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Discuss water base and discharge screen printing inks and curing methods. Share tips on getting the best results with the different ink manufacturers.



Intro to water based printing?

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Old April 15th, 2010 Apr 15, 2010 10:03:41 AM -   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hardener after effects

Chromaline Magna/Cure UDC-2 is a very good 38% solids dual-cure emulsion with moderate water resistance. Completely exposed it should resist for thousands of images, no matter how many times you take the ink out.

A better choice from Chromaline would be an emulsion designed for water resistance like CP Tex - 42% solids, extremely durable, water resistant, designed for belt printers, yet still reclaimable if you use a pressure washer.

Of course, all water resistant stencils resist water-based stencil remover, so they are traditionally all hard to reclaim.

CP TEX is about US$20 per gallon less expensive than UDC-2 - also sold in quarts for lower volume shops.

Measuring Stencil Hardness
You will get diazo color change with those stencils, but without a step wedge test positive, you can't really tell if you actually cross-linked all the sensitizer.

The best exposure test for stencil hardness is a US$10 Stouffer 21 Step Transmission Gray Scale.
http://www.stouffer.net/TransPage.htm#21-Step

A transmission gray scale is a small film positive with darker and darker filters next to each other in steps. This is a standard photographic darkroom test positive that's been used since the 1930's.

When you have one on the stencil as you expose, you'll get a simulation of 21 different exposures to the stencil and you get visual feedback that shows how well your stencil is cured.

When you develop the stencil, areas that didn’t get enough exposure will dissolve with water and rinse down the drain. Aim for a minimum of a Solid Step 7 that adheres to the mesh and survives development. More exposure will make your stencil more durable and less will make the stencil less durable, but light scatter could start to choke fine lines or halftones.

The Thin Ice of Under Exposure
You might consider under exposing, but at the expense of a weak stencil on the inside - where the ink is.

Plastisol ink is like salad dressing when it comes to attacking a stencil, but water-based ink, (made of 80% water) is made of the stuff that dissolves un-cured stencil like the Wicked Witch of the West.

Once you know how to completely cure the stencil - then you can focus on how to get fine lines to print. That's when you worry about using an exposure calculator to calculate how to fatten your fine line art so it survives the choke of under cutting or light scatter.

Put one on an out-of-the-way edge of every screen you expose for the rest of your life.
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Last edited by RichardGreaves; April 15th, 2010 at 11:19 AM..
 
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Old April 15th, 2010 Apr 15, 2010 10:57:47 AM -   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Greaves, I appreciate all your input in this forum. How will Chromaline's PC 701 hold up to waterbased ink. I'm going to be trying some matsui and permaset inks and was wondering if I need to change emulsions. 701 is all I've been using and all my exposures are dialed in for it.
 
Old April 15th, 2010 Apr 15, 2010 11:08:11 AM -   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

I love discharge printing. It gives the softest feel. If you want an ink that is kinda between plastisol and waterbased ink, try Gen IV inks. It is a waterbased ink that doesnt dry in your screen as quickly and is easier to work with because it has the consitancy of mayonaise. They say it can sit on the screen for an hours or so without problems.

I've been playing with it lately. I really like how easy it is to use. It is softer than plastisol but not quite as soft as the normal waterbased inks. ....Just an idea
 
 
Old April 15th, 2010 Apr 15, 2010 11:17:47 AM -   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

PC 701 is a high speed plastisol emulsion designed for low energy exposure units - not resistance.

This is only your first shock, as you decide to work with water-based inks. Every part is more work and takes longer.

As you re-read the final paragraphs of Post #16, poor exposure can be fatal even for water-resistant stencils, where plastisols can be printed with the poorest stencils you can imagine and "they work".

For a WR stencil, expect exposure times 6 to 10 times longer than PC 701.

Time to buy a US$10 Stouffer T-2115.

Gen IV inks are from International Coatings
http://www.iccink.com/screenprint/waterbase.htm
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Last edited by RichardGreaves; April 15th, 2010 at 11:24 AM..
 
Old April 15th, 2010 Apr 15, 2010 11:26:38 AM -   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Yea, I put the step test on every scren. Takes the guesswork out.
 
Old April 15th, 2010 Apr 15, 2010 11:37:59 AM -   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Kerry,

Great, the Stouffer scales that will get you to the correct exposure for each mesh & coating set in two exposures where you only have to test with a 3" x 6" coating.
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Old November 27th, 2010 Nov 27, 2010 9:28:29 PM -   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hardener after effects

I have not verified this but just want to pass along a claim by one of our more experienced colleague who goes by the username of bebo. He uses a locally manufactured emulsion and household bleach to reclaim screens. He has posted that (his) hardened screens are easier to reclaim with bleach.



 
Old November 28th, 2010 Nov 28, 2010 6:03:30 AM -   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

old thread.. but ive had great result post exposing screens.

we were working with positives that werent as uv resistant as they could be (before be bought dMax inkjet ink) and the stencil would easily overexpose. so we underexposed, washed it out, dabbed out the excess moisture from the open areas (which is important with an underexposed screen to prevent unexposed emulsion from wandering into the open areas of the screen) and set the screen out in the sun to dry and finish exposure.

the emulsion on the stencil was noticeably underexposed on the side opposite the exposure lamp (slimy and blue as opposed to green) but after post exposure lasting a few hours in the sunlight this was completely gone. about 100 impressions were made using matsui discharge ink and the screen was cleaned of ink with no breakdown of emulsion or detail noticeable.

emulsion used was Ulano qx-1, a photopolymer
 
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Old November 28th, 2010 Nov 28, 2010 8:06:37 AM -   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

I lover waterbased inks
 
Old December 30th, 2010 Dec 30, 2010 2:26:26 AM -   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

think I have read most of the waterbase threads and can't seem to notice the absence of any reference to the more opaque ink/inkbase we call super white or white and the transparent mixing base called wetlook or clear. The superwhite or white can be printed directly onto colored garments or used as mixing bases while. The clear or wetlook are transparent bases for light colored shirts or for mixed with the superwhites to add some glossiness to the otherwise flat white inks. Aside from a glossier look, they also dilute the opacity or whiteness of the superwhite ink so added colored pigments will show through. And yes, being a transparent base, they can be used as a base for process colors.

Usually, these superwhites and wetlook bases are also mixed together because a layer without the other ink "may" wash off.

What are the mixing bases used in the US?




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Old December 30th, 2010 Dec 30, 2010 7:18:17 AM -   #26 (permalink)
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Default What are the mixing bases used in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJames
Usually, these superwhites and wetlook bases are also mixed together because a layer without the other ink "may" wash off.

What are the mixing bases used in the US?
If ink washes off, it's not completely cured. If there is more pigment than the resin can hold on the shirt, no amount of heat will make it stay, like powdered sugar on a donut.

Every water-based ink company has many bases. I suggest a Google or Bing search for a list of bases that you can specify.

I know we can be more helpful if you tell us the source of your mystery "superwhite" or "wetlook" bases for example, or comparison.

The pigment load of the ink is the most common specification used for comparison. Novelty bases that perform a special effect are what you may be looking for.
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Old December 30th, 2010 Dec 30, 2010 8:54:51 AM -   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thutch15
I dont think you will have to many challenges... I would suggest high mesh, because of the light consistency of the ink. Also, remember not to dump a lot of ink in the screen, because it will dry.

Practice...practice...practice.
High mesh counts of 250-300 will be a problem.
Waterbase dries in faster on high mesh counts.
Using a 110-T, a 150/S, 180/S will give better results since waterbase needs to saturate the fabric for good color. When washed the fibrillation of the shirt fabric (fibers that pop up during washing) will cause high mesh prints to become pale, while a 110T print will retain color better.

Cure with a gas fired oven for 1.5 minutes to fully evaporate water or the image will wash out partially. If you only have an electric oven you may need multiple passes. To know if the ink is cured rub a printed area on white fabric, if any color transfers to the white fabric it is not completely cured or you have added too much pigment.

Pigment load should be less than 10% by weight using non concentrated pigment and less than 8% using concentrated pigments. Also only white and very light neutral colored shirts can be printed with waterbase, for dark shirts use a 100% cotton dischargable shirt and discharge inks that print with the same meshes above.

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Old December 30th, 2010 Dec 30, 2010 9:21:31 AM -   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Intro to water based printing?

Lots of great info here. My best results are to use an SBQ Pure Photopolymer with diazo. It doesn't need the diazo it just helps increase water resistancy. As Richard mentioned exposure is crucial. Expose well and you have a great printing screen.

Hardeners do help if you use flourescents, or a weaker 1.25Kw metal halide. Post expose the screen before applying, rub in like you are waxing a car. MS-Hardener from Murakami leaves a totally reclaimable screen.

Drying the emulsion completely before exposure, and before printing is also crucial. Use a hot box if in a cold climate, or the sun in the sunbelt. The screen can feel dry but still have moisture on the inside of the emulsion, it will break down no matter how well you expose or harden. Don't rush the screen to press!

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Old December 31st, 2010 Dec 31, 2010 10:49:03 PM -   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: What are the mixing bases used in the US?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardGreaves
If ink washes off, it's not completely cured. If there is more pigment than the resin can hold on the shirt, no amount of heat will make it stay, like powdered sugar on a donut.

Every water-based ink company has many bases. I suggest a Google or Bing search for a list of bases that you can specify.

I know we can be more helpful if you tell us the source of your mystery "superwhite" or "wetlook" bases for example, or comparison.

The pigment load of the ink is the most common specification used for comparison. Novelty bases that perform a special effect are what you may be looking for.
1) That is not the only reason why ink washes out. Inks from different manufacturers or with different series "may" wash out. Here, it is generally not recommended to use different layers of waterbase inks.


2) For me. the great mystery is the absence of an opaque superwhite or white base for darker shirts and a transparent wetlook or clear base for lighter colored shirts. As a waterbase ink printer, and I believe I have used some of the newest, best and most expensive waterbase inks in the world, is how an industry could survive without these 2 complimentary bases.

I would surely love to learn more about the waterbase inks you use and how you use them for different colored shirts?

In the meantime, look at the attached picture from this site TULCO Screen Printing Supply: Products

The wetlook and the superwhite are what we're interested in. They both have different series, a wetlook SH and a wetlook RC as well as a superwhite sh and a superwhite rc. Print the rc over the Sh or vice versa and you're asking for trouble. Print a different brand of ink over another is a also bad idea. Print the same sh series, a wetlook sh and a superwhite sh, although they have the same series is also not recommended. But if you print a mixture of superwhite sh + wetlook sh over a layer with roughly the same mix then the 2 layers will not wash out.

I have not tried the different mixes just to see which combination will or will not wash out but here it is an accepted practice not to mix inks with different series or brands. Sure, some printers have successfully print different brands of ink or mix them but that is an exception rather than the rule. They did so after conducting their own wash test.

I have also used an ink from a peruvian company called PrinTop. Their opaque base is called Aquaplast Base 100 and the transparent base is called Aquaplast neutral 100. Different names but the same transparent and opaque base combination. It is one of the more expensive waterbase inks here distributed by a Union Ink and Graphics Philippines (importer/distributor of Union Ink).

This is Printop's website PRINTOP - World Class Inks

Can't find the 2 bases I mentioned but their aquaplast white 100 is here PRINTOP - World Class Inks



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Old January 24th, 2011 Jan 24, 2011 12:14:49 PM -   #30 (permalink)
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Default Too much pigment or not enough heat energy and you lose pigment

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJames
1) That is not the only reason why ink washes out.

Inks from different manufacturers or with different series "may" wash out.

Here, it is generally not recommended to use different layers of waterbase inks.
Unmodified, water-based inks from a commercial manufacturer have a specific ratio of resin to pigment. If there is more pigment than the resin can hold on the shirt, no amount of heat will make it stay, pigment will wash off like powdered sugar on a donut.

If heat doesn't move through the ink film and also heat the shirt - AND pigment is lost in the laundry, you didn't completely cure the ink.

Loss of pigment would be proof of inadequate cure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJames
I would surely love to learn more about the waterbase inks you use and how you use them for different colored shirts?
In April 2010 I posted a list of water-based articles

Water-Based Homework
https://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-...tml#post673597
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Last edited by RichardGreaves; January 24th, 2011 at 12:25 PM..
 
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