[paata01]

HI everyone,
I saw this printer on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSbKnrCSf-4&feature=share&list=UU72VDCPpNe5r4BVXZExRvRA

I like how t-shirt loading process works here, it seems really nice. have you seen this Printer before, and its based on R3000, which means lower repair cost.
What you think?
Also I saw it on ebay, its up for sale

 

[joe83]

HI everyone,
I saw this printer on Youtube:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWqtNpJfc8c[/media]

I like how t-shirt loading process works here, it seems really nice. have you seen this Printer before, and its based on R3000, which means lower repair cost.
What you think?
Also I saw it on ebay, its up for sale

Hi,
I don't mean to be disrespectful, I am just wondering, I don't own a DTG printer yet so I might be missing something but what is special/unique about what is shown on the video? the shirt and platten were already loaded on the video.

I saw their posting on ebay, the printer and price looks nice. A google search on their phone shows a spectradtg site. Said website sells Easy-T printers among other items and no info on their new printers. Seems outdated tho.

 

[paata01]

Hi,
I don't mean to be disrespectful, I am just wondering, I don't own a DTG printer yet so I might be missing something but what is special/unique about what is shown on the video? the shirt and platten were already loaded on the video.

I saw their posting on ebay, the printer and price looks nice. A google search on their phone shows a spectradtg site. Said website sells Easy-T printers among other items and no info on their new printers. Seems outdated tho.

Price is affordable for me. and I think, as epson R3000 is not new, repair parts should be extremely cheap. Want to check this printer, I saw prototype on ISS show and it prints fast.

 

[skdave]

That you was very slow. There was nothing amazing about that printer. If the price was under $1000. that would be OK.

 

[102557]

That you was very slow. There was nothing amazing about that printer. If the price was under $1000. that would be OK.

under a thousand only buys you the r3000 print engine, that's a grossly misinforming statement to comment to the general public, and especially confusing coming from someone that sells $500 after market brother dtg platens! Im not sure if you are truly unaware of the costs or just posting emotionally with your own business interests in mind with that statement. I would suggest really knowing what your talking about before placing value on something or post honestly with fact cost comparisons of components required for dtg printers . I don't think you would be impressed with someone putting value #s to your platens and birdhouses? .. $800 only buys you Epson's highest quality a3 (R3000), which is built similar to the proseries Epson printers. The Epson r3000 (like the pro series printers) has a separate ink bay outside the print head carriage and oem dampers in the printhead carriage itself, a separate pump/s for getting ink to the carriage aswell. It also features larger capacity ink carts (fewer resets compared to the other a3 Epson print engines). In my opinion its by far Epson's best a3 print engine.. According to epsons price and specs I think they agree also.. Please do some research on costs of dtg mfg/ and Epson print engine cost don't forget the rip software, drive system, drive system electronics, platen/s,transport base material, and labor... even the manual load platen diy dtgs using wood bases("a lot of bird houses") and original Epson motor/ friction drive are 2-4 thousand on eBay! most don't include rip @ that price. you will not find a new autoload dtg currently on the market under 12,000- unless its a used refurb or used and needs refurb.. Im biased on the subject but I felt the need to point accurate cost facts of the Epson print engine and conversion costs involved. A $1000 dtg printer will get you no where in dtg land but a hard way to go, for god sakes rip software alone retail is $800-1200 or more depending brand. if there is a $1000 dtg that exists that I have missed somewhere all these years, please point it out?

Now lets discuss 2 "amazing" facts between your Brother brand and the Epson for dtg purposes.


1. Ink cost $700+ per liter brother vs. DuPont/firebird $150 liter
2. print head cost $1295.00 for each brother head per color channel, with a machine having 8 channels that = wait for it=10,360 to replace all the brother channels (8 heads ) one time! Epson, 8 channels all in one head 800.00 tops for the whole head with 8 channels.

I don't think we need to go into speed and print quality. I think those are some pretty "amazing" facts and I would have stopped @ point 1 ink cost maybe you should reevaluate your comment and research a bit more on dtg before making off the cuff comments that the general public reads here on the forum, with many having entry level knowledge and taking these posts for the gospel. No disrespect intended just wanted to inform you your cost evaluation is way out of kilter regarding dtg machines .. p.s better quality vids were uploaded.

spectra 3000 Digital Garment Printer "Coming out with guns blazing" - YouTube

 

[paata01]

After doing my research on the Epson 3000, I have scheduled demo with the NJ dealer next week. They will print white ink/cmyk on black t-shirts and pretreat with the Viper1 pretreater.

I'm a one shop and currently printing 500-1000 dtg shirts a month, so the quick-swap platen system should really help speed production which will be a big help for me. I'm currently using the Smart Garment Printer (Rainbow Printer) based off the 4880 which has box loading system that takes too much time loading and the 4880 has slower print times.

 

[shughey]

I have been looking at this unit since my fiasco with my first DTG machine last year. I hope you post your impressions of this.

My daughter took my T-shirt printing idea and ran with it. When my Kennedy DTG died she swapped to laser transfers which work fine but now business has sort of exploded for her and needs to go back to DTG...but she cant afford an 18K machine and now way I am letting her get a used machine now matter what a dealer says.

So I will hope you post your impressions. BTW..she does mostly CMYK so white inks for now are not needed but I see this one has it as an ability.
scott

 

[paata01]

BTW..she does mostly CMYK so white inks for now are not needed
scott

HI Scott,
I am selling online and 90% of total sales are dark shirts, CMYK + white, printing process is very similar. I know regular epson printers very well, so I can guess what dtg based on specific epson model can be.... lets say it epson 4800 is good dtg printer based on this model will be good too. Epson 3000 is very easy to understand model. I paid 600$ to EPSON certified technician just to come here and say he can't repair my Rainbow Printer. DTG market is very segmented and thinking in advance would be wise, thats why I am looking to get this model.
Also pressurized ink system is something thats photography companies love, and this printer has pressurized ink system...

 

[shughey]

I agree and also why I wont look at any older models using the 2200 engine. I had to stash heads when i had it...started feeling like a drug dealer stashing heads in places around the house. But..when the DTG died a painful death I certainly had no problem unloading those heads on ebay.

I like that this one has white ability for her future needs but right now 90% are child shirts CMYK...makes my life as the maintenance guy easier. Hard to sell a childrens or infants shirt using white as no one wants to pay that price....usually.

 

[paata01]

I agree and also why I wont look at any older models using the 2200 engine. I had to stash heads when i had it...started feeling like a drug dealer stashing heads in places around the house. But..when the DTG died a painful death I certainly had no problem unloading those heads on ebay.

I like that this one has white ability for her future needs but right now 90% are child shirts CMYK...makes my life as the maintenance guy easier. Hard to sell a childrens or infants shirt using white as no one wants to pay that price....usually.

Agree white ink system requires little bit more maintenance, but its worth it. you never know when you need one
I talked to dealer right now and he said he will be on Atlantic ISS show in March Booth 655, most to go there and check this machine, but I will have pleasure to check this before ISS show

 

[shughey]

Well I hope this turns out to be a good mid level unit. After all the fiascos that have come and gone with The Easy T and other mid level printers I am more than sketched out on the mid level DTG market.

I had such a horrid experience with "another" hack I swore off DTG for good. But..it really is the best solution for our needs. just do not have $18K for the Epson or I would go that route...or even the NeoFlex without even hesitating but again..just don't have the coin for them.
Thanks
scott

 

[treefox2118]

The mid level DTG market is going to find its place. This year for sure. I wouldn't count Easy T out either, they just released too early and without financial backing. Note: I own an Easy T (18 months), it's made me a ton of money. Just bought a Neoflex. I told Andy I would buy more printers when he's caught up. It's a fine printer. Just not an $18,000 one.

All these new companies have one big issue: the customer isn't the same as the $18,000 customer. There's a huge difference in expectation and demand for service. Odd that the low price customers can be so notorious about demands. No different than the guy buying a $35 retail tee and the one buying a $9 wholesale one.

No matter what you buy, if you ignore your DTG for a few days, you'll be on here screaming. My Easy T just prints money. I expect my Neoflex to do the same.

 

[shughey]

What I expect from any DTG seller...large or small..irregardless of price is this.

I want to receive exactly what you promised. If you promise this and promised that then it better arrive complete in the box. Not...half built and missing a RIP or missing cartridges...a manual etc. Not saying I expect things not stated in the sales pitch or the website.....rather JUST what you said you would deliver.

I expect the machine to arrive in working order. I accept that shipping can cause issues but.....I am a retired Field Engineer and I spent 30 years servicing capital equipment. I know when something broke in shipment and when it was not built correctly or..it was shipped half @ssed.

I expect you to ship it within the time frame you originally promised. If you state (before taking my money) it will ship within say..6 weeks...then 6 weeks it is. Not 4 months.....you could have stated that before the check cleared.

I also expect you to be able to answer emails and a phone within a reasonable time frame. Yes I know that a company of this size does not have a tech support department and as such does not have staff manning phones just waiting for me. I get it....again I did this as my career for 30 years.

I have worked for small operations before with just a couple guys and guess who was the one and only service tech...yep...me. Just me. I had a significantly larger customer base than any of these small DTG operations and as the lone man I always was able to contact any and all customers the same day.....oh maybe not within 30 minutes but always same day.

There is no reason for not contacting customers within 24 hours ever. Again...I did this for years I know the stress (wahh cry somewhere else)...and it is maddening at times but this is their business.

I do not expect to attain the same level of service from a small company that sells a sub 10K machine that I would get from say...Epson or say..Belquette. It can't be done...I get it..I know it..I lived it.

I expect to service my own machine at this price with SOME minimal help from the dealer. I started in DTG with a Tom Kennedy POS...believe me I know DTG and how to fix it better than half the people using one. I have torn down and rebuilt 6 or so 2200 engines to use as parts for his wooden trojan horses. So..I expect to do my own service..and prefer it. If I ddi not I would suck it up and pay 20k+.

Maybe most people buying a sub 10K machine don't get it...I get that. But I do and so I expect the box to contain a working and complete piece of equipment shipped in a timely manner and NOT a box of excuses. I accept the risk and limitations of smaller mid level companies and equipment but...that fact seems to have predicated many excuses from the sellers.

 

[treefox2118]

No disagreement here.

Just seems like many of these industry disrupters are running like Kickstarter than like a company always had to.

 

[shughey]

No disagreement here.

Just seems like many of these industry disrupters are running like Kickstarter than like a company always had to.

Agreed....

 

[102557]

The mid level DTG market is going to find its place. This year for sure. I wouldn't count Easy T out either, they just released too early and without financial backing. Note: I own an Easy T (18 months), it's made me a ton of money. Just bought a Neoflex. I told Andy I would buy more printers when he's caught up. It's a fine printer. Just not an $18,000 one.

All these new companies have one big issue: the customer isn't the same as the $18,000 customer. There's a huge difference in expectation and demand for service. Odd that the low price customers can be so notorious about demands. No different than the guy buying a $35 retail tee and the one buying a $9 wholesale one.

No matter what you buy, if you ignore your DTG for a few days, you'll be on here screaming. My Easy T just prints money. I expect my Neoflex to do the same.

I agree with a lot of your points. I will add dtg machines are very difficult to produce in "mid level" price range while providing a quality unit and service. depending on the quality of the build in this lower range there is very little margin when its all said and done. there is also a difference in the machines quality a lot of people group them by price only, you have to do some home work and know dtg a little bit to understand the differences. what print engine is used? what materials and components are the conversion made from and is it strong? what drive system is moving the transport system, original Epson motor or non oem motor and drive? Is the unit auto load or manual load? just a few differences can make a huge difference in production cost not visible to the eye with exception of the base material.. Its a very tough market, used equipment (model t refurbs ) and many small player competition.. customer service is also a tough deal with low margin.. you either pay for it upfront on upper end priced machines or when you need it on these lower price units..

Its hard not to be under funded as a small operation when making any of these machines! there's a lot to them, production will always be a problem for small operations and dtg, its even hard for the big boys to keep up although on a larger scale. the real obstacle is the knowledge these take to build and operate that's the commodity! truth is there are not a lot of people that know them well that can be just hired off the street, they will need to be trained on conversions and this could take a year/s depending the trainee. Then you always have the issue of the trainee going on there own. In effect the greatest knowledge and secrets are never shared in order to protect there investment except with the top brass and that leaves you with 1 or 2 guys knowing the full gist and the rest laborers with other aspect duties regarding the dtg operation . Dtgs are not a simple deal! there operation really depends on the builders understanding of the Epson machine in order to keep it operating error free! Its a big task if you have little knowledge of all the Epson behavior and how to overcome them when converted to dtg and all print engines have there own personality per se. I think the bigger problem with the low cost dtgs is not under funding which is always the case but more so a lack of understanding the machine and throwing something out to soon! that leaves little things that were missed like sensors and the likes or mechanical failures from lack of testing, all in the name of trying to generate income as fast as possible! I get it, I do- all they can do is be straight forward on production time, it is what it is there's high demand for low cost dtg and these are not plug and play that most people new to dtg expect.. a lot of exciting stuff going on in dtg..

 

[treefox2118]

If AllAmerican and RJet have had delays in their mid level product, I don't see how a startup can do it without $250,000 in funding minimum.

Some of the cheap Chinese imports work surprisingly well -- if you have spare parts and can rip cheap builds down. EKRip works fine with all of them.

That being said, if you buy a $4500 Chinese import, get yourself $1500 in spare OEM printers, and figure a few months minimum to shake out the bad build portions.

I also think the best route for a start up is to sell the machine self financed. Offer a mid grade machine for $13,000 -- $4000 down (covers ALL your hardware costs) and $250 a month for 3 years.

That includes warranty, support, and maybe even a small amount of monthly supplies. Heck, tell people they get unlimited support, but for every month they don't use support, they get 1/2 liter of ink color of their choice.

This way, you get that customer to cover your nut, and the long term payment covers support, profit, and supplementary costs.

 

[treefox2118]

I should also mention, on the self financing end, you're basically tying the warranty in to the payment. 30 day warranty with machine, and every payment made extends it 30 days. If they stop paying, at least you got your nut back up front. A reasonable 2880 build should cost under $2500. EKrip is $800. Shipping in the States is $350 with crate costs. So day 1 profit is $350. But if they continue payments, your profit goes up quickly. Even if you warranty a printhead, it's no big deal. Offer a replacement printhead for $600 but give them one free with core return. I've rehabbed 3 dead printheads from other people. Wasn't dead at all.

Not bad profit options -- but you have to have product in inventory to ship within a few days of the $4000 clearing.

 

[102557]

If AllAmerican and RJet have had delays in their mid level product, I don't see how a startup can do it without $250,000 in funding minimum.

Some of the cheap Chinese imports work surprisingly well -- if you have spare parts and can rip cheap builds down. EKRip works fine with all of them.

That being said, if you buy a $4500 Chinese import, get yourself $1500 in spare OEM printers, and figure a few months minimum to shake out the bad build portions.

I also think the best route for a start up is to sell the machine self financed. Offer a mid grade machine for $13,000 -- $4000 down (covers ALL your hardware costs) and $250 a month for 3 years.

That includes warranty, support, and maybe even a small amount of monthly supplies. Heck, tell people they get unlimited support, but for every month they don't use support, they get 1/2 liter of ink color of their choice.

This way, you get that customer to cover your nut, and the long term payment covers support, profit, and supplementary costs.

The problem with cheap imports is not the printer parts, its the quality of build and additional electronics, keep in mind very few are printer mechanics. also keep in mind many of these use cheap 6 channel print engines that are not really fit for dtg or outdated print engines with parts issues. If you cant get service or the additional electronics when needed, and the different time zones etc- your done and left holding the bag.. trust me that happens more often than not I get daily requests regarding people needing help with a cheap printer they bought, the failure rates are high...

you cant self finance these machines Imho, sounds good to printers and on paper but not practical for the manufacturer. The customers business ethics/success or failure will dictate if you get paid and not many are willing to put there lively hood in the hands of others (giving the printer at material and labor cost and getting the margins in payments, never going to happen with dtg to many variables.) then you have to chase your machine down if they don't pay and it will likely be resold or toasted and need a refurb.. to much b.s for to little..

P.S you will never get a quality made dtg for 2500.00, just think about that for second and add the printer cost, conversion, base material- you will get a problem child made from low grade cheap materials and manual load that's a fact.. just saying these guys have to make margin so everything is bottom of the barrel design and parts using drawer slides and the likes.. will it work? sure! but how long and how good is the print quality?! I can answer that because I have built a lot of them but I will leave it be additionally auto load machines using non oem Epson motors are in a total different league of dtgs, a lot more costs involved with non oem motor drive system units designed for heavy usage and longevity. everyone thinks I will buy cheap and replace the parts myself until it comes time to do it! again very few printer mechanics you can see this just by all the help posts here on the forum, then they end up putting out a couple grand to get the machine refurbed by a dealer..

If you try any self financing dtg machines let me know how that works out

 

[treefox2118]

I don't want to sell hardware, but I do think there is a big market for machines in the $9995-$11995 range.

That being said, I do believe a DTG machine (dual CMYK) can be built for relatively inexpensive numbers. The reality, though, is quantity will bring down cost. The first machines sold at retail will be losers for the seller.

I do think that the sub-$20,000 market is a bad one to sell to. If a startup had bad credit, they're going to get crushed. I see it constantly in my markets. If they have good credit, financing a $20-30k machine buy is nothing. Why finance $10k when $30k is only a few bucks a day more?

All my retail customers want a DTG. 100% of them. 99% of them can't afford a $500 shirt order. No way they can finance a machine of any amount. Most don't even have credit cards.

There are dreamers, and there are doers. It's far easier to sell $150 worth of shirts to the forever dreamers. The doers aren't buying shirts from me, they're making them by themselves, with quality equipment they can afford.

I bought a $6000 DTG because I didn't know if DTG was a profitable market. Because of that machine, I've bought $50,000 more equipment in my first year. But I'm a doer, not a dreamer.