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Well, sometimes the "truth" may be a bit different on your end than maybe my end or even Mammath's end or at least how we all might view this same "truth".

That is why again, we are all on the same team here (hopefully anyways) and we have discussions about stuff. I am sure Mammoth was not trying to be snarky at all.
 

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I am not sure if you even read my post because there was nothing really emotional about it..

I simply layed out 2 different business models I noticed work for making money with white ink. You know, like the thread title suggests. If you have any ideas in how white ink can or cannot make money that is great, if not, well, if not....
Your post that I quoted was unusually positive compared with all your other negative posts I've read lately which is what I was referring to with my comment.

I think this thread is a bit silly because of course you can make money printing with white ink. Most of my profit comes from having the ability to print on dark garments.
 

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I started this thread to gain some insight into peoples views on the profitability of printing white ink. I got some very good information, and weighed my options on weather to print with white ink or not to print with white ink. For that I thank everyone. Then the thread took a turn I did not see coming for what reason I'm not quite sure. So thanks for the information and I'm now done with this thread. And yes we are all on the same team or we would not be on this forum in the first place.
 

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Your post that I quoted was unusually positive compared with all your other negative posts I've read lately which is what I was referring to with my comment.

I think this thread is a bit silly because of course you can make money printing with white ink. Most of my profit comes from having the ability to print on dark garments.
You can view my posts as negative, and this is true sometimes. The whole point is to not only share the positive experiences with people, but the negative ones as well. The reason for this is so people can avoid making some of the same mistakes I have since I have already made them, and it looks like most people were thankful for my honesty.

Some people may view this as negative, but others simply see my mistakes, and take it as a lesson on what to avoid doing.

At the end of the day the thread is called "white ink is it a money maker" and all you stated was " I think this thread is a bit silly because of course you can make money printing with white ink." Although I agree with you about white ink being able to make money, I believe making posts like this are pointless and vague because you dont specifically state HOW someone can make money printing white ink ????

Do they just go out and start finding jobs for white ink ?? Is there a specific business model you can share ?? What price point do you normally charge customers in order to make a profit ??
ANYTHING ?? SOMETHING ?? LOL

Again, you can make money with white ink, but you can also lose money as well.

Mammath stated he came back after 8 days and did a medium clean and his machine was good to go, but I can tell you this. If I went away for 8 days without printing, I would be backed up 100s of orders, have many angry customers, and it would require a bit more then a medium cleaning.
I am not sure how one even pays for a printer yet can go 8 days without printing ?? Do tell ?
 

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Well, sometimes the "truth" may be a bit different on your end than maybe my end or even Mammath's end or at least how we all might view this same "truth".

That is why again, we are all on the same team here (hopefully anyways) and we have discussions about stuff. I am sure Mammoth was not trying to be snarky at all.
You are correct, so hopefully one day mammath can post his version of truth, or even a opinion on white ink, and we can compare it, but if you are simply going to put down what I say without being specific about the topic on hand its a problem.

Again, I doubt he was being snarky either, but I am commenting on weather or not white ink is a money maker, so instead of worrying about my "feelings" LOL lets keep to the TOPIC at hand. WHITE INK and if it makes money and how ??

The oldest trick in the book, attack the person not the subject.
 

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You can view my posts as negative, and this is true sometimes. The whole point is to not only share the positive experiences with people, but the negative ones as well. The reason for this is so people can avoid making some of the same mistakes I have since I have already made them, and it looks like most people were thankful for my honesty.

Some people may view this as negative, but others simply see my mistakes, and take it as a lesson on what to avoid doing.

At the end of the day the thread is called "white ink is it a money maker" and all you stated was " I think this thread is a bit silly because of course you can make money printing with white ink." Although I agree with you about white ink being able to make money, I believe making posts like this are pointless and vague because you dont specifically state HOW someone can make money printing white ink ????

Do they just go out and start finding jobs for white ink ?? Is there a specific business model you can share ?? What price point do you normally charge customers in order to make a profit ??
ANYTHING ?? SOMETHING ?? LOL

Again, you can make money with white ink, but you can also lose money as well.

Mammath stated he came back after 8 days and did a medium clean and his machine was good to go, but I can tell you this. If I went away for 8 days without printing, I would be backed up 100s of orders, have many angry customers, and it would require a bit more then a medium cleaning.
I am not sure how one even pays for a printer yet can go 8 days without printing ?? Do tell ?
Let me stop you right there sunshine.

I was on annual leave with my family for 7 nights on the Gold Coast QLD. Lovely place, you should visit...

You are beginning to sound stupid and bitter.

I print 11 months of the year. I still have another 3 weeks of rest up my sleeve. That's planning mate. ;)
 

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I started this thread to gain some insight into peoples views on the profitability of printing white ink. I got some very good information, and weighed my options on weather to print with white ink or not to print with white ink. For that I thank everyone. Then the thread took a turn I did not see coming for what reason I'm not quite sure. So thanks for the information and I'm now done with this thread. And yes we are all on the same team or we would not be on this forum in the first place.
LOL the only place this thread took a turn for was people being afraid to admit that you can lose money with this printer just as easy as you can make it.

If this isnt true, keep waiting for someone to break down there business model for you............
 

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Let me stop you right the sunshine.

I was on annual leave with my family for 7 nights on the Gold Coast QLD. Lovely place, you should visit...

You are beginning to sound stupid and bitter.

I print 11 months of the year. I still have another 3 weeks of rest up my sleeve. That's planning mate. ;)
Awesome!!
I have employees running my machines right now. When I go on vacation, again, I have employees running my machines. I cannot afford 1 week down time, so I am very impressed you can.

What does this have to do with the thread, everything, because again, if your printer isnt running every day, and you are not maxing out profit per shirt, white ink costs you, it doesnt make you squat. That is what I have found, and this is the opinion and advice I will continue to give.

If it doesnt have to do with white ink and overall profit, I could care less :)
 

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Any business is a risk..regardless of the business model, industry or how much capital you have. Name one instance where anything in life is a guarantee. Failing at business is not an "if" it's a "when"...it's how you deal with those failures, reflect on the mistakes made and move forward to achieve the goals set.

I have incorporated 5 businesses, made money with some and lost money with some but I learned a valuable lesson with every business I have ever owned. Without risk, there is no reward!
 

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Any business is a risk..regardless of the business model, industry or how much capital you have. Name one instance where anything in life is a guarantee. Failing at business is not an "if" it's a "when"...it's how you deal with those failures, reflect on the mistakes made and move forward to achieve the goals set.

I have incorporated 5 businesses, made money with some and lost money with some but I learned a valuable lesson with every business I have ever owned. Without risk, there is no reward!
This is all great advice and very true, but has nothing to do with the Epson F2000 and weather you can make money with or without white ink..

If you purchase this machine and only print 2 black shirts a day, you will spend more money on cleanings every month then you do profit on the black shirts, so there is def a risk for people running a specific business model, so its all great to be vague and say you win or lose sometimes, dont you think it would be better to tell someone the EXACT business models that do not work for white ink.

You mentioned you had some business's fail, welllllllllll maybe you should post on what went wrong so people can avoid it, but if it has nothing to do with white ink, keep it out this thread.......

I am sorry to say, but I am sick of people giving advice to people that dont live with the consequences or even have anything to do with the title at hand.

People want to know, can you or can you not make money with white ink, and if yes or no, EXPLAIN HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

How hard is it to understand hahaha Its not a yes or a no answer, people want real life explanation on why its a yes or a no, but all people can focus on is what they think someones emotions are or how much they type lol
 

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Awesome!!
I have employees running my machines right now. When I go on vacation, again, I have employees running my machines. I cannot afford 1 week down time, so I am very impressed you can.

What does this have to do with the thread, everything, because again, if your printer isnt running every day, and you are not maxing out profit per shirt, white ink costs you, it doesnt make you squat. That is what I have found, and this is the opinion and advice I will continue to give.

If it doesnt have to do with white ink and overall profit, I could care less :)
Your business model is different to mine. My business doesn't need to run 24/7 to be profitable. :rolleyes:
 

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This is all great advice and very true, but has nothing to do with the Epson F2000 and weather you can make money with or without white ink..

If you purchase this machine and only print 2 black shirts a day, you will spend more money on cleanings every month then you do profit on the black shirts, so there is def a risk for people running a specific business model, so its all great to be vague and say you win or lose sometimes, dont you think it would be better to tell someone the EXACT business models that do not work for white ink.

You mentioned you had some business's fail, welllllllllll maybe you should post on what went wrong so people can avoid it, but if it has nothing to do with white ink, keep it out this thread.......

I am sorry to say, but I am sick of people giving advice to people that dont live with the consequences or even have anything to do with the title at hand.

People want to know, can you or can you not make money with white ink, and if yes or no, EXPLAIN HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

How hard is it to understand hahaha Its not a yes or a no answer, people want real life explanation on why its a yes or a no, but all people can focus on is what they think someones emotions are or how much they type lol
It's obvious you're struggling and you want someone to tell you how to make graphic reproduction onto textiles profitable. A thorough business plan prior to jumping into the market would have served you well. Sorry to hear you're doing it tough.
 

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This is all great advice and very true, but has nothing to do with the Epson F2000 and weather you can make money with or without white ink..

If you purchase this machine and only print 2 black shirts a day, you will spend more money on cleanings every month then you do profit on the black shirts, so there is def a risk for people running a specific business model, so its all great to be vague and say you win or lose sometimes, dont you think it would be better to tell someone the EXACT business models that do not work for white ink.

You mentioned you had some business's fail, welllllllllll maybe you should post on what went wrong so people can avoid it, but if it has nothing to do with white ink, keep it out this thread.......

I am sorry to say, but I am sick of people giving advice to people that dont live with the consequences or even have anything to do with the title at hand.

People want to know, can you or can you not make money with white ink, and if yes or no, EXPLAIN HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

How hard is it to understand hahaha Its not a yes or a no answer, people want real life explanation on why its a yes or a no, but all people can focus on is what they think someones emotions are or how much they type lol
Why would anyone spend $20k on a printer to only print 2 shirts per day? Of course it will not make money. You have to work in order to make money. It sounds like you drank the kool-aid of a salesperson saying if you buy it they will come.

If nobody was making money printing with white ink then Epson wouldn't have ever gotten into the business. Their plan isn't about making money selling printers...their business model is to sell ink. If you don't sell shirts and consume the ink then they don't make money replenishing your supplies. No DTG printer manufacturer would spend the amount of time and money developing new products if they weren't successful in the real world with users such as yourself. All the manufacturers have a vested interest in you being successful...the more successful you are the more ink and subsequently printers you will need.

It's unfortunate that you have not been successful with white ink, however I know of an Epson owner who has printed 30K+ prints in 12 mos of ownership. If we take the average profit margin of $5 per print x 30,000 prints that owner has had a gross profit of $150,000 with a single printer...75% or more of those sales involved white ink. Nearly 8 times the cost of the printer purchase price. I don't know about you but if my investment makes me 8 times the cost in 12 mos I call that very successful. This customer, while they have experienced a few hurdles, plans to purchase another F2000 to add to their growing business.

I have mentioned several ways people are successful in the DTG industry using white ink. I am not sure what exactly you expect from users. Many people do not want to layout how they are successful or where their sales come from because they have taken the time and money required to earn those customers or gain market share within a given niche. To expect someone to divulge 100% of their business plan so you can copy it is not something I would expect and neither should you.
 

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There are a lot of ways to look at this topic I would say since it has veered off course a few times.

If you only have a DTG machine and your margins are close then I guess you pretty much much must hustle your butt off to pay the bills and to pay for the machine. All lot of what you say has merit.

If you are like my shop where we do a lot of everything and are very diverse I don't mind if my machine makes it's money back over time because I screen print and blah blah blah.

I still say that white is a money maker for most because most customers (mine anyway) like bright prints on dark colors and prints on black , even white only, with a DTG look amazing.

Others who gear towards a different market can get along just fine without ever printing a dark colored t-shirt with their DTG. I guess I can see that.
 

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I think it doesn't matter if you print White or just CMYK if you allow for all costs to run the F2000 you will be fine.
I have no staff and run my business from home so my overheads are completely different to a already established Screen printing business that is expanding into the DTG market and because of this I wont need to run hundreds of shirts per day to make a profit

I can do this on 100 shirts per week :) selling white shirts for $25 and Dark Shirts for $35 no matter the size, the good thing with this "business model" is that if I have a run of small 100x100 prints I make more money.

$10 Net Profit x 100 = $1000 p'wk doing maybe 25-30hrs of actual work, that's not bad

I think having some sales skills helps too ;)
for example.... you could say have you seen what we can do on Black shirts...NO... wow!!! really!!! let me show you the awesome quality of our premium range ASColour Tees they cost $40 but man will you love the feel and look everytime you put it on

Just my two cents :p

I love reading the posts on this forum and seeing the great results people are having it gives me a boost :)

Cheers
Ryan
 

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Just a few remarks:

1.) This is the EPSON SureColor forum; most people already own a white-ink printer, others are working for an EPSON distributor, Belquette(?), so the answers - even with the best intentions - are probably biased.

2.) People with white-ink printer already have a business model which uses the white ink extensively so they cannot even imagine a CMYK only business model anymore.

3.) There is a CMYK only business model however that works. We sold over 60K "light only" CMYK shirts with one single Brother-541 and the demand for light DTG shirts are still high. We made at least $5 per shirt - many times even more - so the printer made us at least $300K WITHOUT ANY PROBLEM. Practically no maintenance, it was simply cleaned a few times, original print heads, no parts have been changed (except a few $17 wiper cleaner cassettes), no morning test-print, nothing. Last time the printer was open in January for a 10-minutes cap station cleaning. Now we are in May...

4.) The big difference between a white-ink and a CMYK only printer is that the CMYK only doesn't cost money if it is not used (no expensive and mandatory daily, weekly, monthly maintenance), it has only 4 heads instead of 8 like the Brother-381, there is no need for regular part replacements. Also, no need for pretreatment, and the printing speed is 2x, 3x higher than the white ink printing speed. The whole CMYK system is much more forgiving for business model "imperfections".

5.) The extra cost of the white-ink printing drives the t-shirt selling prices higher. For a "jumbo" 14"x16" CMYK image you don't have to charge $10+$25= $35 like you do (you have to) if you print with white ink. You make enough profit at the $19.99 range with the CMYK only image.

6.) Finding enough customers who are ready to pay $35 for a single shirt is much more difficult than finding customers in the $10-$15 price range. DTG printed t-shirts are (unfortunately) considered as commodity items where the price is the main factor.

I am NOT saying that printing with white ink is wrong, or there is no business model for that, I am just saying that we made at least as much money with a CMYK-only printer as the "EPSON super owner" who had 35K white image within one year, but we had no headache, we had no maintenance, we had no extra costs, we didn't mess with the pretreatment, we didn't spend twice or three times as much actual printing time for the same profit and the t-shirt wash fastness wasn't a hit or miss.

True, we had to send some customers away, and we spent some extra time convincing customers to accept light colored t-shirts.

We will purchase white ink printer if (when)


  • the mandatory maintenance time will be negligible,
  • the cost of maintenance (wasted ink, spare part costs, head replacements, etc.) will be VERY low,
  • the printing speed will be substantially higher,
  • the ink curing time will be in the 30 sec range (instead of 3 min)
  • the pretreatment liquid will be more forgiving, and the cost will be lower (Image Armor is not far from that),
  • the ink cost will be lower.

The industry is definitely going to this direction but it is far from there. (In my opinion...) In the mean time we use much more profitable technologies, like wide format printing, embroidery, rhinestone, sublimation, etc.. Those are all proven money makers for us, while the white ink printer - in this stage of development - probably would be more of a burden than a blessing.

But "times are changing..."
 
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