[monkeylantern]

Evening all.

Our new site will be up and going in a few weeks, and so we're gradually lurching towards the inevitable marketing phase.

Previously, I've sold to boutiques and on our old site (taken down last year as I was emigrating to Australia from the UK....yes, being easily able to emigrate meant we sold very well ). This time I'm aiming even higher, and so the whole marketing beast now has to be faced.

I'm planning this time to launch as an eBay store (a damn swanky eBay store though, not you run-of-the-mill vile rubbish, as I'm a long time HTML fiddler). We did a test run a few months ago, and sales, from the get-go, were superb.

However, I also have a sizable marketing budget to splash around. What are your top tips for marketing spending? I know many of you purchase space and list on Rodney's site. How has that altered click-through/sales? Any noticable difference if you creep up the list? (Obviously, you have to be polite about tshirtcountdown.com, else Rodney will smack you.)

Any other recommended places? Anyone have experience with the various Adwords programs? What gives the biggest bang-for-your-buck?

I've been screenprinting and selling tshirts for many years....I'm an internet advertising virgin.

 

[monkeylantern]

I should add: my main worry is all of the 5 or 6 main t-shirt listing sites seem to be flooded with very specific types of shirts: simple sentence humour, the shock value rude, relgious shirts, and political shirts.

Our work is far more the Threadless style of arty-surrealism, for which there doesn't seem to be much of an advertising base through sites (even though it's one of the best selling niches)

 

[Solmu]

I know many of you purchase space and list on Rodney's site. How has that altered click-through/sales? Any noticable difference if you creep up the list? (Obviously, you have to be polite about tshirtcountdown.com, else Rodney will smack you.)

At the risk of offending people, I'm going to be completely honest about my opinion of T-Shirt Countdown. I've never advertised on the site, and I have no idea how useful it is for sales. My experience with T-Shirt Countdown has only been as a potential customer, and do bear in mind that my opinion reflects only that. Also, all my complaints are about the content of the sites on there, which Rodney is not responsible for - I am not addressing the mechanisms of the site he has put in place. I also have no intention of pointing fingers at specific sites.

People who don't like a site tend to leave without saying anything, so you never know what people don't like about a site. So for once I'm not going to do that. Two things to bear in mind 1) I am only one type of customer, and for some of you I am not your target customer. 2) Don't dismiss what I have to say too quickly though, because I definitely represent a certain t-shirt buying demographic. With that out of the way...

When I first came to T-Shirt Countdown, it was because I wanted to buy more t-shirts for myself. I knew people interested in getting into the business, but didn't think I would be one of them. So there was no ulterior business motivations - I was only a (potential) customer.

On that visit, I found T-Shirt Countdown to be pretty much useless for my needs. I have a good memory for brands and websites, and only one stuck in my mind as being worth remembering - paperplain.com. They were one of only a very small number of sites that was actually professional and selling a quality product (they didn't close a sale with me because 1) They don't have my size, 2) They might be a little too plain (I'm still undecided). I still think of them as a good company and visit from time to time to see if anything's changed).

I found almost all the sites fell into one of three categories in my mind:

1) Anti and Pro Bush shirts. Mostly specifically Bush related rather than just political in general. Some of these were well done, but most weren't.
2) Really twee religious shirts. Some of these had good messages and ideas, but I didn't like the design of any of them.
3) Really, really crude shirts. I wasn't offended by them, but they simply weren't funny. Add to that the fact that they were all very badly drawn and they didn't capture my interest.

The sites that didn't fall into one of those three categories (e.g. paperplain) were the ones I was most likely to visit. I have no interest in group 1 or 2 from that list, and 3 needs to be clever (not just offensive for the sake of it) to attract my interest.

Personally I was looking for clever slogans or nice graphic design. Crude or geeky humour, random elements, etc. Or for something to take me by surprise - I would never go looking for a site like paperplain, but I did visit. I buy a pretty wide range of shirts, but T-Shirt Countdown featured a very narrow choice.

One of the results of this was that I paid extra attention to the paid advertisements. Normally I would ignore them astutely, but I was there because I wanted to buy t-shirts and those in the countdown just weren't doing it for me. I remember literally feeling desperate to get off the site, but wanting to leave with something. Sites people had paid money to advertise were generally a lot better, so I paid more attention to those ads.

As a potential advertiser, I think this is actually a good sign for you. People come to T-Shirt Countdown because they want to buy a t-shirt - and yet there's nothing there worth buying. Advertise something worth buying and you can have a monopoly.

So that was then, what about now? Has the site changed in my opinion? I went and had another look, stopping at 220 (I always stop around 200, how long does it go on for?).

Yes and no. There are a lot more dedicated websites, and less people running CP Shops. There's a lot more people selling screen printed t-shirts. To me those are both big plusses. In general the calibre has raised quite a bit, but I'm still a t-shirt buyer and I still didn't buy anything. There have been improvements, but the problems I mentioned about only being a narrow range of genres are still present.

Most of the humour is either related to penises or feces, more often than not combined with sexism or bigotry. I didn't find that funny when I was six, and I certainly don't now. There are a lot more graphical shirts, I wouldn't buy any of them but it's good to see some diversity.

There are a few companies who I think are doing a decent job, some were there before, some weren't (some examples: parachutemonkey.com, catch23.com, ptees.com). I'd buy a couple of catch23 shirts if they didn't have their url on them, and I'd buy parachute's scurvy shirt if they weren't using AA. I might buy a couple of ptees shirts if they carried my size (I've liked that site ever since the owner first posted a message about it on these forums).

Others are flawed, but raising the quality standard, e.g. cracksmokingshirts.com, sackwear.com - I'm not a fan of either, but they're better than a lot of other sites doing the same thing. grooveking.com - a site that is a great example of why you shouldn't use flash to design an eCommerce site, but they look professional and have some nice tees (the website looks good, but it's very annoying to actually use).

In general I'd say the standard has raised, but there's still plenty of room for someone better to come along. Sites like Threadless & Busted Tees would blow any of these out of the water. I buy a lot of different webcomic t-shirts and most of those sites are run better than pretty much anything on T-Shirt Countdown (and often the t-shirts are just a sideline for them).

One piece of advice for those submitting t-shirts to the T-Shirt Countdown voting: if you have a good shirt printed on a colour (i.e. not black or white) then use that one. Colour attracts the eye more, but more importantly colour is one of the many subtle signs of a higher quality product (most of the shirts I end up buying are black, but I never start off looking for black).

Obviously the content will only improve as better sites start seeing it as a viable advertising outlet. I'd say in the short term it's worth considering because of the big-fish-small-pond scenario, and in the longer term as the quality raises everyone who survives will benefit. At the moment there's no reason for a customer to return to T-Shirt Countdown. After going once and finding very little worth your time, why would you go back? If it was full of vibrant submissions it would be worth returning to to check for updates.

Having had a quick look over the T-shirt Countdown advertising rates I'd say it's worth seriously considering. Obviously it'll be interesting to see what anyone here who has actually tried it has to say, but the rates do seem very affordable.

 

[monkeylantern]

An excellent review....and pretty much sums up my first feelings for both tshirtcountdown.com and the other half a dozen similar sites.

I also only was really drawn to the advert block, half-way down the menu on the left. If I ever consider using them, it will probably be there.

I also worry about de-valuing my brand....I really don't want to be sandwiched between an iron-on "Bush is Satan!" and cafepress "Smell my Beaver!" shirt on the actual listing.

To me, that's what happened to those companies you pointed out. They have some excellent stuff....but I think are sullied in that company.

What I'm most distressed about is that you've discovered another t-shirt company involving monkeys........NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (in my best James Earl Jones voice)

 

[Solmu]

I also only was really drawn to the advert block, half-way down the menu on the left. If I ever consider using them, it will probably be there.

It's funny you should say that - that was the one I probably noticed least. The one I noticed most was the square on the top right, followed by the rectangle on the very top of the page.

I also worry about de-valuing my brand....I really don't want to be sandwiched between an iron-on "Bush is Satan!" and cafepress "Smell my Beaver!" shirt on the actual listing.

To me, that's what happened to those companies you pointed out. They have some excellent stuff....but I think are sullied in that company.

That's a very good point I hadn't entirely considered (and obviously it applies to wherever you advertise).

Ultimately though I don't think it'll do you any harm. Someone sensitive enough to let it tarnish your reputation would presumably not be at a site they don't like - so they wouldn't ever see the ads in question. If they tried to play the guilt by association game it would implicate themselves.

A paying customer is a good customer, so it doesn't really matter where they come from.

Which also leads into price. If they've come from an environment of low prices and low quality, they may not be willing to purchase items from your site if you don't have a similar pricing structure, even if you offer superior quality.

What I'm most distressed about is that you've discovered another t-shirt company involving monkeys........NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (in my best James Earl Jones voice)

I have plenty more where that came from. If that distresses you I suggest you don't check out this site

Thanks to monkeys being the big cool thing on the internet before the switch to pirates and ninjas there are rather a lot of apparel sites with monkey themes (ThinkGeek lists Monkeys as their first topic in "navigate by interest" for example).

With Peter Jackson making the King Kong remake, maybe we'll see a resurgence in interest in our simian brethren

 

[DickTees.net]

I also worry about de-valuing my brand....I really don't want to be sandwiched between an iron-on "Bush is Satan!" and cafepress "Smell my Beaver!" shirt on the actual listing.

Don't assume that every offensive, rude or subversive shirt is a cheaply made piece of crap. We sell shedloads of our high quality screen printed offensive shirts printed on Hanes Heavyweights. Personally I prefer to wear a Threadless style shirt in my normal life. However, there are always meaningful opportunities to wear a shirt that mixes things up. Don't discount the importance of well made offensive merchandise.

 

[Twinge]

Surprisingly, people do actually go into the lower ranks... I have a shirt that gets about equal hits from categories and the main list, and since I dind't ask anyone to vote for it this month its only got 1 vote (in the high 300s/low 400s).

I think my biggest annoyance with the countdown is that votes/rankings have nothing to do with actual shirt popularily and everything to do with how many friends you want to bug to vote for you/how often you want to change your ip and vote for yourself. I can't think of anyway to really make it any better, though. I'm just tired of seeing 'these rims don't spin' at the top, I guess

 

[DickTees.net]

Surprisingly, people do actually go into the lower ranks... I have a shirt that gets about equal hits from categories and the main list, and since I dind't ask anyone to vote for it this month its only got 1 vote (in the high 300s/low 400s).

I think my biggest annoyance with the countdown is that votes/rankings have nothing to do with actual shirt popularily and everything to do with how many friends you want to bug to vote for you/how often you want to change your ip and vote for yourself. I can't think of anyway to really make it any better, though. I'm just tired of seeing 'these rims don't spin' at the top, I guess

Wurd. This topic came up a few months ago. I think the vote system is completely pointless, since everyone (including Rodney) agrees that "Joe Visitor" to the countdown.... DOES NOT VOTE!!! A more accurate measuring stick would be click throughs.

 

[Rodney]

Hi folks, thanks for the feedback on t-shirtcountdown.com, but that's not really the purpose of this topic (I don't think )

If anybody has any other feedback for t-shirtcountdown, feel free to send me an email or post it in the Feedback forum. However, I would like to clear up a few things:

I think the vote system is completely pointless, since everyone (including Rodney) agrees that "Joe Visitor" to the countdown.... DOES NOT VOTE!!!

I don' think I've ever said that "joe visitor" to the countdown does not vote. Actually, a lot of "joe visitors" do vote. They vote when the voting link is on one of their favorite t-shirt sites and when people come via search engines looking for t-shirts, they also vote (both by clicking "Buy this shirt" and by actually clicking on "vote for this t-shirt").

I know many of you purchase space and list on Rodney's site. How has that altered click-through/sales? Any noticable difference if you creep up the list? (Obviously, you have to be polite about tshirtcountdown.com, else Rodney will smack you.)

I'll be the first to say that t-shirtcountdown doesn't work for all types of t-shirts. I can say for a definite fact that it does work for many types. And by work I mean sending targeted traffic and more importantly, actual sales.

Not all t-shirts are suited for t-shirtcountdown, and not all t-shirts will get added sales by being listed. I try to make it easy. Go ahead and signup for free and if you promote your voting link and the site works for you, great, you've just got some free sales. If it doesn't, you've lost nothing. If you like what you see and want more, you can upgrade.

I should add: my main worry is all of the 5 or 6 main t-shirt listing sites seem to be flooded with very specific types of shirts: simple sentence humour, the shock value rude, relgious shirts, and political shirts.

I think this is mostly because these are the most popular types of t-shirt subjects at the moment (judging by sales and keyword searches).

Our work is far more the Threadless style of arty-surrealism, for which there doesn't seem to be much of an advertising base through sites (even though it's one of the best selling niches)

How would you categorize these types of t-shirts? What would you search for (as a shopper) to find your style of t-shirts? This could mean that I need to add another category to the site

Obviously the content will only improve as better sites start seeing it as a viable advertising outlet. I'd say in the short term it's worth considering because of the big-fish-small-pond scenario, and in the longer term as the quality raises everyone who survives will benefit. At the moment there's no reason for a customer to return to T-Shirt Countdown. After going once and finding very little worth your time, why would you go back? If it was full of vibrant submissions it would be worth returning to to check for updates.

I appreciate your honest feedback, solmu. It gives me some ideas for improving the site (although I would hardly call you our "typical" visitor )

I can say that we do have a high return visitor ratio and that we do send a good number of sales to the sites that are listed. Not just the top 50, but even to the number 1000 and below (I guess people are using the search more often than I thought). Obviously, as you get nearer to the top of the list, the more exposure you'll get and the better chance the sales will increase.

I actually get calls from customers (t-shirt buying customers) when they like (or don't like) a site on the list or when they are trying to buy a t-shirt from one of the companies there (or if they can't get a hold of a company they bought a t-shirt from)

I also worry about de-valuing my brand....I really don't want to be sandwiched between an iron-on "Bush is Satan!" and cafepress "Smell my Beaver!" shirt on the actual listing.

To me, that's what happened to those companies you pointed out. They have some excellent stuff....but I think are sullied in that company.

I think you may have it backwards If your shirts are of that great quality and superior design, then being listed next to designs of "lesser quality" would only make your designs stand out even more.

I wouldn't worry about being "sullied" by being next to a design you feel is inferior. If you're listed in Google or Yahoo (or eBay), you are already next to a wide variety of merchandise that is of varying quality. I don't think it is a point that your customers would care about too much. They just want to buy a cool t-shirt, they don't care how they found it.

But back to the topic of the original post, I would say that aside from the niche directories and lists like t-shirtcountdown, another method of online advertising would be to try Google Adwords, Blogads, or just find sites that you think your customers would visit and ask if they would like to be sponsored by you (you pay them for a text or banner link on their site).

Just like offline advertising...try to think of where your customers are, what they read, what they click on, what movies they see, and then get your product in front of their eyes.

I haven't seen your shirts (or maybe I have ) or I might be able to be more specific, but there are lots of opportunities to advertise creatively online.

 

[monkeylantern]

Don't assume that every offensive, rude or subversive shirt is a cheaply made piece of crap. We sell shedloads of our high quality screen printed offensive shirts printed on Hanes Heavyweights. Personally I prefer to wear a Threadless style shirt in my normal life. However, there are always meaningful opportunities to wear a shirt that mixes things up. Don't discount the importance of well made offensive merchandise.

I certainly wasn't attacking your store. Your advert-block in the menu was one of the main ones that caught my eye. They look very professional, and very well branded (I only just got your name's pun..... ). I think you'd do very well on t-shirtcountdown.com. You have the right audience, and the best product in your range.

But, as I'm sure you know, it's a very full niche. This can work with you or against you. Clearly, you're near the top of the pile of a big market. But people may have also been burnt, as there are many cowboys in your market area, and the dread of getting another iron-on transfer is just too great.

How would you categorize these types of t-shirts? What would you search for (as a shopper) to find your style of t-shirts? This could mean that I need to add another category to the site

To be honest, I'm not very sure. Although we're not in any way the same as Threadless, we are in simliar niches. How you you define a Threadless shirt? Generally they are nice pieces of art. An art category? I doubt people would look there for them. Maybe retro.......but again, not exactly descriptive, and already means something else. Everyone describes their shirts as "Cool", even if they're "Dance for Jesus!" shirts.

It's a problem. It's a very clear "style"....you know when you see one....but I'm not sure how you would name it.

I think this is mostly because these are the most popular types of t-shirt subjects at the moment (judging by sales and keyword searches).

To be honest, I think this is often due to the way people look for different t-shirts. Those looking for political/rude shirts are a very different beast to those looking for a Threadless, and I think they search differently too. The former would use sites like yours (because there are so many, and it no doubt does well in Google because of it), keyword searches for "rude", "offensive" etc.

The Threadless crew are buying more of a fashion item than a novelty item. I think they get known through word-of-mouth, people seeing the shirts on the street, "famous" connections, and a generally more underground sort of method. People would google "Threadless", not "cool shirt". They are a true brand.

I think you may have it backwards

If your shirts are of that great quality and superior design, then being listed next to designs of "lesser quality" would only make your designs stand out even more.

I'm certainly not saying they are the finest t-shirts on the net . But I do get the feeling that those great sites, such as the ones Solmu listed, the ones which are less slogan and more quality art and surreal, get dragged down on the countdown. But it's all so subjective. Those sites which I feel sell the better goods, from those Solmu cherry-picked, are also those which have the most professional image. I don't think they can be compared to Cafepress, and it just seems a little sad that they're buried. They also have the "niche" problem. None are easily definable but easy to recognise. How do you categorise them?

And it's all to do with positive feedback. The more slogan shirts listed there, the better shopping experience it become for slogan shirt, and the more are listed. And the grain is buried even more by the chaff.

The only solution I can think of sounds very elitist. Some sort of alternative list for the pro-end, "fashion" shirts, where entry is by invitation and selection. A place for shirts like those of Threadless, La Fraise etc.

I haven't seen your shirts (or maybe I have

) or I might be able to be more specific, but there are lots of opportunities to advertise creatively online.

Maybe you have.

We were once unbranded. Most sales were through a range of stores in London, and select store across the UK, Although we also had a test-run on eBay and sold very well.

We're sort or arty minimalist. Our biggest seller (which funded this computer, and being able to live in Australia, and being able to eat) was the Extistentialist Prawn. You'd know it if you saw it . . A few weeks and we'll be back. Don't expect internet gold, but they're not bad.

I have plenty more where that came from. If that distresses you I suggest you don't check out this site

Damn those internet kids! I was monkey focused when they were still using a ZX Spectrum!

 

[monkeylantern]

Self-censored for being grumpy and rude.

I'm sorry.

I'm out of coffee.

This is what happens.

Send me coffe.

Thanks.

 

[SpacemanFL]

I hope that my brand of humor will eventually find a market. I am selling a few now but know it will take time to grow. My stuff is text only and PG-rated at most. Most of my jokes are based on things that people can identify with and I think that is the key to great humor.

 

[monkeylantern]

I hope that my brand of humor will eventually find a market. I am selling a few now but know it will take time to grow. My stuff is text only and PG-rated at most. Most of my jokes are based on things that people can identify with and I think that is the key to great humor.

Humourous slogans are a huge marktet. Trying something like Rodney's site will probably be a good move for your niche.

 

[Twinge]

To be honest, I'm not very sure. Although we're not in any way the same as Threadless, we are in simliar niches. How you you define a Threadless shirt? Generally they are nice pieces of art. An art category? I doubt people would look there for them.

Artistic is something at least a few people look for, and it is already a category on the countdown. I've still got a long way to go before I show up very much in search engine results, but I have at at least 1 or 2 people find me searching for 'artistic t-shirts' =)

 

[monkeylantern]

Artistic is something at least a few people look for, and it is already a category on the countdown. I've still got a long way to go before I show up very much in search engine results, but I have at at least 1 or 2 people find me searching for 'artistic t-shirts' =)

True, but what sort or "artistic" are they actually looking for? Van Gogh prints?

 

[Rodney]

But is that worthy of the "Best t-shirt on the 'net"? Or does she have the most friend's spamming vote buttons?

How can that be said to be "Best on the 'net", when it's probably sold 5 copies to various creepy old women with cat fetishes, whereas *any* threadless shirt has sold 5 or 6 thousand times the amount, and a totally different level of quality?

Since you have no idea how many shirts a store has sold, it's sort of unfair for you to categorize that site as "less worthy". Your idea of "quality" could be horrible to someone else, so it's not that easy to just say "threadless shirts are better than cat shirts". It's relative.

It has the most votes, so it is on top. That makes it the best.

If a t-shirt you like has less votes, vote for it. Get your friends to vote for it. Make a change in the t-shirt landscape by voting your favorites to the top.

Your comments about that site and its potential shoppers are pretty rude. Let's try to keep the feedback constructive. Remember, no company bashing allowed (that means individual stores as well).

Let's keep this thread about "Internet Advertising" and not just about one particular site. If it's just a feedback thread about t-shirtcountdown, then it needs to be moved to the feedback forum (or taken off board).

 

[Solmu]

Hi folks, thanks for the feedback on t-shirtcountdown.com, but that's not really the purpose of this topic (I don't think )

I'd say it's part of the purpose, but yeah... only a small part. Still, this stuff is all very important (if potentially sensitive for all of us since it hits so close to home) and I think it's wending its way in and out of a few important issues.

While I often use specific sites for examples I'm generally talking about more general issues - most criticisms I level at T-shirt Countdown are about the industry as a whole for example.

That said, my lengthy first reply does seem to have hijacked the thread somewhat (sorry!). If anyone has any advertising experience, don't forget to chime in with it.

How you you define a Threadless shirt? Generally they are nice pieces of art. An art category? I doubt people would look there for them. Maybe retro.......but again, not exactly descriptive, and already means something else. Everyone describes their shirts as "Cool", even if they're "Dance for Jesus!" shirts.

It's a problem. It's a very clear "style"....you know when you see one....but I'm not sure how you would name it.

The majority of shirts on Threadless are Emo.

The only problem with that is that even when you tell loyal Threadless customers that, a lot of them are horrified. Most Emo kids don't realise they're Emo

More seriously, Emo as a movement has changed and grown a lot in the last five years. It has a bad reputation amongst some people (who are still thoroughly in your target market) and it's somewhat contentious what is and isn't Emo.

Personally I'm partial to using the word "Mod" to describe some things in my every day life - I'd like to see the term come back into vogue. I think I'm relatively alone in that. Likewise I often call things "Geeky" because they are and I consider that a positive thing - using that word in the wrong marketplace will be Retail Death though.

There is the option of calling it something like "Mod / Emo / Rockabilly", indicating how hard it is to pin down but covering some of the relevant ground. "Stylish & Fashion" is another one.

This is a very definite "can't please all of the people ... " scenario though.

The Threadless crew are buying more of a fashion item than a novelty item. I think they get known through word-of-mouth, people seeing the shirts on the street, "famous" connections, and a generally more underground sort of method.

Someone has to be at ground zero to get that word-of-mouth virus spreading though, which is why I go to indexes. Most of the time I'm the "word-of-mouth" guy amongst my friends, so I'm looking to make my life easier (i.e. I want to find more stuff with less effort).

The only solution I can think of sounds very elitist. Some sort of alternative list for the pro-end, "fashion" shirts, where entry is by invitation and selection. A place for shirts like those of Threadless, La Fraise etc.

I like that idea, but given the subjective nature of it I can see why a webmaster may balk at it.

We're sort or arty minimalist. Our biggest seller (which funded this computer, and being able to live in Australia, and being able to eat) was the Extistentialist Prawn. You'd know it if you saw it.

You know that definitely rings a bell. Perhaps I saw it on a reseller's site?

Artistic is something at least a few people look for, and it is already a category on the countdown. I've still got a long way to go before I show up very much in search engine results, but I have at at least 1 or 2 people find me searching for 'artistic t-shirts' =)

As monkeylantern said, when I think of the genre "Artistic T-Shirts" I think of either reproductions (Van Gogh's Starry Night, Munch's Scream, etc.) or originals, generally of an airbrushed style image (faeries on toadstools, wizards on dragons, kittens playing with yarn, etc.).

Whereas when I think of a t-shirt which is artistic, I think of modern contemporary art. Things that take advantage of the medium. Post-modern iconography, packed to the gills with self-referentiality or other strange and/or unexpected bits of humour.

Basically the noun Artistic T-shirts and the way I use the adjective artistic are two different things to me.

 

[monkeylantern]

Your comments about that site and its potential shoppers are pretty rude. Let's try to keep the feedback constructive. Remember, no company bashing allowed (that means individual stores as well).

I entirely agree. That was written while grumpy and low on coffee. I've edited out the message. Sorry. Don't hurt me.



Back to internet marketing.....

I know I've used Google Adword links to go to products....but I've never known anyone who actually uses them to sell.

Anyone any idea what the "bidding price" for a word like "t-shirts" would be? I imagine enormous.

 

[Solmu]

Let's keep this thread about "Internet Advertising" and not just about one particular site. If it's just a feedback thread about t-shirtcountdown, then it needs to be moved to the feedback forum (or taken off board).

I agree with you 100% about the need to keep comments from being rude, and I know I myself often skirt on the wrong side of that issue.

But personally I do have to wonder why you keep trying to get us to stop discussing T-Shirt Countdown. Why move it to the private feedback forum that we can't see the posts in? And why move it off board where this group of people discussing the issue... isn't?

T-Shirt Countdown is part of the T-shirt business, and it's relevant to us here. By discussing it specifically we can also learn more about the business in general.

I can understand you being sensitive to unfair criticism of it (and feel free to call me on that if I am doing that), but I don't think it's reasonable to get us to stop discussing it completely.

 

[monkeylantern]

But personally I do have to wonder why you keep trying to get us to stop discussing T-Shirt Countdown. Why move it to the private feedback forum that we can't see the posts in? And why move it off board where this group of people discussing the issue... isn't?

T-Shirt Countdown is part of the T-shirt business, and it's relevant to us here. By discussing it specifically we can also learn more about the business in general.

I can understand you being sensitive to unfair criticism of it (and feel free to call me on that if I am doing that), but I don't think it's reasonable to get us to stop discussing it completely.

I agree

Given its Wall Street Journal endorsement, and Wall Street's impressive Googability, it's central to the business (I only found it, and this site, through a link in the Wall Street Journal).

But I don't know how I'd handle it, if I was a webmaster of both "here" and "there". These forums are a little like the Union of T-Shirt Makers. t-shirtcountdown is part of "the Establishment". Tricky, and a thin line to judge.

You know that definitely rings a bell. Perhaps I saw it on a reseller's site?

Quite possible. I'm disappointed you didn't buy. It'll be back in the new range, so you have a second chance


EDIT: Given I'm mid-way through a Masters in English Lit, my grammar is spelling are shocking. It's all typos, I promise. Ahem.