[MAZARINEMOON]

Hello Everyone...

I have been using this forum for quite some time now, but this is the first post that I am entering.

I have been screen printing for about a year now and I would like to say that I some what know what I am doing (FINALLY!) until just recently...

One of my current customers has just gotten a hold of me and informed me that some of the ink has worn off in the wash... for a second time!

After the first order I did for them, they told me that the ink on a tee or two washed off and it caused me alarm... as I want my product to go out perfectly. I did some studying on this forum and found that I may have been allowing my ink to over cure under the flash dryer and considered that to be the root of the evil, misbehaving ink!

So on my last order... I ensured that my technique and process was as impeccable as I could manage...

* I used a 156 mesh screen,
* wilflex ink... which I mixed well with a hand held electric beater
* I added 10% reducer
* ensured all ink cleared the screen before gel curing it...
* I stood by the flash dryer on more than a few of the garments, counting out loud the time that passed before finding the gel-ly sweet spot... then counted with each shirt that went under to remove the heat in time (about 30 seconds)
* I applied a second coat before putting the tee into the conveyor dryer

...Now I just don't understand what could have gone wrong??? both the flash dryer and conveyor dryer that I use are from Ryonet. I have the little black buddy conveyor and a 16x16, 120 Volt, 1575 Watt, 13.3 Amp Flash Dryer

I am wondering... can it be the flash dryer? Or any other ideas of what it might be... I really need help!!!

Thanx!

Here is a pic of the shirt they sent me...

 

[Red Leaf]

Looks like an under curing issue to me. Do you have a temp gun for when you're curing?


Red Leaf Screen Printing & Embroidery

 

[MAZARINEMOON]

I do... But I don't think it's a very reliable one... It's a master craft. I was using it on the ink with the flash dryer over the tee and it was showing too high of temps too fast.. Indicating close to 300 and the ink wasn't partially gelled.

I did use it for the tee's coming out of the dryer... Making sure the ink was between 330 and 400.

 

[phatdaddy]

Hey bud.

You have under and uneven curing. I think it looks cool like that but that's beside the point. Those little dryers are trouble. I remember when I worked at a t shop in the 90's I was told 320 for 90 seconds...

No one seems to go by that, least of all the companies selling these little dryers. I was using a ebay equivalent at a job last year and I cranked up the heat and ran the belt so slow I spent killer time waiting to load...

You need a consistent,even 320. Cotton scorches inthe low 400's, poly will melt and hold the temp longer, so just hitting 320 works.

I found a great Hicks 12 foot dryer for a thousand bucks on kijiji im edmonton. ..

Since you've already got the dryer you need to run it slower and hotter. You can get in the 330-350 range safely. Over-cure is obbious, a burny-bubbly-frothy mess
..

On a side note, cow-town is my hometown
Hey neighbor!

 

[sben763]

First off I read you flashed for 30 sec before putting on a second coat. You should never flash that long if doing a print flash print. You should only flash long enough to gel the first layer. Then apply the second coat. Depending on your distance of flash dryer and ink being used 10-15 sec is max. I have my flash 1"-2" above and can flash in just 3-7 sec. White also needs a long dwell time in the conveyor. I run every shirt a min of 1 min in the heat chamber. Never 1 washout.

People should realize just cause the surface reaches 320F doesn't mean the bottom of the later will reach full cure.

 

[MAZARINEMOON]

Hey bud.

You have under and uneven curing. I think it looks cool like that but that's beside the point. Those little dryers are trouble. I remember when I worked at a t shop in the 90's I was told 320 for 90 seconds...

No one seems to go by that, least of all the companies selling these little dryers. I was using a ebay equivalent at a job last year and I cranked up the heat and ran the belt so slow I spent killer time waiting to load...

You need a consistent,even 320. Cotton scorches inthe low 400's, poly will melt and hold the temp longer, so just hitting 320 works.

I found a great Hicks 12 foot dryer for a thousand bucks on kijiji im edmonton. ..

Since you've already got the dryer you need to run it slower and hotter. You can get in the 330-350 range safely. Over-cure is obbious, a burny-bubbly-frothy mess
..

On a side note, cow-town is my hometown
Hey neighbor!

Thanx for helping out a fellow Calgarian

It does look like uneven curing huh? I do believe that could largely be due to my flash dryer. I like to print oversized prints and it likes to gel only the middle of its heating pad... leaving the edges still wet to the touch.

I also think that since I do not have room for a 12 foot conveyor at this time that maybe I will have to make due with a temp control addition to my conveyor.

Do you think I should turn up the heat more... if the shirts are already going through so quickly to keep them from getting scorched? maybe I need to turn down the heat a little in order to keep the apparel in the oven longer?

Sigh... It would be nice to be able to just get the right equipment now and save the hassle... btw... I looked for that dryer your spoke of on Kijiji... I think it may be gone already. too bad.

We should get together and do up some printing... its always nice to know another friendly printer so close by. Cheers!

 

[phatdaddy]

Hey April.

I'm in Ponoka now. Rarely get to Calgary these days unless there's a good Kijiji find... I'm looking into an epson4880 in calgary, might be down there this week?? Having the nozzle check mailed to me...

I just got an M&R squeegee sharpener from Allsold for 600 bucks...

You just ave to keep your eyes on it.

BTW That dryer is sold, TO ME, hehehehe... I bought his press too. I talked to Doug at Stanley's Sign and Screen and he sold him the press a few years ago for 5700+ freight and I got it for a grand... Needed a little TLC but I'm handy...

Stanley's Sign and screen are great suppliers and a great resource. You can talk to Wendy in the Calgary office or Doug in Edmonton. I've known Doug for years and he's been doing this all his life(Stanley was his dad.) Doug gave me an Atlas 5-way exposure unit for free!(sold me a new blanket...) They have a blog and forum too.
Screen printing product and technical news from Stanley's, Canada.
I even buy stuff from them when I know they're screwing me...

Anyway...

Yea, you should off-set your flash, have it low like Sean said and just slowly pass the garment under it. I've had cohesion issues, it's a big deal. Normally I can have my flash 3" up and directly across from me if the design is sized appropriately. I can print, unload and load within flash time. However if it's hoodies or something and I'm a little slower, I half-spin the platten over and unload and load off-set so the garment doesn't cure under the flash. If the under base cures there's going to be issues.

Flash and Conveyor Dryers are important tools. A good printer can stumble their way through with junk presses if need be, but you don't wanna be a heat-gunnin' or oven bake'n... Frankly, I think these small conveyors are just a small step above...

When I was using one, I was on the phone with Doug screaming, "how do I get a minute and a half, when it takes 7 seconds to go through the dryer???" He didn't have an answer for me other than "get a new dryer."

You can likely get through with the equipment you have, but you will be slow. It's fine if you're making good money on the garments(and I bet you are)or doing it part-time but the faster you get the more money you can make and that requires professional equipment. You have to be very careful because there is a whole market around small-scale screen printing and alot of it is hobby level masquerading as commercial.

I gotta go print some hoodies.

 

[clarkvstewart]

OK so to clarify for a newbie with only a flash dryer who's literally gotten into this gig two days ago what do you recommend for flash dryer settings. How close to the garment how hot how long. I've got a fast flash brand dryer

 

[furian14]

First off I read you flashed for 30 sec before putting on a second coat. You should never flash that long if doing a print flash print. You should only flash long enough to gel the first layer. Then apply the second coat. Depending on your distance of flash dryer and ink being used 10-15 sec is max. I have my flash 1"-2" above and can flash in just 3-7 sec. White also needs a long dwell time in the conveyor. I run every shirt a min of 1 min in the heat chamber. Never 1 washout.

People should realize just cause the surface reaches 320F doesn't mean the bottom of the later will reach full cure.

I was just thinking the same thing...

 

[furian14]

Hello Everyone...

I have been using this forum for quite some time now, but this is the first post that I am entering.

I have been screen printing for about a year now and I would like to say that I some what know what I am doing (FINALLY!) until just recently...

One of my current customers has just gotten a hold of me and informed me that some of the ink has worn off in the wash... for a second time!

After the first order I did for them, they told me that the ink on a tee or two washed off and it caused me alarm... as I want my product to go out perfectly. I did some studying on this forum and found that I may have been allowing my ink to over cure under the flash dryer and considered that to be the root of the evil, misbehaving ink!

So on my last order... I ensured that my technique and process was as impeccable as I could manage...

* I used a 156 mesh screen,
* wilflex ink... which I mixed well with a hand held electric beater
* I added 10% reducer
* ensured all ink cleared the screen before gel curing it...
* I stood by the flash dryer on more than a few of the garments, counting out loud the time that passed before finding the gel-ly sweet spot... then counted with each shirt that went under to remove the heat in time (about 30 seconds)
* I applied a second coat before putting the tee into the conveyor dryer

...Now I just don't understand what could have gone wrong??? both the flash dryer and conveyor dryer that I use are from Ryonet. I have the little black buddy conveyor and a 16x16, 120 Volt, 1575 Watt, 13.3 Amp Flash Dryer

I am wondering... can it be the flash dryer? Or any other ideas of what it might be... I really need help!!!

Thanx!

Here is a pic of the shirt they sent me...

If its not fully cured on your end is there anything that your customer might be doing to the shirt like during the washing or drying cycle like not turning the shirt inside out before wash or putting it in the dryer instead of hang drying? Just curious.

 

[furian14]

OK so to clarify for a newbie with only a flash dryer who's literally gotten into this gig two days ago what do you recommend for flash dryer settings. How close to the garment how hot how long. I've got a fast flash brand dryer

Curing with the flash cure approx three inches from pallet until temp is approx. 340 usually works for me. Good Luck

 

[clarkvstewart]

Great thanks. Fell *** back into this. I'm a lawyer. Family friend who did my firm t shirts wanted out so we got his equipment. Now wife wants a heat press for all the momma t shirts on baseball soccer teams. I'd rather be able to make my own firm shirts whenever I want and let her make jerseys to pay my office rent!

 

[phatdaddy]

Great thanks. Fell *** back into this. I'm a lawyer.

hahahaaaa!! Welcome to the wonderful world of screen printing!

If you get good equipment she might just become the breadwinner...

 

[phatdaddy]

Plastisol will puff a bit of smoke when it cures. I'm not talking about getting it so hot to start smoking, you have to watch carefully. One quick release of smoke "puff", done.

 

[phatdaddy]

If its not fully cured on your end is there anything that your customer might be doing to the shirt like during the washing or drying cycle like not turning the shirt inside out before wash or putting it in the dryer instead of hang drying? Just curious.

Customer can return them and make you do them right, for free...

Not a position you want to find yourself in.

You should always suggest people wash inside out for the first wash, the dryer may help with the curing from the inside, but it's no substitute for a properly cured print.