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I've been testing this new pretreat also and so far so good. I've come to find that using more is not an issue like before. I don't have pricing info but using more also leads to higher consumable expenses. Lets hope the pricing is competitive or better than DuPont since using a lil extra is more security to the wash quality. I have a couple shirts with 8 washes and no issues yet...I'm going to keep washing until I find the failure point.
 

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I used this new PT on an order of 100 pieces for a group I am involved with. I figure this will really put it to the test! The shirts I used were an Athletic Heather from LAT and the prints look great. I did have a slight discolored PT box after curing on this color but I have used it on Royal Blue, Black and Turquoise colors with much less of a noticible box. As I understand it, a new light shirt PT option will be available soon too which should eliminate the box I had on the Athletic Heather! Hopefully I will be asked to test and evaluate it as well.
 

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WOW - This stuff rocks! I have washed a couple shirts now close to 20 times and they show very little deterioration to the print. I used an American Apparel 2001, LAT 6901 and Cotton Heritage 1044 which are all light weight ringspun shirts...which the lighter weight makes bonding the ink to the fibers more difficult. The cotton fibers themselves are beginning to breakdown due to the excessive washing, however the prints still look great!

Do they show some cracking? Yes.
Do I think its a PT issue? No.
Do I think that the cotton fibers breaking apart is causing the ink crack and not the PT? Yes.
Would I recommend this PT to other DTG users? In a heartbeat!

My confidence level in what I am providing to my customers has gone thru the roof! While there is still a learning curve to getting good PT results...the curve has been flattened out substantially!!
 

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UPDATE:

I have washed a Cotton Heritage CH1044, American Apparel 2001 and a LAT 6901 around 30 times now. They are all starting to fail to some degree which is to be expected. The LAT and AA look the best still showing very little cracking and wear, but oddly the CH shirt stuck together on wash 25...it was stuck together straight out of the washer. I believe this was due to not enough curing time for the ink as I really loaded up the ink to put this new PT to the test. With the other PT brand the sticking shirt issue would have presented itself on the first wash or two. I think it is a testament to the bonding strength of the new PT which kept the print from sticking previously and it has kept the other shirts in the test looking very impressive. IMHO this new PT is a HUGE leap forward in the DTG industry!!!
 

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Eric- this is great news........... as a newbie to dtg the pretreatment has been the biggest issue to get correct-way too many variables. If you think about it 30 washes is over half a year if you wore/washed a shirt once a week not bad IMHO.

In reading this post there are comments made that the application amount is not as critical as with other pretreatments. On your testing what settings were you using before like on the ch 1044 and what settings are you using with this new pretreatment to get the best results?

Thanks
Larry
Larry,

I was using around 8-10 grams of DuPont on the CH1044 which is where I started with this new PT. However I was told to try a little bit more so I incrementally stepped up to around 15 grams and had dozens of great wash tests before a failure. (The CH1044 is the shirt that showed deterioration first, AA2001 and LAT6901 are still holding strong) I am now using around 17-18 grams as it seems that using more does indeed help with washability. This goes against everything we knew using DuPont PT so it was hard to go against the grain but I must say more is better! I am still doing testing and I haven't dialed in my exact settings for every shirt yet but the formula for getting good prints and good wash-ability has become much much easier to figure out!
 

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I don't think you will see an increase in print quality on a crappy shirt. It's more about the longevity of the print not the quality. A bad image on a bad shirt is going to still look bad regardless. The image quality is dependent on the quality of the shirt, art and the machine its printed on.
 

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Have you all tried this on any shirts with polyester in them? Such as a tri blend? Just wondering if it helps with shirts that have poly in them.
Interesting how you mentioned this as I am going to do a test on poly this week. I'm confident it will work fine on a blend...I want to see how it handles 100% poly. I will post my findings as soon as I have data to provide.
 

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I am doing wash tests on a poly blend now...so far so good. I plan to test a 100% poly shirt too, in regards to Gildan...no I haven't tested any. So far the LAT 6901 and AA 2001 look the best after close to 40 washes. The more I use the various LAT styles the more I like the brand. LAT has actually become my first choice in garments. I have no interest in selling/printing on cheap carded cotton garments like the Gildan 2000.
 

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I've used the new PT on a Tultex shirt which is still ring spun but not a high end brand. The price point is the draw like that of Gildan, however the print quality was night and day compared to the better garments we have discussed in this thread. The new PT hasn't helped make a cheap garment print any better than with DuPont from what I can tell. I'm not sure why people are so hung up on sticking with Gildan. DTG printing is a premium service that should be used on a premium shirt. To upgrade from a G2000 to a LAT 6901 or similar is around $0.75 more. The difference in the print quality FAR out weighs the cost. Of course this is only my opinion.
 

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Yeah the high teens low twenties seem to have the best results. It's crazy how wet the shirt looks before drying it. With the DuPont it was usually barely damp because I only used around 10 grams. Have you also found this to be true?
 

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Jeff..I have been told that there is going to be an introductory price till the end of October but I have not been told what that actual price is. I have however been told that it will be very competitive to Dupont's pricing from AA.

I went to the Print13 show yesterday to check out the new Epson printer and I took a black and red shirt that had been pretreated with the new Image Armor and they printed really good considering the amount I put on was a shot in the dark since nobody had ever used it with Epson's ink set yet. Even better results would be seen with a little testing using their new ink. You can read more the new printer and see pics of the print here:

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/direct-garment-dtg-inkjet-printing/t229469-8.html#post1367129
 

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I expect the intro price to be close to AA, everyday price higher than AA but less than most other suppliers, guess we see on 13th.
I suggest trying some on the intro and see how it works. No returns due to wash could be priceless. Ok well worth it anyway.
I use this philosophy all the time. I am a firm believer that in 98% of the time you get what you pay for. I use a more expensive shirt than most to get better print results so whats a few penny's more per shirt if the wash results warrant it.
 

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Talked to the Image Armor folks, sounds like a huge success for the opening day of a great new product. This next year will represent a great leap forward for DTG printing. New pretreat, new printer from Epson and I suspect a few other awesome printers to be released by some of the big players in DTG. For now a near bullet proof pretreat is good for everyone, no matter what printer they use!
That's great news for the guys at Image Armor for sure!! $55 a gallon is great news for anyone who wants to give it a try.
 

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This is great to know. I was actually going to ask this question yesterday until I saw your post. I was assuming that more pretreat would lead to more "shiny box" issues. With dupont pretreat, I have managed to keep it pretty faint on certain brands like Keya, but I recently did a run of cotton heritage blacks and the customer actually complained that there was a box around the print. He was a very picky guy, so I was not surprised. I actually didn't think it was bad at all compared to some results I have seen before... I used very little pt and very low pressure (20psi) so there was no way to make it look any better unless I steamed it or something which I was not willing to do for free on all the shirts. Happy to hear image armor is helping us conquering the utmost of our pretreat issues!
This is true to some extent. If you get some PT on the collar or other seams it will/can create a shiny effect on those areas when you press it. I have noticed with the DuPont PT if you are doing a print over a zipper you could spray it and leave it to dry over night. Then in the morning if you pressed it before printing the shininess is much less. With IA if you don't press the shirt while still wet it isn't as effective so leaving it to dry over night isn't going to work as well. There is still quite a hill to climb in figuring out all the intricacies of this new (great) PT but the major hurdles and issues have been resolved!! (thank god)
 

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Eric/Randy

You should post some pics. ;). Some here at the show were surprised there were no pt marks visible on the black shirts or crystallization On the shirts - direct heat press full wet no hover.
I will be sure to post some pics in the next day or two...uhh am currently out of town. I will also post up a comparison pic of the new LIGHT formula IA versus none.
 

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I brush every shirt I do whether small or big runs. Yes if it's a better tee such American apparel, brushing not as important but I still do, this allows having to use less ink and softer feel,by not brushing ultimately you would need more underbase to make sure not no pop throughs. I only want happy clients so I spend the extra 5 seconds a shirt.
I do the same. Quality over quantity always imo.
 

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Gerald did you weigh the shirt with two passes of six turns? If so what was the results? Why did you do it this way? I'm putting down around 20 grams with a single pass and it is quite wet on my LAT shirts but Keya soak it up. Good print results on both though with same amount of pt.
 
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