[chonkymonky]

hello amigos. hope you're all doing well.

i have a question about something that popped into my mind this morning. i was wondering if anyone here has ever tried using a vinyl cutout on a screen in the place of emulsion.

is this something that can even be done? this is what i had in mind: a design could be cut out on a vinyl cutter..the vinyl could then be weeded and then applied on to the screen on the flat side. this way the squegee will not touch the vinyl..thus avoiding the vinyl from moving or peeling. i figure a high count screen (like 320) could be used to give the vinly more area to stick to.

would the plastisol ink cause the adhesive on the vinyl to not stick properly?

if this works, i could avoid all the mess of applying the emulsion, washing out the design, waiting for it to dry and then cleaning afterwards. especially if all i want is a couple of tees.

i will be purchasing a vinyl cutter soon and just wanted to know if this is something that has ever been tried..and if i should even waste my time with it.

any feedback on the subject would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

Miguel

 

[Spot_Worker]

....Stuff like this how work-arounds, and new ways happen. 2 things, 1: would the vinyl leave a sticky film after. 2: would the area that is closed to non printing handle the pressure, and not come off in the middle of the job. Still Thinking.

 

[veedub3]

Check out this thread on TSF

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/screen-printing/t56556.html#post335661

Veedub3

 

[chonkymonky]

thanks veedub..thats exactly the info i was looking for.

 

[adawg2252]

There are also a number of videos on youtube where people have tried this. It seems that it's only effective on low qty jobs because like the above said, eventually the pressure peels the vinyl off the screen.

 

[chonkymonky]

yeah i figured the adhesive on the vinyl would eventually start to soften and the vinyl would start to peel off. it's perfect for short runs..which is what i had in mind.

i've had to turn away too many clients asking for a small number of dark tees with light colored design because it just wasnt worth the effort of setting up screens for only a few tees.

i'm just wondering if the vinyl adhesive is easy to remove from the screen.

thanks again for the info.

hey andrew..would you happen to have a link to these videos you speak of? i searched on youtube and could not find anything on the subject. thnks.

 

[shadow Apparel]

I have used contact paper befor but after 4 of 5 prints you have to start over again. I also work with bleach resist so I have been wondering slightly the same thin however in place of vinyl i wish to use .010 thick stainless still and have a water jet cut the stencil out that way i can use my stainless steel template for screenprints or bleach resist.Any thoughts?

 

[fadzuli]

actually wat i did was to get the heat transfer vinyls and have it pressed on the mesh. after which have it done up on the wooden/alu frame. once done then jus remove the mesh for you to keep or dispose of.

so far so gd but ive yet to test if for long runs. in addition, vinyls are as detailed as your vinyl can cut. im not sure if you can do halftones, fine prints, etc with vinyl cutters.

 

[adawg2252]

hey andrew..would you happen to have a link to these videos you speak of? i searched on youtube and could not find anything on the subject. thnks.

This was the specific video I was talking about. He more or less does exactly what you're trying to do. He cuts the vinyl out and uses it right to the screen for printing t-shirts.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXmmXkvh4pI[/media]

He goes through it step by step. Sorry it took me so long to post back, I was trying to find the link. It's not titled accurately enough but I did eventually find it.

Enjoy!

 

[Spot_Worker]

....I see. You saw the odd way he was printing, cool though. The yellow screen, that like what a 305 mesh or so. I saw some years ago emulsion that came on a backing. The backing was clear. You mist the screen with water and place the emulsion on it.You would rub it down like the vinyl, and peel the backing let dry.

 

[chonkymonky]

ok... i did some more reading on the subject in a different thread here in TSF.

apparently the thickness of the vinyl seems to be an issue since its thicker than a layer of emulsion. so if you have the vinyl pasted on the side of the screen that makes contact with the tee, you will get a thick layer of ink on the t-shirt. i dont know much about vinyl so im not sure if you can get it any thinner. if you have the design pasted on the squegee side..then you will have issues with designs that have "floating" pieces. since they have little adhesive holding them..the squeegee will eventually start to move them around. im sure peeling edges would also be a problem if you have the vinyl on the squeegee side.

this is still something i want to try for myself. once i get my vinyl cutter im gonna have a go at it. thnks again to you all for all the help.

Miguel

 

[adawg2252]

....I see. You saw the odd way he was printing, cool though. The yellow screen, that like what a 305 mesh or so. I saw some years ago emulsion that came on a backing. The backing was clear. You mist the screen with water and place the emulsion on it.You would rub it down like the vinyl, and peel the backing let dry.

It could have been a 305 or a 280, as those generally come yellow, but you can get as low as 125 with yellow mesh. It just depends on your supplier.

As far as the emulsion with the backing, that's Capillary Film. It's a thin layer of emulsion with a backing sheet. You do cut it out and apply it to the screen. Some apply with water, some with special degreasers, some can be coated with liquid emulsion (specific to brand and product lines) to apply them. You pull the backing sheet after application and expose it like a regular coated screen.

Pros: -consistent thickness across the screen
-easy to apply
-comes in variety of thicknesses and styles
-good shelf life
-very little waste (cut only what you need)

Cons: -learning curve for application can be tough
-expensive
-requires more expensive exposure equipment (needs more light)


As far as the vinyl thickness goes, that correlates directly to the capillary film in the same way. The thicker the film, the more ink deposit you will get. The thinner it is, the less ink deposit. That's how you get "high-density" prints. Thick film.

liquid emulsion would only apply a thin coat, and the more coats you add would make it thicker but it wouldn't be as consistent as a capillary film.

Just food for thought

 

[Progeny]

I would imagine the thinnest would be the garment vinyl heatpressed onto the screen as it will be pressed into the mesh.

 

[chonkymonky]

i know very little about vinyl..but i would'nt it be difficult to remove the vinyl from the screen if it is heat pressed on like lee mentioned? or is there a solvent of some kind that can remove the adhesive without damaging the screen?

 

[Progeny]

I have never tried it but it would be fused to the screen so hard to remove, unless one of those sprays to remove vinyl from garments would take it off, probably too much hassle and I'm not sure what effect it would have on the screen.

 

[ino]

I should think that the whole concept of heat pressing vinyl is for it never to come off the shirts.
I don't think heat pressing on a screen would be a smart thing to try.

 

[fadzuli]

ive tried heatpressing vinyl on mesh before and it works like an emulsion. like i said in my previous post, you would have to replace the mesh completely when you're done and the image on the vinyl can only be as detailed as you can cut with your vinyl cutter.

so depending on ur usage, for example you wan to keep the template for future use then imho heatpressed vinyl on mesh is a gd idea. coz all u have to do is jus replace the mesh on the frame.

other than that it works very similar to emulsion.

 

[treadhead]

Hmmmm..this could be a cost effective way to produce lower volume (less than a couple dozen) shirts with simple designs. Perhaps using heatpress vinyl for say up to 3 to 6 shirts then use the vinyl as a template from that point up to 24 shirts then get into emulstion beyond that.

I'd have to run some numbers but this may end up being cheaper than using thermoflex (at about $2.50 to $3.00 per linear foot) above 3 to 6 shirts and cheaper than trying to to the "full gambut" of emulsion, film, etc.

Something I'll have to give some more thought to....

 

[chonkymonky]

is replacing the mesh that easy a pocess that you would rather do it than washing out the emulsion? dont you need special tools and glue? plus time for the glue to dry?

 

[fadzuli]

well if you have the tools then its quite fast. such as the frame, gun tacker, masking tape or glue, lots of patience, training and wathing youtube videos. hehe.