto the fabric to get good coverage, starting with a mesh so high will cause very little ink to pass through and you will probably end up losing a lot of your detail. Personally i would probably start with a 156, lowest you wanna use for water based. Because a lot of ink is needed to saturate that dense material.

Imo screen printing is defiantly one of those things that is easy to learn and very difficult to master. I in no way shape of form have mastered it, i learn new things every time i print. A lot of it boils down to the style of print your looking to get, different techniques you use, squeeze placement, pressure, type of squeeze, stroke, mesh type these are all things that are unique to an individual, and will vary from job to job depending on the look you want. Don't be afraid to try things out, it's the only way your going to learn something new. What iv'e found out is that screen printing in general is very much an art, and what works for me may not work best for you. So soak up as much info as and you can then take that with you down your own path for your needs.
Thanks for the info! You make very good points. I really would love to start with WB inks... I've heard a lot of people on here that talk about how difficult it is, which definitely made me a little hesitant, but after reading what you wrote, it makes me feel a bit better! I think it's about trial and error, and the tools that Ryonet offers to help make the WB process a bit more manageable makes me want to try it even more.

I live in NY so the weather here isn't an issue (minus this little hurricane we are currently having) but extreme dry hot weather and air quality is never a problem here.

I definitely have so much to learn, which is also why I want to take the screen printing class, offered by Ryonet so I will learn more. They even have screen printing classes I can take at my old college, even though I'm graduated I can take non matriculated courses and lucky for me, there is a textile screen printing course. So I feel as though I should seriously consider that!

I have to ask though, if I start off with a 156 screen, and I'm printing on canvas, will that effect the detail greatly? In another post, I posted a picture of what I plan on screening, and it's a super high detail illustration... People were telling me to use such high mesh screens. I also am looking into possibly printing on cotton canvas totes since they are softer, and cotton draw string backpacks along with regular canvas as well.
 
Old August 28th, 2011 Aug 28, 2011 12:48:19 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Drying/Curing Water Based Inks

To be honest, i've never printed on a tote or anything other than some paper and shirts. It could be a fair amount of trail and error, i think it depends a lot on the tote you end up printing on. I just know that with thicker materials you are going to need a decent amount of ink to saturate it. otherwise you may end up with spotty coverage, little holes all over your work, that will probably get worse when you cure it.

Just looked at your other post, nice work btw . I don't know that is a lot of detail printed on a dense material. Maybe you could start out with a higher mesh count, say like 230-305. If you don't get good coverage on the tote you could add some retarder to the ink, making it more viscous, it should help it flow better. That way you could possible use the same screen for the shirts and the totes?

Don't know a whole lot about this subject, most of my designs are fairly simple, i don't ever use over a 230, or i haven't yet. And i don't print on totes so my knowledge is limited, but i'm sure you'll find the answers! You may have to experiment a bit for you to be happy with the results.
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