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desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

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Old April 23rd, 2008 Apr 23, 2008 7:23:53 PM -   #1 (permalink)
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Default desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Hey all --

crazy question I suppose:

has anyone tried pumping eco-solvent inks into any of their cheap epson printers (c88, c120, 1280, 1400, 1800, etc)???

I'd love to be able to print some uv safe vinyl stickers from one of those babies.

I found this ink, 'jetall', which claims to work with all piezoelectric printers:
"JETALL" Eco-solvent Ink

Im sure there's other brands, but I just happed across that one while googling up some other info. Certainly the ability to print eco-sol inks from a basic 'el-cheapo' desktop would be a pretty sweet setup. (yeah, sure -- ya probably gotta roll your own ICC for it, but even if that takes ya a few days of trial and error, no biggie)

Anyone worked up the gumption to test out eco-sol in a desktop? Im on the prowl for a cheap craigslist epson to give it a whirl. (no need to jam working printers, eh?)

Just wondering if anyone else had gone down the same path at any point??? thoughts? experiences? riot acts to be read? =o)~

spanks a mil,
d

Last edited by daveM; April 23rd, 2008 at 07:34 PM..
 
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Old May 4th, 2008 May 4, 2008 6:47:40 PM -   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

that is a great idea, I am gonna start researching because I am geting into a project of printing full color signs over printable Vinyl and only solvent inks will work outdoors without laminating
 
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Old May 4th, 2008 May 4, 2008 9:28:45 PM -   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

I also found this brand of eco sol for piezo type printers available too:

AlphaChem Co., Ltd. - Piezo Solvent ink - EC Plaza

I will get around to trying this out eventually. Im a bit overloaded with regular work to get to it soon though. (

found a couple of c88's on craigslist. Maybe Ill be sacrificing them to the vinyl gods? Maybe the ES inks will flow through the CIS and heads fine?

Surely , someone on this board has tried loading their desktop c88, c120, 1280, 1400, 1800, etc, (narrow format printer) with eco sol inks at some point though, and can provide a jumping off point for my experiments??

Anyone with an epson 7000, 9000, etc ever try their inks in the desktop printers?

Or maybe someone has even tried solvent inks in the desktop??

I was hoping people might be able to chip in stuff they tried that didn't work to save some of the initial inevitable failures.

bueller, bueller, beuller..... ;o)~

Last edited by daveM; May 4th, 2008 at 09:38 PM..
 
 
Old May 4th, 2008 May 4, 2008 9:32:26 PM -   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

googling around late on a sunday eve, came across this 3rd party ink chart:

Wide-Format Imaging -- Third Party Ink Resource Chart

No ref to how old it is, and, of course no mention of any of the "cheap" epsons on there, but might be of use at some point in this experiment.

d
 
Old May 7th, 2008 May 7, 2008 5:05:25 AM -   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Solvent inks are usually too harsh for aqueous print heads. Solvent printers also typically heat the material you are printing on so that the solvents embed themselves, this contributes to the fade resistance expected from solvents almost as much as the ink itself. Epson Stylus printers on the other hand, use a piezoelectric system that purposely does not heat the ink or material.


I'm interested in hearing what you may find from your experiments, but without seeing some solid results proving otherwise, would not expect the printheads nor the printed materials to last very long at all.
Good luck!

Last edited by gothicaleigh; May 7th, 2008 at 05:11 AM..
 
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Old May 7th, 2008 May 7, 2008 10:31:02 AM -   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicaleigh
Solvent inks are usually too harsh for aqueous print heads. Solvent printers also typically heat the material you are printing on so that the solvents embed themselves, this contributes to the fade resistance expected from solvents almost as much as the ink itself. Epson Stylus printers on the other hand, use a piezoelectric system that purposely does not heat the ink or material.
Thanks GL. thats the kind of tip I was hoping for -- also sets my expectations pretty low for making it work out at all. Just the kind of reality/sanity check I was looking for.

If the inks will eventually eat the print head, it's likely not a very viable project. On the other hand, it wouldnt be too big a deal to shoot the printed vinyl through a tunnel dryer or some under some sort of spot dryer since there's a screen printer right next door to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicaleigh
I'm interested in hearing what you may find from your experiments, but without seeing some solid results proving otherwise, would not expect the printheads nor the printed materials to last very long at all.
Good luck!
Well now that I have some baseline expectations set, Im prepared to totally kill one of the c88s. Truthfully I wouldn't be trying to ever sell any of the printed vinyl stickers if it did work out. It's more of a pet project for a family member. It popped into my head after reading the running TS-F thread about the guy who converted a standard c88 into a cheap working dtg printer with a bit of perseverence and creative 'outside-the-box' thinking.

Im sure someone else has already thought about, and even tried, to add the eco-sol (or solvent) inks into a desktop, so I was just hoping they would share that success/failure/experience as the baseline for me to jump in, OR, not even attempt as totally hopeless.

Obviously, something as simple as the printhead on the cheap epsons not allowing the eco-sol ink particles to properly pass thru would put the ka-bosh on it working immediately.

anywho, thanks for the pointer. I didnt even think about inks needing heat to properly cure. Just assumed if they were piezo technology friendly they didnt require any heat. Of it makes sense as piezo is just using a electrical charge to control the release of ink droplets -- nothing to do with the curing of it.

d <-- still wont get to try it the experiment til mid summer or later at the earliest.

Last edited by daveM; May 7th, 2008 at 10:38 AM..
 
Old May 7th, 2008 May 7, 2008 4:35:08 PM -   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

check out the cnc forums, they have a thread on making your printed circuit boards by modifying an inkjet and there are quite a few posts about different heads and etching materials that may bo of use to you.
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Old May 7th, 2008 May 7, 2008 7:02:09 PM -   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesa
check out the cnc forums, they have a thread on making your printed circuit boards by modifying an inkjet and there are quite a few posts about different heads and etching materials that may bo of use to you.

tnx. Id skimmed that forum a while back but havent been over it lately. Ill search for the head info specifically.

OT: BTW, one of my fav items from there is the guy who used his modded cnc rig to literally burn pictures of his face into toast. Very funny. Here's the google (youtube) video of it for anyone who's not seen it:
YouTube - CNC Toast graphics

Last edited by daveM; May 7th, 2008 at 10:12 PM..
 
Old May 7th, 2008 May 7, 2008 10:45:29 PM -   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Well a thread I found on the cnczone forum looks to be the swansong for my pipe dream of a cheap desktop solvent ink printer for vinyl stickers for a nephew.

assuming the cnc poster knows what he's talking about, and, as also noted by caleigh, the plastic in the aqueous inkjets-- print head, carts, lines, etc-- just can't handle the eco-sol (or solvent) inks.
CNCzone.com-The Ultimate Machinist Community - View Single Post - Build your own large format printer?

also:
CNCzone.com-The Ultimate Machinist Community - View Single Post - Build your own large format printer?

So even if they inks didnt disolve the plastics, you would still need a method to clean the head out every time you shut them down for the day.

Kinda ironic. you need heat to properly cure the inks, but just sitting by themselves overnight in the printhead with no heat they will gel, clog, and melt the plastic. Probably generating enough heat to properly cure the ink that is now covering the innerds of your former printer.
;o)~

hmm. Ill keep researching what others have tried, but at this point theres no need for me to meltdown the innards of my c88 to prove it to myself.

I suppose I probably should have just googled a bit more meticulously before I posted my original question. Tnx to cookie for the heads up on related posts in CNC

Last edited by daveM; May 7th, 2008 at 11:07 PM..
 
Old May 7th, 2008 May 7, 2008 11:07:55 PM -   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Just a thought can you work this the other way around...

If you can't use that particular ink in the heads can the same thing be achieved by a different "solvent" base?

There is a poster on CNC forums who seems to know his stuff about inks (it is somewhere in the 48 pages of the link!) perhaps he can offer a suggestion (he seems knowledgeable in the chemical make up of such things)
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Old May 7th, 2008 May 7, 2008 11:57:19 PM -   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesa
Just a thought can you work this the other way around...

If you can't use that particular ink in the heads can the same thing be achieved by a different "solvent" base?

There is a poster on CNC forums who seems to know his stuff about inks (it is somewhere in the 48 pages of the link!) perhaps he can offer a suggestion (he seems knowledgeable in the chemical make up of such things)
LOL. I made it through about an hour and a half of reading posts in that thread on the c88 printer PCB DIY etching conversion, but book marked it to finish later. only made it to page 20 or so by 3am. I think I saw your name clip past on a post when I briefly skimmed forward towards the end of it.

Really, really fasciating stuff going on over in cnc, especially the homebrew tools. Amazing how collective knowledge and sharing affords people with a limited budgets the ability to make modded items/tools they would never have been able to afford otherwise.

This is the great use of the internet, freely shared knowledge -- just like this forum.

Thanks for the heads up too, Im sure Ill get to the ink post in the thread sometime in the next day. Not quite sure what you mean by:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesa
If you can't use that particular ink in the heads can the same thing be achieved by a different "solvent" base?
Would that require mixing my own inks/solvents/carriers? As opposed to buying commercially available ones? Im probably not that skilled to take it that far. READ: too lazy to mix my own. ;o)~
 
Old May 8th, 2008 May 8, 2008 12:17:00 AM -   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Yeah I'm planning on seeing if I can find that part again... It is amazing what those guys get up to! (I love the CNC made from a router!)

There was a post from a guy who may be able to help, he seemed to know his stuff and may even know a way around it. Epson is favoured because the ink they use (Durabrite) can be heat set after printing and the piezo head allows use of pigment inks.

The other heads (lexmark, HP etc) may be a way around this. I'll see if I can find out more
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Old May 8th, 2008 May 8, 2008 4:14:20 AM -   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesa
.......The other heads (lexmark, HP etc) may be a way around this. I'll see if I can find out more
I gottcha. That's not a bad avenue to check out-- a diff brand other than epson.

My understanding, admittedly rudimentary, is that all the other inkjet heads (on the major available brands besides epson) need heat applied to deliver ink through the heads the way they were designed. Only the epson delivers the droplets using no heat, so it is rather prized amoung the printers as it can most easily be modded/hacked to deliver the widest range of fluids through it's head design. inks, flammable fluids, proteins for research, bodily fluids up to the viscosity of blood at room temp, etc, etc...

But I will look into using another cheao inkjet brand besides epson to see if it's viable.

I'll get to finish off that c88/PCB post in my reading tomight. I'll register and pop off a question if I need to. Thanks for helping out with pointers to related info.

tnx
 
Old November 18th, 2008 Nov 18, 2008 11:43:27 PM -   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

ah jus the thread im looking for. so hows the progress dave?

i was once told that the solvent inks are rather acidic so perhaps thats why it melts the printheads. but the question is, regardless whether it melts or not, will the desktop printer with solvent inks work?

to cure the ink perhaps can i use my heat press or hot air gun? anyone tried?
 
Old November 19th, 2008 Nov 19, 2008 2:05:41 PM -   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: desktop epsons using eco-solvent ink?????

Actually my Roland Uses Epson 7000 heads but to be honest not sure if it is modified hmm
There are distributors that sell small solvent printers that can be used to print on anything, as long as you coat material... same concept as DTG printers

Head melting thing not to sure about but those inks reek Ha
I don't think you need a head gun as long as you coat the material but that comes to this:

Is all this work worth it?.... Sometimes it cheaper to sub contract vinyl printing work out because I tell customer this little phrase "time equals money" and I done plenty of sub work for other sign shops that rather pay me to do it, than themselves

I honestly don't make jack on it with prices I run but if you ever need some printing on vinyl hit me up

Oh BTW those head are more prone to clogging than DTG heads, especially if using True Solvent ink which are far stronger than Eco Solvent inks
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