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Discuss water base and discharge screen printing inks and curing methods. Share tips on getting the best results with the different ink manufacturers.



Intro to water based printing?

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Old February 18th, 2011 Feb 18, 2011 3:49:36 AM -   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Another thing that constantly bafflers me is the use of a fixer or fixing agent(A self curing additive that allows the inks to cure within 72 hours without heat curing. Although heat is not required, curing at 150ºC for 15 seconds or more will result in a reduced setting time) TULCO Auxiliaries and Supplies

Heat setting comes before curing so what could that reduced setting time be?

It is very common for suppliers to "advice" adding fixers because, according to them, aside from "without heat curing" it will also increase washing/color fastness. That even properly cured inks will fade more when no fixers are added(compared to prints with fixers).

Considering that inks mixed with fixers has to be used within 4-8 hours or they'll go sour or harden it is not difficult to imagine how much more sales are derived from the sales of fixers and inks to make up for the spoiled inks.

I am not using fixers. I have not been using fixers for almost a year now. Still, I would like to know your views. I am not sure if fixers are available in the US but thought that people in other countried would likle to hear your views on the use of fixers.



 
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Old March 31st, 2011 Mar 31, 2011 7:15:24 AM -   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Well Angel, I have never used fixers. What baffles me is if it will increase fastness then why not just put in the ink to begin with. Sounds like a sales gimmick to me. If you want your image not to fade (Quickly) it is always best to heat cure your shirts (IMHO)...

Bob ?;O)
 
Old April 1st, 2011 Apr 1, 2011 5:17:47 AM -   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Firstly I have not been using fixers for quite some time now but I make sure that I fully cure the ink. Adds to the electric bill though. But I used to use fixers and for most waterbase printers here, fixers is a way of life. Even if not properly cured, inks without fixers do fade must faster than inks with fixers. So to a certain degree, it is true and not just marketing gimmick. And this is why many printers swear by them. But when some suppliers say that even fully cured inks without fixers will fade faster, I think that is marketing gimmick.

Suppliers/manufacturers do have a vested interested in the use of fixers. That means additional sales and more ink spoilage due to the short shelf life of inks with fixers.

2nd, manufacturers do not add fixers to inks because inks with fixers have a shelf life of only 4-8 hours.

Lastly, the best method is not necessarily the cheapest method. For printers, I think that adding fixer and throwing away spoiled inks is still cheaper than cost of electricity from fully curing shirts. But I am not a volume printer and uses inks that costs about 3-4x more than regular waterbase inks. So, if I use fixers, I'd be throwing away much more inks

I hope I don't sound like contradicting myself. One thing I would really like to know is why fixers are not popular in other countries is why? I have some of the answers but something is still missing.

Thanks for sharing Bob.



 
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Old April 16th, 2012 Apr 16, 2012 10:17:31 AM -   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

I am also using tulco brands and had the same problem. I used tulco superwhite with fixer as under based and on top of it are the colors. I also cured it as referred by the vendor. Then my client called me and said that the prints washed out, some complete and some partially washes out. I was really frustrated looking for answers. But every one says different thing. Some say its the curing, some say inks, etc..

I think it everyone must experiment on his own, try to do some of the advises and pick the one that answers your problem. We are all learning anyway. Be generous in giving help.
 
Old April 16th, 2012 Apr 16, 2012 10:18:21 PM -   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

If you are using tulco inks specifically a white underbase with fixer, and assuming that you are curing them at the right temp and the right amount of time, then there are 2 likely possibilities

1) You are using an ink that belongs to a different series for the top coat. For example, your superwhite underbase is RC (local) and your top coat superwhite is SH(Japan). Or

2) Your top coat has the same series as your underbase but is a "wetlook" base. Superwhites and wetlook inks are actually different inks even if they have the same series or are of the same brand. You need to add wetlook inks to the underbase and for the top coat wetlook to stick. Usually, the underbase has a greater mix of superwhite and the top coats have a greater mix of wetlook



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Old June 3rd, 2012 Jun 3, 2012 7:51:38 PM -   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Some very good info in this thread.

inks:
We are currently using the Sericol Texcharge system for our water based printing. I have heard that the Rutand pigments are much more vibrant than the Sericol inks. Is this true?

We mostly use this system for its ease to work with and hit pantones.

off-contact and build-up:
What do you do to limit the build-up on large runs? We like to keep our off-contact as low as possible to maximize penetration into the garment. I feel the low off contact is causing more build-up. Anyone else have this issue? Or better yet, a remedy?

We are running S mesh at 28-32 newtons.

TIA
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Old June 4th, 2012 Jun 4, 2012 9:11:40 AM -   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Might be the ink system, have not had this issue on other discharge products. However try spraying 3M silicone, or Albatross Silicone on the bottom of all screens before print. It wears off after awhile and needs to be reapplied. Typically though the discharge inks from Jantex and Matsui will not build up.
 
Old July 30th, 2012 Jul 30, 2012 6:19:48 AM -   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

I am also using Tulco Printing Inks.

I print multiple layers of ink in one shirt (dark colored school uniform). My worries comes when I delivered the shirts improperly cured, not even ironed. In two weeks time, I asked the personnel in-charge of the t-shirt
distribution if the shirts fade or ink might broke off the shirt - it didn't was-out. The personnel also told me that after washing, the colors look brighter than the newly delivered shirts.

The ink (Tulco RC Series) contains 30% Wetlook (Rubberize) + 70% Superwhite (Rubberize) + 3% Fixer UR + Pigment (colorant). I use to mix the Fixer UR in a container with 1 kilo of mixed Superwhite and Wetlook (used above ratio) to be used for several days of printing. I think the Fixer UR did not spoil the ink.
 
Old October 13th, 2012 Oct 13, 2012 6:06:35 PM -   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

can anyone help with this question https://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastis...ml#post1182847
 
Old October 27th, 2012 Oct 27, 2012 10:56:40 PM -   #55 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by convobox
can anyone help with this question https://www.t-shirtforums.com/plastis...ml#post1182847
You posted that question in the above thread(linked).

I have no problems with plastisol on 230 mesh although I do not use AA shirts. I do not think the shirt is the problem though.

How heavy is heavy???

I do not like to add additives to inks but I often add about 10% soft hand extender and sopmetimes about 10% reducer.

Could you be pushing (or pulling) the squeegee too hard? Is your squeegee corners sharp? You can try run your squeegee through your arm and feel the corners. Are you using the correct squeegee angle?



 
Old December 2nd, 2012 Dec 2, 2012 12:54:53 PM -   #56 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abchung
Try looking into discharge ink, if you want to print on dark t-shirts.
Can you tell me what is discharge ink?
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Old December 2nd, 2012 Dec 2, 2012 12:58:05 PM -   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by j24s
Can you tell me what is discharge ink?
Think of it as bleach. It's not ink, although you can mix it with ink to do single pass printing.

Basically, you screen print discharge on a dark garment and the discharge 'bleaches' the area white. You can leave it like that if that's the look you're going for, or add other colors using additional screens.
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Old December 2nd, 2012 Dec 2, 2012 11:06:26 PM -   #58 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Waterbased inks partially penetrate the fabric and partially lay pigments on top a fabric to give color. Plastisol inks is laid on top of the fabric hence a heavier hand.

In contrast, discharge inks contain either formaldehyde or some other chemicals to bleach the image. During the curing process, the dye in the fabric is removed(bleached). The bleached image can either be the final image or sometimes, colored pigment is added to the discharge ink to "colorize" the bleached area.



 
Old December 3rd, 2012 Dec 3, 2012 5:29:57 AM -   #59 (permalink)
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Default

I would advise avoiding discharge inks that are not fermaldyhyde free. The technology has moved forward and these old style discharge agents are unnecessarily dangerous unless some hefty precautions are in place. Just ask your supplier if it off gasses anything dangerous and also keep the MSDS sheets for your records.

Just my two cents. Toss them in a well and make a wish.
 
Old July 17th, 2014 Jul 17, 2014 10:26:17 AM -   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Hi Im a total newbie to t shirt printing, Ive done some light on dark and wasnt very impressed with speedball coverage......
2 questions, is permaset super cover much stronger than speedball ink? and could it be possible in theory to add a speedball colour to ie red to a permaset white to make a pink... ? has anyone ever mixed brands of waterbased inks? i mean it works when Im painting with acrylics so...... thanks for any help would be really cool

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