True or false? Halftones are the same thing as gradients in vector art?
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WHY I AM ASKING?
My LOCAL SEPARATOR company told me that he would not be able to screen print gradations. He said that they would need me to convert the gradations to half tones.
My REMOTE SEPARATOR company called "24 Hour Artwork," told me: "I will have the production manager call you halftones are gradients same thing on vector art."
Can someone clear up where the misinformation or miscommunication is at in this particular instance? I crave to know why this simple job has cost me 4 days loss in print production TIME with the going back and forth of explanations and instructions given to me by both parties.
Thank you in advance, everyone.
My LOCAL SEPARATOR company told me that he would not be able to screen print gradations. He said that they would need me to convert the gradations to half tones.
My REMOTE SEPARATOR company called "24 Hour Artwork," told me: "I will have the production manager call you halftones are gradients same thing on vector art."
Can someone clear up where the misinformation or miscommunication is at in this particular instance? I crave to know why this simple job has cost me 4 days loss in print production TIME with the going back and forth of explanations and instructions given to me by both parties.
Thank you in advance, everyone.
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It's like this with spot color separations: If you have a box made with a spot color, Red 185C for example. If that box is 100 solid color, then it prints solid black in the film. If you select that box, and slide the percentage slider to 99%, it will print as a halftone. It's either 100% solid, or it's a halftone. Therefore when dealing with gradients, the portion of a gradient which is not 100 solid color, will automatically be a halftone if you're printing spot color separations. This is not the case if you're printing color composites but I'm guessing you're talking about separations. The thing is, the actual halftones are generated when printed. Within Illustrator, they don't look like halftones. The actual halftone dots are created by the printer. So, yes the gradient will produce halftones, and now they are not really halftones as you view them directly in Illustrator.
The fact is, gradient printing does get tricky. It's possible that your printer doesn't want to be responsible for translating your idea into dots. Maybe he is allowing your to give him something which he can simply press print on and whatever the result is your responsibility, not his. I'm always making adjustments on customers gradient art. Sometimes customers do interesting things such as working with transparency that has to be modified/translated to get a result.
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This might help....
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwT2ZWk0s2E[/MEDIA]
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwT2ZWk0s2E[/MEDIA]
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The printer is correct that the gradients need to be converted to halftone dots to be printed, but this is normally the printers responsibility. Different printers and different printing techniques use different screen frequencies, angles, and dot shapes and the printer is the one who knows exactly what options he needs for optimal results.
It's not the artist's responsibility to tell the printer how to print a job, just as the printer isn't responsible to tell the artist how a design should look.
It's not the artist's responsibility to tell the printer how to print a job, just as the printer isn't responsible to tell the artist how a design should look.
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Bottom line is you'll need a different printer to do the work. Sadly it is becoming more common that printers cherry pick the simple work. My local and regular screenprinter won't even do blends which I consider a basic skill. Many won't work with bitmap images because they are afraid of separation.
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I don't think its as much cherry picking as it is many simply can't do halftones properly. My first couple of 1 color halftone jobs went easy and came out great. Start adding multi color, over multiple mesh counts and it starts to get more involved. Then add inkjet printer dot gain plus on press dot gain. Then different textures on textiles. I get calls from other printers all the time for these prints. I charge more for these prints for many reasons. First all the time I have invested, calibrating printer to rip, then calibrating for on press dot gain. Not many are willing to put the time and effort into this. 2nd its easier to screw up a screen
Whether it be a simple gradient or a complex gradient the printer should be the one doing the conversion as he is the one who will know all the variables.
Whether it be a simple gradient or a complex gradient the printer should be the one doing the conversion as he is the one who will know all the variables.
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It doesn't make sense that the printer would ask you to do the halftones. You could send him a halftone file at 150 lpi and a 45 degree angle which would be absolutely worthless to him, but say that the offset printer you use does just fine with it.
It's up to the printer to create the halftones using the specs that he prefers. If he doesn't don't know how, then (as mentioned above,) take the job elsewhere.
It's up to the printer to create the halftones using the specs that he prefers. If he doesn't don't know how, then (as mentioned above,) take the job elsewhere.
the print shop may not out put film or if they do they don't have a RIP or a graphic artist to deal with it.
if your print shop can't output halftone dots on film, the halftone pattern can be done in the separation. you will need to find out what mesh count the print shop will be using for the job so the separation artist can generate the appropriate halftones.
if your print shop can't output halftone dots on film, the halftone pattern can be done in the separation. you will need to find out what mesh count the print shop will be using for the job so the separation artist can generate the appropriate halftones.
All I know is that this experience was the last straw for me. I'm looking for some basic equipment now so I can get my feet wet now on the printing side.
I vow "never" to cherry pick / nickle n dime anyone. That is, not UNLESS they are a definite pain in the butt to work with or if I don't like them. Ha haaaaaaa. LOL
I do "regular business" with these guys, sending them my print work usually every 2-3 weeks.
SEE the screen shot attached. BY THE WAY, THIS IS NOT DESIGN WORK THAT I DID, this is just a sample of the EXACT image that had to be converted.
I have a feeling that as a "regular customer" that I should NOT have been charged $35 to convert this simple gradient into a halftone.
Your thoughts?
I vow "never" to cherry pick / nickle n dime anyone. That is, not UNLESS they are a definite pain in the butt to work with or if I don't like them. Ha haaaaaaa. LOL
I do "regular business" with these guys, sending them my print work usually every 2-3 weeks.
SEE the screen shot attached. BY THE WAY, THIS IS NOT DESIGN WORK THAT I DID, this is just a sample of the EXACT image that had to be converted.
I have a feeling that as a "regular customer" that I should NOT have been charged $35 to convert this simple gradient into a halftone.
Your thoughts?
Attachments
35$ is a fair fee. it may only take a few minutes or just a simple click of an action script, or it could take an hour to manipulate the file depending on how it was setup. In my opinion it would have been best to have the halftones done as part of the separation process and included in the price.
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Well, I know what you mean, but also picking and prioritizing jobs that you are offered can add to your profitability.
When I started in the business, my policy was to accept any and all work. After all, I thought, who am I to turn away a $25 job? $25 is $25. What I soon learned was that I always had enough work but my challenge was getting it all done in a timely manner. I began to be a little more selective based on the circumstances. If I have three big jobs that need to be done in three days and somebody calls me and wants a single shirt for a joke and he wants it today...well, that extra $25 is going to literally cost me two hours of production time between designing it, getting the shirt, making the screen, printing and (the biggest time waster of all...) stopping work while he comes to my shop to pick it up. This ends up taking at least half an hour in itself. So I don't say no to anything, but often I'll refer jobs like this to a local DTG printer.
That being said, if it's Christmas Eve and nothing much is going on, I might very well accept a rush job for one shirt. In that case, yeah I'll take the $25....And, as you mentioned, if a customer truly is a pain in the butt (I've only had a few that I would place in that category) it's best to politely refer them elsewhere or accept work from them on your terms only (price and schedule.)
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Heh. Love this statement... Being designer/printer for years, I'm in a constant conundrum with myself.
Have had so called designers tell me how to produce product by suppling supposed "print ready" production art. Only to tell them that the type is too close to cuts or their step is off and the crop/cut marks won't work properly the way they have them laid out.
~ What? you want me to run your business cards one up in the middle of an 8.5x11 sheet? Sure...
Later.
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Yeah me too. I had an "artist" once submit composite film (this was in the old days...) for an 80 page saddle stitched book and the margins on the pages were 1/8" inch. When I told him he hadn't allowed for enough margin and hadn't adjusted the inner pages as necessary, he asked why didn't anyone tell him that before he spent hundreds of dollars on negatives? I didn't have an answer other than he hadn't asked anyone before he did it, and we assumed that if he was supplying film he knew what he was doing...
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Converting to a halftone is part of the film process. It is a simple process when doing manually or non existent when using a RIP. I do cherry pick jobs but its usually the stuff no one else is doing or doing correctly. I target those jobs. Yes I do spot jobs but honestly I would rather be doing simulated. Almost opposite then most shops near me.
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But at least your being honest. Just from this forum, I have had so many printers be told crap from other printers and designers. I have sepped and halftoned many projects for many members in the spirt of learning. Sometimes there wasn't time to reach that goal with everyone and I just did what needed done.
As a printer I can tell you if your going to do this type of work, printer, sales, designer, and so on every person has a job and should learn it and know what the others responsibilities are. The printer should be doing the halftone film output as well as making mesh choices. Yes I can tell you what to use from a file I have done for others and what works in my shop may bot work in yours. ie, I output a fie at 55 LPI and say use a 230-280 screen. Some may not be able to hold a 55 LPI on a 230 but could on a 280. By "industry standards" <--- hate that term a 230 should max out at 50 LPI where I can hold 55 LPI on a 205 from 5%-98% without issue. Or someone may have problems putting enough ink down with 1 stroke on a 280 where as I can
There are so many variables when printing that the printer should be the one making the majority of the decisions in the process as they know what their shop can produce and the best way. If the shop doesn't they need to learn.
Well "this" is what ended up getting printed for me. I am "thoroughly" pissed off for real!
There is NO WAY that I can give this to my client! This garbage! *smh* And just when I was having a great 2014 for all of my t shirts. *smh*
Can anyone tell me how the heck this guy messed up this artwork and did halftones on artwork that is supposed to be silk screen printed with a sort of cartoon / gradient type feel to it?
See the attachment please. *smh*
There is NO WAY that I can give this to my client! This garbage! *smh* And just when I was having a great 2014 for all of my t shirts. *smh*
Can anyone tell me how the heck this guy messed up this artwork and did halftones on artwork that is supposed to be silk screen printed with a sort of cartoon / gradient type feel to it?
See the attachment please. *smh*
Attachments
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Can you ask your printer what RIP they used. What LPI and what is the size of you print. And where are the gradients in the text?
Well not quite sure I can get that information unfortunately. I don't think we are going to be doing business anymore together.
I will attempt to ask them, but before I do, since this may be the very last communication that I have with this separator, do you also need to know what mesh the printer used or any other information?
I will attempt to ask them, but before I do, since this may be the very last communication that I have with this separator, do you also need to know what mesh the printer used or any other information?
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