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Software For Vectoring

3720 Views 16 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  webtrekker
Hi Guys, we do vinyl clothing printing and are constantly having issues with logos imported into cutting programs as eps or other types. The problem is they have lines missing or distorted etc. I understand its likely an issue with the file itself and have tried tracing using graphtec studio, again the trace isn't good enough. whats the best program costs aside, that with a clear logo uploaded from customer wether it be jpeg, png, pdf, eps or whatever I can take the logo, auto trace it and get a decent file to upload to the plotter software (currently use signcut)? or am I wong and it may not be a tracing issue? The files themselves seem decent quality but if were lucky enough to get one to actually open in signet they never seem to cut or preview properly? Im a bit stuck for ideas now! haha. Thanks for any suggestions. Regards, Mark
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All of them, CorelDraw, Illustrator, Inkscape, Vector Magic, ect., have similar results when doing an autotrace. People being people, some like the options in one over another, and fits their mindset better. But in the end, their autotrace functions are on the same level. None are push button easy.

Autotrace works ok for some things, but sharp crisp edges like text, it doesn't do so well. It's an algorithm trying to mimic a person with a pen and tracing paper. It can only go so far.

Getting malformed files from customers is frequent. If you get it as vector, even if it has issues, at least it is most of the time fixable by manipulating the path and closing paths. It's better than getting a 72 dpi printout, that was folded twelve times and washed in the washing machine after being left in someones pocket.

The one thing that works almost all the time and gives the best result is manually, (not auto), tracing. That is you import the image. Then to help, though not completely necessary, lock it so it does not move, add some transparency to see through it a bit, and grab the pen tool, (bezier,) and draw/trace it. Manually tracing even works for the washed up printout, (true story, though maybe only folded two or three times.)

At first, using the bezier pen tool is a four thumbs operation. But it is the kind of skill that practice improves quickly. Do it for two hours and you are off to the races. You really can improve fast with practice. It is tracing an image, not drawing from scratch, so much easier.

I prefer CorelDraw and Inkscape over Illustrator. Their node tools I find quicker. I too use SignCut. Whatever design program you have, just check youtube for tons of great tutorials on bezier pens. Also do a youtube search on say Inkscape Manual Trace or Illustrator Manual Trace.

If your dead set on autotrace, sometimes printing the image, tracing with regular tracing paper using a dark marker or pen, rescanning, and re-running autotrace helps. A lightbox in this case helps too.
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All of them, CorelDraw, Illustrator, Inkscape, Vector Magic, ect., have similar results when doing an autotrace. People being people, some like the options in one over another, and fits their mindset better. But in the end, their autotrace functions are on the same level. None are push button easy.

Autotrace works ok for some things, but sharp crisp edges like text, it doesn't do so well. It's an algorithm trying to mimic a person with a pen and tracing paper. It can only go so far.

Getting malformed files from customers is frequent. If you get it as vector, even if it has issues, at least it is most of the time fixable by manipulating the path and closing paths. It's better than getting a 72 dpi printout, that was folded twelve times and washed in the washing machine after being left in someones pocket.

The one thing that works almost all the time and gives the best result is manually, (not auto), tracing. That is you import the image. Then to help, though not completely necessary, lock it so it does not move, add some transparency to see through it a bit, and grab the pen tool, (bezier,) and draw/trace it. Manually tracing even works for the washed up printout, (true story, though maybe only folded two or three times.)

At first, using the bezier pen tool is a four thumbs operation. But it is the kind of skill that practice improves quickly. Do it for two hours and you are off to the races. You really can improve fast with practice. It is tracing an image, not drawing from scratch, so much easier.

I prefer CorelDraw and Inkscape over Illustrator. Their node tools I find quicker. I too use SignCut. Whatever design program you have, just check youtube for tons of great tutorials on bezier pens. Also do a youtube search on say Inkscape Manual Trace or Illustrator Manual Trace.

If your dead set on autotrace, sometimes printing the image, tracing with regular tracing paper using a dark marker or pen, rescanning, and re-running autotrace helps. A lightbox in this case helps too.
Great thanks that helps a lot, I think I'm getting the hang of it now in inkscape and will practice the manual way as you said to get better for any future issues we have. Thanks so much for the help.
Ok so I've tried converting to bitmap and trace bitmap as I've seen in other threads and put that into signet and for things like lots of little circles it simply isn't working either missing some, making them an odd shape or they look ok but they aren't smooth for the cutter. Surely big companies don't sit there tracing logos by hand to print, I cant do the garments that I've quoted for for the price quoted if I had to re trace everything. Any ideas anyone, I'm lost! haha.

I have high res ai, pdf and png and nothings working! :-/
i beg to differ on 'all' programs spit out the same autotrace and it is just personal preference

xara xtreme has the best autotrace for images
i did a full color photo as a test and in about a minute it spit out an incredible result,
it literally looked like it did not work and just spat out the raster again
that program prides itself on speed and it really is super fast at all its renders
no way illy could touch it, inkscape would have taken several hours and crashed multiple times (not sure about coreldraw, as i don't own it)

i also just did several color designs last night with the new silhouette studio using their new trace by color,
and it was pretty much perfect
this was a lower res gif (~28 kbs), so illy, inkscape, etc. would spit out either a jagged-edged monstrosity or a smoother rendition that no longer resembled the original
but the studio trace came out smooth and retained all the original detail

here's how i did it with one of the raster logos:
- separated the 3 colors into individual sections w/gimp
- filled them black
- opened them in silhouette studio
- selected trace area, trace by color, and bumped the tolerance to 100

you can download studio for free here, and use it without owning any cutter
it is possible that since silhouette is a graphtec product you can directly import this file type,
if not and you need to then convert to svg here
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i beg to differ on 'all' programs spit out the same autotrace and it is just personal preference
It has been awhile since I played in Xara. You may be right on the performance. But, I bet I could get similar results from Inskcape or others playing with the settings. It might take much longer, but there are many tweakable options.

I believe that Xara works for you best because it synchronizes with your mind set. You intuit what needs to be done easier there.

In Inkscape doing multiple passes often takes longer. Scans can be stacked or not stacked. You can scan on color or brightness or other options. Inkscape is essentially the command line program potrace. Often without a great deal of changing the settings, it won't give you what your going for, but can with attention to the settings.

In CorelDraw, it is easier, I find, to limit or even merge colors, and change smoothing.

This is about cutting vinyl. Getting a photo to trace and look good is one thing. Getting an outline for the cutter is another. I still say they all are in the same ball park as far as preparing for cutting. Preparing for a billboard to be printed might be different, but thats another can of worms. Photo-realistic vector conversion might be where one program can do much better than another, but I am mainly thinking in terms of getting a cutline.
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Ok so I've tried converting to bitmap and trace bitmap as I've seen in other threads and put that into signet and for things like lots of little circles it simply isn't working either missing some, making them an odd shape or they look ok but they aren't smooth for the cutter. Surely big companies don't sit there tracing logos by hand to print, I cant do the garments that I've quoted for for the price quoted if I had to re trace everything. Any ideas anyone, I'm lost! haha.

I have high res ai, pdf and png and nothings working! :-/
Maybe view some of these: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=inkscape+autotrace

Large companies start with good graphics. They don't get small customers that have made artwork on their own. They get artwork from an art department, with staff that knows what is needed.

If on the occasion they don't, they have artists that will re-trace what is needed and quickly.

Us other guys, get the crumbs. So yeah, we pretty much have to be able to fix artwork, or pass on the job.

I will admit Inkscape's autotrace is arcane and takes a great deal of acclimation. One thing to consider is higher resolution doesn't always mean better autotrace. Sometimes it is too much information and kills performance.

Maybe you could try another. Vector Magic has both a download and a Web Service. Or as into the T suggested, Xara or the Silhouette one.

Bottom line though, some art can never ever be auto-traced acceptably and has to be manually traced.

Could you share an image you are trying to trace? It might enlighten.
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Hi Guys, we do vinyl clothing printing and are constantly having issues with logos imported into cutting programs as eps or other types. The problem is they have lines missing or distorted etc. I understand its likely an issue with the file itself and have tried tracing using graphtec studio, again the trace isn't good enough. whats the best program costs aside, that with a clear logo uploaded from customer wether it be jpeg, png, pdf, eps or whatever I can take the logo, auto trace it and get a decent file to upload to the plotter software (currently use signcut)? or am I wong and it may not be a tracing issue? The files themselves seem decent quality but if were lucky enough to get one to actually open in signet they never seem to cut or preview properly? Im a bit stuck for ideas now! haha. Thanks for any suggestions. Regards, Mark
I use a program called Super Vectorizer (it's a mac program but I think they have a windows version).
Hi Guys, So update:

Silhouette studio is by far tracing much better but, when I thin convert the file to msg or eps and open in signet it still randomly misses bits but I'm a lot closer and can modify buts a lot better in there. I think I'm 2 logos down that should work, I will try cutting them soon!

Ball ache though - The logo with lots of circles on even in silhouette studio though most of it really good the circles are distorted, I cant manually input that many circles to correct it, is there a setting somewhere I can change to make it easier?

I cant seem to upload the image to show you but basically this of a circle made up of lots of little circles! haha.

Thanks,

Mark
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here is one i just did, not bad (not perfect, but better than i was expecting, circles are quite difficult to get decent traces)
if you can, it is better to re-draw in studio
barring that, try to break it down into smaller chunks then recompose after tracing each section
even if that means drawing one or two of the larger circles within the studio program

image upload:
hit 'Go Advanced' under the 'Quick Reply' box (it is under the last post of the thread), then scroll down to 'Manage Attachments',
click 'Browse' and then 'Upload', then click 'Close Window' in the upper right
boom, your files are attached to your post

Attachments

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Vector magic is what i use, I have the desktop version, amazing software .Send me a pm for more info .
Great thanks for all the help guys. We downloaded Ai and for some reason when saving the original Ai file as eps, which we had already changed to eps elsewhere in another program it all works fine! Im presuming doing it elsewhere somehow degraded the file. Either way it works so I'm happy! haha. Thanks for letting me know how to attach a photo for future and great I will have a look at this vector magic.

Anyone on here use a roland BN-20 digital print? We are contemplating getting one and wondering if files are easier to handle on the eco print systems as there would be less cut lines?Or am I wrong again!? haha.
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vector magic used to let you have a few trial designs done for free
as i recall it was pretty decent results
Hi Guys, we do vinyl clothing printing and are constantly having issues with logos imported into cutting programs as eps or other types. The problem is they have lines missing or distorted etc. I understand its likely an issue with the file itself and have tried tracing using graphtec studio, again the trace isn't good enough. whats the best program costs aside, that with a clear logo uploaded from customer wether it be jpeg, png, pdf, eps or whatever I can take the logo, auto trace it and get a decent file to upload to the plotter software (currently use signcut)? or am I wong and it may not be a tracing issue? The files themselves seem decent quality but if were lucky enough to get one to actually open in signet they never seem to cut or preview properly? Im a bit stuck for ideas now! haha. Thanks for any suggestions. Regards, Mark
Hi,
I am a bit confused after reading this and your subsequent comments, but I will try to answer about what I understood from it.

Vector work either for print or vinyl, its better you work with a dedicated vector program such as Adobe Illustrator, Corel Draw or Inkscape. Furthermore I know Graphtec and Silhouette have plugins that will enable you to send cutting jobs directly from AI or CD. This will not only improve your work quality but will save you a lot of time as well.

If you are doing a lot of jobs with vinyl it would be a good idea to invest your time and money in learning vector programs.

Now coming to vectorizing of a bitmap image, every vector program have options of tracing but they are limited and a lot of times you have to manually trace them, which is both time consuming and requires a certain level of skills with the vector program. You can use dedicated programs such as Vector Magic and Vectoraster to help you. Vector Magic is the best program in my opinion as it will give you maximum amount of control possible, and you can get decent results from it. But you will still have to import it in vector program and clean the image up. Vector Magic is pricey but it is well worth the investment, plus you can try an online version of the desktop app. Its free but with limitations.

One advise I can give you is to know your limits, and then slowly and gradually work towards surpassing them. At times you might feel to take work but you must take into account if you will require outside help which will cost you. Once an invoice is sent to customer, changing it or asking for more will not reflect good on you. It is always better to be upfront then to realise once you have taken a job that it will cost you more then what you are actually charging.
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Great thanks for all the help guys. We downloaded Ai and for some reason when saving the original Ai file as eps, which we had already changed to eps elsewhere in another program it all works fine! Im presuming doing it elsewhere somehow degraded the file. Either way it works so I'm happy! haha. Thanks for letting me know how to attach a photo for future and great I will have a look at this vector magic.

Anyone on here use a roland BN-20 digital print? We are contemplating getting one and wondering if files are easier to handle on the eco print systems as there would be less cut lines?Or am I wrong again!? haha.
A printer + cutter, a match made in heaven hence BN20. Unfortunately, that is not what the reality is. Ecosolvent ink on a printable vinyl produces pretty good results if youre using high end printers+Cutters from both Mimaki and Roland.

In my opinion BN20 is not the best investment as it lacks the heater, which helps with ink penetration on vinyl. From what I know, a print with BN-20 should not put on shirt for at least 24 hours to allow maximum penetration. Models with heaters dont have this issue. Another thing is the printing speed, which is painfully slow for BN-20, all these things must be taken into account.

Regardless, I still prefer to have a dedicated CadCut machine in my workshop instead of having one print+cut machine, but that is my personal choice.
Another thought...outsource the vectorizing! Depending on how often you get lousy art, it might make sense, economically, just to pay another company to do it for you. Some companies can vectorize art for $8-$24 depending on how complex the art is. Compared to my labor cost it's well worth it. Letting someone else handle the hassle frees up your time to do more productive things. The company I use normally charges around $15, and they have it done within 24 hours.
I simply block out the image into bkack and white solid areas in Photoshop then paste into VectorMagic, click the button, and save the result.

Rarely do I find the need to edit any nodes in the resulting vector.

I never try to autotrace an image in other software, it's a PITA! If you do though, it's much better to 'posterize' the image in some way before vectorising.
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