White and Black on a Red Shirt

1948 Views 14 Replies 5 Participants Last post by HumbleShirts, Apr 16, 2012

INKJESS

Discussion Starter · Apr 6, 2012

Gots a question. I have not had much luck when printing white and black on a colored shirt. If I lay the white down first, black last, the black always looks like crap. I think mainly due to the difference in thickness'. Especially true when the black has to out line the white and the white is so much thicker on the T.
My question, what problems might occur if I lay down the black first with a spread, then the white last? I don't have problems with just white on black t's, they come out nice and crisp. So are there any issues to this process I might be overlooking?

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hazeremover

· #2 · Apr 6, 2012

INKJESS said:
My question, what problems might occur if I lay down the black first with a spread, then the white last? I don't have problems with just white on black t's, they come out nice and crisp. So are there any issues to this process I might be overlooking?

That's the ideal approach to printing colored tees inkjess. Works great on simple spot colors, even some high end halftone prints. Get the black out of the way and concentrate on the next colors down (provided the art allows you to).

Artwork wise there is no need to spread the black. Butt register, white reversed out of the black. Black down first, flash then print your white then either print, flash print or single pass if your using a premium white ink. You may get by without flashing the black if it's on a high mesh. Either way, there is no need to glop down black on a low mesh in the first place.

For this to be successful (or any screen printing for that matter) your screen mesh has to be nice and tight. Hello crisp halftones and edges! A baggy screen, especially with the white second will look like crap. May have to make an off contact adjustment to suit your press or printing technique.

Black doesn't always have to print last. I wish that misconception would vanish from screen printing. It would eliminate some common printing headaches.

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Reactions: 3

INKJESS

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 7, 2012

hazeremover said:
That's the ideal approach to printing colored tees inkjess. Works great on simple spot colors, even some high end halftone prints. Get the black out of the way and concentrate on the next colors down (provided the art allows you to).

Artwork wise there is no need to spread the black. Butt register, white reversed out of the black. Black down first, flash then print your white then either print, flash print or single pass if your using a premium white ink. You may get by without flashing the black if it's on a high mesh. Either way, there is no need to glop down black on a low mesh in the first place.

For this to be successful (or any screen printing for that matter) your screen mesh has to be nice and tight. Hello crisp halftones and edges! A baggy screen, especially with the white second will look like crap. May have to make an off contact adjustment to suit your press or printing technique.

Black doesn't always have to print last. I wish that misconception would vanish from screen printing. It would eliminate some common printing headaches.

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I've always had it in my head "black last, black last", because I was taught that way. Cool, that changes some things. Thanks again

ScreenFoo

· #4 · Apr 7, 2012

hazeremover said:
Black doesn't always have to print last. I wish that misconception would vanish from screen printing. It would eliminate some common printing headaches.

I'm in total agreement with this--although there are more than a few other misconceptions I could do without...

sben763

· #5 · Apr 8, 2012

I break all the rules and just try different things all the time. Funny thing is that I find things that work better for me that I have been told not to do.

HumbleShirts

· #6 · Apr 8, 2012

INKJESS said:
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I've always had it in my head "black last, black last", because I was taught that way. Cool, that changes some things. Thanks again

This doesn't always apply to black either. There a lot of times you need to print the darkest color first before a white. We print a navy first on red tees with a 5 color print we always do. White tends to spread a bit and when printing first, we'll get a lighter blue halo because the reflex blue is semi transparent and not opaque enough to cover any white that is below it.

Reactions: 1

INKJESS

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 15, 2012

Ok, going a step further with this. If I layed down my black first on this red t and actually used it as an underbase, the detail of the white on top of this I think would be awesome and easier to achieve.

So, I tried it. The detail IS awesome and I didn't have to screw around trying to line up a butt registration, which would have been difficult because there are some fine hair lines in this design. But, the larger white portion layed over the black is coming out a bit fuzzy even with 3 layers from a 160 mesh. Is this because of this technique over the black or because I'm pushing too hard into the shirt do you think?

I realize there's an added lip now because of the lack of butt registration, but it seems like a lesser of two evil's at this point. A lip for better detail.

HumbleShirts

· #8 · Apr 15, 2012

Don't use black as an underbase. The proper way to print this design would be about a 230 mesh for the black with no overprinting of the white. Print black, print white, flash and print white again. If you're lousy at butt registration, flash the black, then print flash print the white.

INKJESS

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 15, 2012

HTT130 said:
Don't use black as an underbase. The proper way to print this design would be about a 230 mesh for the black with no overprinting of the white. Print black, print white, flash and print white again. If you're lousy at butt registration, flash the black, then print flash print the white.

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I don't so much have a problem with butt registration I just thought I may have found a way to avoid it on certain jobs. Mainly because I hate when I think I have everything lined up just find out I'm a hair off after spreading ink. Then try to clean things up, move an adjustment and then I'm 2 hairs off the other way, lol. Back and forth for an hour, drives me nuts sometimes. I think you're right though, gonna have to ditch the black underbase!!

INKJESS

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 16, 2012 (Edited)

Well, they're done, and I must say I'm stoked after being a little worried. They came out nice.
I ended up doing away with the black base and spread, went with the butt reg. I really really focused on clearing the screen on the pass. It took me several clear strokes to do it but it really payed off, the white turned out awesome considering the problems I was having early on with the threads poking through, "fibrilation"?
I used to just make a good pass, clear stroke and on to the next.
I attached a photo

sben763

· #11 · Apr 16, 2012

Looks great

INKJESS

Discussion Starter · #12 · Apr 16, 2012

sben763 said:
Looks great

Thanks bro, I can use every vote of confidence I can get my hands on, lol.

I'm not sure where'd I'd be without this site and your guys' help. Thanks SERIOUSLY for your advice.

Still unsure if I can survive in this biz, but I'm givin' it hell, I'm trying. It's gotta work, I love it. I don't want to have to go work for the man again.

HumbleShirts

· #13 · Apr 16, 2012

INKJESS said:
Well, they're done, and I must say I'm stoked after being a little worried. They came out nice.
I ended up doing away with the black base and spread, went with the butt reg. I really really focused on clearing the screen on the pass. It took me several clear strokes to do it but it really payed off, the white turned out awesome considering the problems I was having early on with the threads poking through, "fibrilation"?
I used to just make a good pass, clear stroke and on to the next.
I attached a photo

There you go......

Is the bottle a halftone? I would have done 2 black screens for that job if it was. Spot black on 166 and the halftone on a 272. But that's just me and it depends on the halftone output.

Good job.

INKJESS

Discussion Starter · #14 · Apr 16, 2012

HTT130 said:
There you go......

Is the bottle a halftone? I would have done 2 black screens for that job if it was. Spot black on 166 and the halftone on a 272. But that's just me and it depends on the halftone output.

Good job.

Yeah, the bottle was a halftone so the sillouete would stand out a little more. I think you're right on using a second screen for the halftone because for whatever reason the black screen wasn't wanting to clear very easily and when I'd make a second pass the bottle would darken a little more, which I didn't want.

HumbleShirts

· #15 · Apr 16, 2012

That would be due to halftones spreading. You would want to print the spot black first and get that the way you want it and then print the halftone black. That will keep your spread to a minimum.

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