Upgrade to an automatic ... What would you recommend?

2988 Views 14 Replies 10 Participants Last post by maddogprints, Oct 30, 2014

Allygator

Discussion Starter · Mar 8, 2014

I have a Lawson manual 4/6 press with a lawson 8ft conveyor dryer. I am using mostly Newman screens that are 18" by 20" here are my questions. I am looking to switch to an automatic press what is a reasonably priced entry level automatic you would recommend? What additional or unseen expenses will I incur after switching to an automatic? What other equipment changes will I need to make if any? I am trying to weigh this out so any GOOd information is appreciated! Thanks in advance!

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rippetm1

· #2 · Mar 8, 2014

I did this last year. I moved to a brown 6 color 7 station automatic press. I liked brown because of it being electric and space savings. We mostly used wood screens with the manual so we switched to aluminum screens because we got the alignment system brown has to help setup multi color jobs. Although we can and do use wood screens. We use 20 x 24 screens with this press. I bought the new quartz flash and also updated to a 36 wide conveyor. Which keeps up nicely with the auto. Machine is built like a tank with low maintenance on it. I would buy this machine again and again. We have grown 3 times over since putting this machine in my shop

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binkspot

· #3 · Mar 9, 2014

More info would help answer your questions.
Why do you want to move into an auto.
Are you planning to use your existing screens or willing to go larger.
How much room do you have.
How many colors do you think you need.
New or used.
Long term plans for growth.
How much electric do you have available.
Your average run size.
Do you have a compressor now big enough to run a auto.

I know these are generic questions and the answers can change as your business grows or market changes.

Generally speaking budget $8-$10k on top of the cost of a small auto. This number can be lowered if going with a all electric press like the Brown. That number can change depending on how much you can do yourself. That number will cover a compressor, chiller (air dryer), air lines, electrical for press, compressor and flash, freight, install expenses, etc.

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Allygator

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 9, 2014

binkspot said:
More info would help answer your questions.
Why do you want to move into an auto.
Are you planning to use your existing screens or willing to go larger.
How much room do you have.
How many colors do you think you need.
New or used.
Long term plans for growth.
How much electric do you have available.
Your average run size.
Do you have a compressor now big enough to run a auto.

I know these are generic questions and the answers can change as your business grows or market changes.

Generally speaking budget $8-$10k on top of the cost of a small auto. This number can be lowered if going with a all electric press like the Brown. That number can change depending on how much you can do yourself. That number will cover a compressor, chiller (air dryer), air lines, electrical for press, compressor and flash, freight, install expenses, etc.

I am looking at am auto for a couple reasons one is it will minimize my time in the shop. Two we have been quoting several jobs over 1000 pieces and we landed one that is due in the summer that is 3500 pieces. I was looking to get a used unit. I would need a smaller unit due to the fact we opperate out of a two car garage. We have single phase power and our electrical panel has plenty of space. No I do not have a compressor.

binkspot

· #5 · Mar 9, 2014 (Edited)

Like mentioned above Brown may be an option or a Anatol Titan or Horizon, Workhorse Freedom or Javelin they also have a new press, name slips me now but if it was my money I'd be looking at a M&R Diamondback or Sportsman. There are other MFG out there depending on your budget.
Like I said before you will be looking at $8-$10k on top of the cost of the press by the time it's all said and done.
A few things to consider.
Max image size, get as large of a print area you can.
By as many heads as you can fit/afford. You may think you can get away with a 6 color but promises you there will be jobs that will come along needing one more head.
If buying used have a reputable tech inspect the machine before buying. Please don't have a buddy who's a car mechanic look at it. There are key things to check. You don't want to get it set up and find out it's only good for an anchor.
Do not buy some off brand that has been out of business for 10 years. Sure you can source parts at Grainger or another supply house but if something should go wrong with the Plc you may have an anchor.
You may not be thinking of it now but will a registration system work with the press. These will save countless hours setting up jobs.
Can you get different pallets for the press such as sleeve or youth.
Can you grow with the machine. In other words can you move up to larger screens in the future.
Resale value of the press. When you are ready to move up can you get your money back out of the press.
Is service available locally. If you need service is there someone who is within a few hours drive or does the tech have to fly across the country.
Have a reputable tech set the press up. If it is not done properly the press may not operate properly.
If using a broker check references. There are many great ones out there but just as many bad ones.

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rippetm1

· #6 · Mar 10, 2014

Sounds like the Brown is something you should look at. When I purchased mine at the Indy Show last year. Mike (owner of Brown) came to my place to check everything out before delivery. And the service tech (another Mike) is out of this world. Knows everything about the machine and printing. I have called him several times at all hours and he answers and is helpful always. PM me and I can give you the total rundown of what it cost me to put this in.

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hoogie

· #7 · Mar 14, 2014

I remember back about 5 years ago i was going threw the same questions you are. I choose to go with a used javie..I have never looked back since. the jav was and is a great intro press. I leaned that way due to the fact of there flashbacks and still being able to use that head to print so my six color is a true six that i've done alot of sim process jobs on using all the colors. but even though i have a jav., i just ordered a 10/12 sportsman should be in a month...i'm going to be running both these presses at the same time..what you need to relise is that with whatever press you choose to go with it'll will pay off in the end. repeatable prints are a must if you start getting into the #'s you see in the future. Now back to some of your other concerns...Screens start stocking up now 23x31's rollers all day long if you think 20 is enough times it by 2 with my javi i started with 25 rollers and now i'm up to around 100. think about mesh expense with autos you'll be going from 110-125 up to 156 for base and 230's for top colors, air compresser you'll need one. i looked around forever and found Eaton out of ohio theres many others but eaton was priced well and a 5 yr warrenty. now along with Screens now you need to look at a dryier. I still use brown 48" wide electric i love the brown dryier, not a big fan of there autos but just my preference. over the price of the press that you find you can add around another 10 grand...tech for setup if you by used. unforseen expenses if you choose to wait for the auto...like i did i had forsight enough to start buying rollers the air compresser and stuff before the press that way i had those expenses out of the way. I cant wait for the 10/12 M&R to arrive but i'll never kick myself for my javi. the thing is built like a tank and with a little premaintence i've never had it down for a day. but then again i'm a little anal and can hear the press from my office and if i hear something off i find it and get the part coming...Support is another thing for the press blue has unmatched support hands down...but also tuff/workhorse has always been there when i had questions. another thing is exposier unit if yours isnt up to snuff with exposing halftones just another thought dip tanks for reclaiming pressure washer...the list is long squeegee sharpner just somethings for you to look out for...thanks

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OnTimeTees

· #8 · Apr 4, 2014

We have three M&R Sportsman presses. They all run 10 to 12 hours a day and there are rarely any problems. I can't say enough about M&R and their service!

nation03

· #9 · Jun 26, 2014

hoogie said:
I remember back about 5 years ago i was going threw the same questions you are. I choose to go with a used javie..I have never looked back since. the jav was and is a great intro press. I leaned that way due to the fact of there flashbacks and still being able to use that head to print so my six color is a true six that i've done alot of sim process jobs on using all the colors. but even though i have a jav., i just ordered a 10/12 sportsman should be in a month...i'm going to be running both these presses at the same time..what you need to relise is that with whatever press you choose to go with it'll will pay off in the end. repeatable prints are a must if you start getting into the #'s you see in the future. Now back to some of your other concerns...Screens start stocking up now 23x31's rollers all day long if you think 20 is enough times it by 2 with my javi i started with 25 rollers and now i'm up to around 100. think about mesh expense with autos you'll be going from 110-125 up to 156 for base and 230's for top colors, air compresser you'll need one. i looked around forever and found Eaton out of ohio theres many others but eaton was priced well and a 5 yr warrenty. now along with Screens now you need to look at a dryier. I still use brown 48" wide electric i love the brown dryier, not a big fan of there autos but just my preference. over the price of the press that you find you can add around another 10 grand...tech for setup if you by used. unforseen expenses if you choose to wait for the auto...like i did i had forsight enough to start buying rollers the air compresser and stuff before the press that way i had those expenses out of the way. I cant wait for the 10/12 M&R to arrive but i'll never kick myself for my javi. the thing is built like a tank and with a little premaintence i've never had it down for a day. but then again i'm a little anal and can hear the press from my office and if i hear something off i find it and get the part coming...Support is another thing for the press blue has unmatched support hands down...but also tuff/workhorse has always been there when i had questions. another thing is exposier unit if yours isnt up to snuff with exposing halftones just another thought dip tanks for reclaiming pressure washer...the list is long squeegee sharpner just somethings for you to look out for...thanks

Sorry to revive an old thread, but what were your production numbers like when doing a sim process job on the javelin?

hoogie

· #10 · Jun 26, 2014

nation03 said:
Sorry to revive an old thread, but what were your production numbers like when doing a sim process job on the javelin?

No need to be sorry, good question...I'd like to say 500 an hr...but that's just not realistic...lol I would say on an average 250 an hr...that's just with me or my printer loading, no need for an unloader...with the flashbacks going you can load and unload with plenty of time to keep up with the press...Base I run print/print flash to get a nice even base with sharp edges on squeegees. And don't forget scrapping ink on the screens during the run...hence the 250hr pace...not fast the M&R is over twice that quick even using inferred flashes...quartz you'd need a loader and unloader to max out rate on that press...

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nation03

· #11 · Jun 27, 2014

Thanks Charlie. I'm a one man shop so even 250 an hour isn't bad. Hell, a sim process job over 100 per hour sounds great for me lol.

swachal

· #12 · Jul 5, 2014

We went with the Brown Electra Jr, 6 over 7. The size and power requirements the first consideration in our purchase. You can find presses with all the bells and whistles you want but if it doesn't fit in your shop it is only going to stay on your wish list The Brown has most everything we need and it fits into the space we have. We have a lot of 18x20 roller frames that fit on the press but the image size on that frame was a max 14x10.5 , and the 14 is the width. Our 20x24 static frames gave us a little more length, maybe an inch or so. We now are going with the 20x28 EZ frames, which gives us the maximum print area the printer will allow, about 15" long. The specs on the press says a 24" stroke. That is correct but remember you give up nearly 5" on either end of the stroke for the squeegee and flood bar which also means the image must be placed precisely on the screen to get that length. The longer frames will also work fine on our manual to print longer prints on sweat pants. I should be able to print 20" long or more down the leg.

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fdsales

· #13 · Oct 30, 2014

Purchased a Brown Electra Print Jr model 6 color 7 station back in Nov 2010. This model uses the smaller 20x24 screens, but only has a footprint of 96" diameter, and fit nicely in my 20' x 22' space, along w/ a Brown 36" x 8' dryer, Brown halogen exposure unit w/ drybox, and other accessories like wash out tank, tables, screen rack, ink rack, etc. Plugs right into standard 120V 20A electric outlet, and NO air compressor needed. Don't think I've had any parts failures or issues w/ the unit. Have printed up to 5 color job, but the pallet coming right off the flash dryer can get hot, and the ink sticks to the back of the screen. Paid $30,000 back in 2010.
Now looking to upgrade to the larger 7C/8 model using 23' x 31" screens, faster 240V motors to move the pallets faster, and Brown offered to trade in. So the original press cost me $5,000 per year, or $416.00/mo to own, w/ no parts to replace, just keep the machine greased. I make that $416 back in 1 week (or less) every month, so you do the math. Yes, current machine has some wear on some parts on the print heads 1 & 2 could use replacement (we print a LOT of 1 & 2 color designs on dark shirts, so heads 1 & 2 have a lot of prints on them), but I could just swap these 2 print heads out w/ heads 3 (never used as this is where flash unit is) & head 5 (least used actual print head), and would be good for another 3-4 years. Even after 4 years, still holds registration very well.
My only regret, not getting a bigger machine w/ larger screens & more colors in the beginning, but just could not fit in the space I have. Will just barely squeeze the new machine in w/ it's 120" diameter, but I also can make some layout changes.

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garagegirl

· #14 · Oct 30, 2014

Regardless of what you buy, make sure that either YOU can work on minor repairs or at least the seller has someone who can talk you through it.
We started with a 1s/4c Lawson manual. Moved up station by station to 4.
First auto was a Lawson 4/6. Liked it until we also got an 8/10 that would rotate for us.
Recently bought a Lawson 6/8. Love them both. Get much, much more done out of a 2-car garage with these.
People will badmouth Lawson, but they ALWAYS talk us through any minor thing that we question.
We've never been treated anything but kind by their parts department.
We paid $12,500 for the 8/10 and recently gave $6k for the 6/8. The 4/6 was $5k.
Always used. Might have to make a day or overnight trip to pick one up, but you know
like me how quickly people get IN and get OUT of screen printing.
Changed our lives. Good luck.

maddogprints

· #15 · Oct 30, 2014

to each there own , but we bleed M&R Blue at our shop , best press if you ask me

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