What is wrong with my print setup? Help appreciated.

4999 Views 20 Replies 9 Participants Last post by SAKTEES, Mar 21, 2014

Basikboy

Discussion Starter · Mar 13, 2014 (Edited)

I am printing a 2 color front crest. Its a Red and White print (Union Maxopake Plastisol Inks) on a 100% Gildan Charcoal Gray T-Shirt. I am using a White underbase with a flash and second pass and 1 single Red stroke over that. The White print is a 100 Mesh and the Red is a 160 Mesh (was originally using a 110 mesh but tried a higher mesh in hopes the print would look better). I am using a 70 durometer squeegee. My problem is the Red print seems to keep getting under the screen and looking like the attached picture. I tried printing the Red print directly to a test shirt instead of over the White Ink and the print looked perfect. Something is happening when I print the Red over the White. What am I doing wrong here?

I tried adjusting my off contact, tried both a push and pull stroke, flooded the screen, not sure what else i can do. Any ideas? Thank you for any and all feedback.

The attached pic is just a quick mockup of what is happening with the print. I forgot to take a picture of the actual test shirts before I left the shop.

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TLK

· #2 · Mar 13, 2014

What do you mean by getting under the screen?

We don't use Maxopaque, but I thought the idea with it is it prints onto dark garments without an under base?

If you're under basing with white then over printing with a red then you'd be better off using a soft hand plastisol through higher mesh.

Have a look at Union inks product guide to see which inks to use:

[media]http://www.unionink.com/unionink/Product%20Guide/Union%20Ink%20Product%20Guide%202010.pdf[/media]

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Ripcord

· #3 · Mar 13, 2014

Use standard ink for your red overprint (Union Ultrasoft.) Or, if you want, you can add some extender to the red Maxopake to thin it down for better flow. The overprint doesn't need to be opaque.

It looks as though you may be forcing the red print down rather than smoothly laying it down. (Probably partially due to your opaque red being thicker than regular plastisol.) This can cause the ink creep you're seeing.

Lay down your underbase, flash it, and allow it to cool off. Then smoothly print your red (with your new thinner ink...) and see how it looks. Sometimes with red and blue overprints I've found that to make it look real nice can require another flash and print.

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Basikboy

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 13, 2014

So I would not print flash print the White to make sure this part of the design is opaque?

Ripcord

· #5 · Mar 13, 2014

Basikboy said:
So I would not print flash print the White to make sure this part of the design is opaque?

The white should be opaque P/F/P but the red should not. Regular inks or extended opaques lay down smoother and easier than opaques.

Basikboy

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 13, 2014

Hmm, here I was thinking maybe the Red Ink was actually too runny even though it's a max opaque. Ok, I will pick up some UltraSoft Red at **** Blick and give that a try.

TLK

· #7 · Mar 13, 2014

Yeah and I would use a 196-230 mesh for overprinting next time

Basikboy

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 13, 2014

TLK I actually was initially using a 110 and changed to a 160. I am assuming using an even higher mesh count is more to do with Ink flow than detail?

Omni

· #9 · Mar 13, 2014

Basikboy said:
Hmm, here I was thinking maybe the Red Ink was actually too runny even though it's a max opaque. Ok, I will pick up some UltraSoft Red at **** Blick and give that a try.

I like what Ripcord had to say...What he is describing, I believe, is that with the thicker Maxopake Red, you are required to put too much squeegee pressure on your print stroke in order to force it through the 160 mesh, which is "smashing" the ink on your base white, causing it to spread out.....With the thinner Ultrasoft, you can back off on your squeegee pressure which, as he describes, will produce a smooth laydown of your top color, without the edge blemish you are getting......Off contact will be extremely important on that 2nd color.....and absolutely take your time in allowing your flashed base to cool down, as Ripcord recommended, to keep your 2nd screen from sticking to it......

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Basikboy

Discussion Starter · #10 · Mar 13, 2014

Omni, does an eight of an Inch still apply when concerning off contact?

Omni

· #11 · Mar 13, 2014

Basikboy said:
Omni, does an eight of an Inch still apply when concerning off contact?

An 8th inch is a good start, depending on how tight your screen is....The tighter your screen is, the smaller the off contact can be....This dictates how much squeegee pressure you will need for a good ink laydown....The less pressure, as Ripcord was talking for smooth laydown, the better......As you raise your off contact, more squeegee pressure is required for your print......This is an area where getting a bunch of scrap shirts and performing experiments with different off contacts will help you hone in on the target......A higher off contact can also be of benefit, as it brings your screen off the print quicker, thereby leaving less of a chance for smearing to occur.....This experimentation phase you are in now will help you find the "best of both worlds" ....The more experience you get, this stuff will become "2nd nature"......Your mesh choices are good to work with at this time.....However, if you still are getting smudged edges on your 2nd color after a lot of experimentation, you could move up to a 175 for your 2nd color and still achieve excellent coverage, with a little more added control....Not sure what your coating methods are for emulsion, but that does play a role as well, but for now, I think you are better off to experiment with what you have on press now...

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Brandz13

· #12 · Mar 13, 2014

Squeegee angle sharp no flood. quick stroke. DONE.

TLK

· #13 · Mar 13, 2014

Basikboy said:
TLK I actually was initially using a 110 and changed to a 160. I am assuming using an even higher mesh count is more to do with Ink flow than detail?

Yeah, a thinner ink than maxopaque and higher mesh. That's what I'd do anyway. Have a read of this article. It might help you out. IMAGES - THE JOURNAL FOR TEXTILE SCREENPRINTING ,EMBROIDERY, PROMOTIONAL CLOTHING AND GARMENT DECORATION

Basikboy

Discussion Starter · #14 · Mar 13, 2014

Thanks again everybody! The thinner UltraSoft Ink did the trick. Might have looked a little better if I went with a higher mesh but they looked good enough. Thank you all very much for your feedback! Love these forums.

Reactions: 3

Brandz13

· #15 · Mar 14, 2014

I believe with all the physics in manual screen printing.. I agree with Omni your problem seems to start with your 'OFF CONTACT" I don't believe it was the viscosity of your ink at all.

Basikboy

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 15, 2014

Brandz, my off contact didn't change with the new Ink. It was still an eighth of an inch and it printed so much better.

cycocyco

· #17 · Mar 19, 2014

My first insticts are with your down white and flash. If the white wasn't fully gelled and was still tacky or warm the you will see bleed like you describe. Mesh count and viscocity shouldn't be relevant, however Brandz13 hit it on the head: strong pressure and hit it once. Don't play with it.

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frawgwild

· #18 · Mar 19, 2014 (Edited)

All the above advice is correct. It could be any of the above problems and solution. You just have to play with it. I would lean towards the Off-Contact and the White not quite cured enough. Lifts the shirts and when it releases just grazes the Large open areas of mesh with red ink. And it doesn't take much.

One bit of advice I got from the Union Factory rep, Mike was, Get the Union Extender Base. While in the situation you were in, you could've used it and wouldn't lose any time getting the job out at the end of the day. You can actually mix 3:1, Base:Ink to help thin your ink out. Making it flow better. You will lose (that's what they tell you in the literature) some opacity, but I didn't experience much of that. Our schools colors are Black and Gold and I went through the Wilflex Buffalo White like you wouldn't believe. And in the Climate I'm in, even on a warm winter day you needed a shovel to get that stuff out of the bucket.

I got to the point of warming it up on the top of the dryer and then mix about 1 part ink to 1/2 part of Extender. The extender is going to do similar to what the softhand extender is going to do except give you the softhand. But it will reduce that athletic feel a bit so not bad. This will keep you from having to have two types of inks for those Odd colors where you'll Never use a gallon of or you just can't bring yourself to paying about the same for a quart as you would a gallon.

Adios

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Brandz13

· #19 · Mar 19, 2014

I learned all my chops in Computer overlay multicolored high quality and zero tolerance registrations. I printed on acetates, polycarbonate and used UV clears for optical windows and printed textures using 420 mesh counts and Stainless steel meshes at super high Newton tensions. We used microscopes and loops to view any dust scratches etc. If one thread in a roll of mesh was woven in the weft incorrectly it left a visible mark in the textures, optical clears and prints. So by physics I have seen just about everything. Although in my over 20 years of printing I've never seen nor had an issue with ink's running and bleeding like you are experiencing. T-shirts were a completely "Loose" medium with lots of room for error when I started a t-shirt company in the early 80's. I still find a great bunch of info here and I'm still learning. "OLD DOG NEW TRICKS!!! Thanks T-Shrt Forums!!

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jroa

· #20 · Mar 20, 2014

I had the same problem for a long time using black ink (international) the black is so thin that even when I used 160 mesh it would creep under the screen. I thought maybe it was my flood technique but then figured out what was the cause. these few steps have helped me so maybe it can help you

1. The thinner the ink the higher the mesh, I would recommend a 200 mesh count with thinner inks like black and your red.

2.When using an under base always use a higher mesh count, the white under base does most of the work the ink should just lay down a thin layer.

3. This seems like common sense but see this problem often - I found that having a the correct off contact and a tight screen made a huge difference.

4. when planning to use an under base I use a 1-1 emulsion application no need for more ink to build up in stencil,thin coat is good.

5.Lastly, for this particular circumstance I use a sharp squeegee, use a push technique, medium pressure, no Flood! if necessary I do a double pass

Good Luck my Friend!

I know how frustrating these things are but with a little patience you will find that its a simple fix.

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