[ruxvellprints]

what are the disadvantages and advantages between rotary press and table top setup.

 

[Fauxfax]

You've got all your screens and that gives you all your colours. Then you have your platen which holds your t shirt. If you have four screens and one platen then you can do a four colour print but only work on one T shirt at a time. If e.g. you have a six colour / six platen machine you can print the first colour on six seperate T shirts as you rotate them and then print the second colour and so on. While you are printing, the shirts can go under a flash machine as they go around and when all the colours are done another person can be taking them off and reloading them.

 

[BroJames]

Depending on the number of platens you plan to use, a rotary presses can require a smaller space (but not always). A rotary press does seem more "high tech" but a long or line table setup can give rotaries a run for their money. Contrary to what other people may think, you can use flash cure on line or long table setups.

Some things that long or line table setups have going for them is
1) Their relative cheap cost of construction
2) A multiple platen setup enables a printer to use regular screen printing inks which would clog screens on a rotary
3) Depending on the actual setup, a line or long table setups can be much more flexible.
4) You can print 101 colors and more with a line or long table setup. Unlimited colors to be more specific.
5) Easier to register screens without the need for expensive micro registration systems.
6) Unless your screens are warped or otherwise uneven, you do not have problems with levelling or tilting your screens. Very easy to set your off contact height.

A weak point is that their registration can off-register in the hands of a careless printer. But you won't see that problem here
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQytu64dlL0&feature=related[/media]An 18 platen setup (5 colors wet on wet start to finish)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW0YW4_l7dE&feature=related[/media]The actual printing for 17 shirts, 5 colors, is about 3min and 10 seconds.

With a long table setup, you are the rotary and need to move around a little bit more.

 

[VinylHanger]

I've been lurking for a while gathering up info and I really like the long table setup. I don't have the dough or room for a quality rotary so I need to build my own. My question is why is this style not common in the States? Or is it? Seems like a great simple solution. It most definitely can make excellent prints, and like you said no micros needed.

 

[tpitman]

I've seen videos of the table presses, and using a flash is the biggest impediment I can see for doing dark shirts. I know they sell propane infrared heaters for the purpose, but I would think that if I were constructing a table press, a standard flash head either suspended overhead that could be drawn along the line of shirt boards for flashing, or mounted to a track on rollers suspending the flash a few inches off the shirt board, would be easier than dragging and positioning a flash on a stand of the kind we use with carousel presses.

 

[VinylHanger]

That's what I've seen. A big roller unit that they set over each platten to flash the colors. I figure on only having 2 plattens at the most, I mainly want a simple way to do multi color. So if I need to have a slightly inefficient flash setup it won't really be a big deal. At least in the beginning. Though suspending it above the work station may be the easiest, or maybe have it swing out and pivot like a desk lamp. So many projects, if I can only get my butt in gear. I've been trying to get motivated to build a lightproof drying cabinet for the last week and a half.

I really appreciate your responses, I know so many posts are redundant over and over, so the patience I see on this board for new posters is a real rarity on the net these days.

 

[BroJames]

I've been lurking for a while gathering up info and I really like the long table setup. I don't have the dough or room for a quality rotary so I need to build my own. My question is why is this style not common in the States? Or is it? Seems like a great simple solution. It most definitely can make excellent prints, and like you said no micros needed.

I think this setup is not popular in the US because it takes up more precious space and often, requires more expensive manpower, and people are more accustomed to doing things more systematically. However, it does not have to be a 50-100 platen setup. One person can do the job on line tables even with a 6-16 platen setup.

With 10 platens arranged in a circular manner(above), the printer can stand in the middle. And with the dryer well positioned, movement should be minimal. The socket for the more common flash with stand can be place at the corner between the horizontal and vertical platens (green) to that the flash cure cable can be positioned for minimal obstruction.

These should be the flash cure referred above.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyH_rOoxHnQ&feature=related[/media][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FlVbjM6eds[/media]I think if there's a will there's a way. There may be some compromises and adjustment in the way we print but a penny saved is a penny earned and in this case, its not just pennies but a few grand.

 

[VinylHanger]

Very cool. Thanks for the info. Whatever works is the important thing.

 

[tpitman]

That second video is more like it with the flash, something a guy working alone could just pull along with him flashing the last shirt printed as he does the next one. Just goes to show you there's nothing new under the sun. I could see setting up a six platen press like that along one side of my garage, taking up a hell of a lot less space than my 8-color carousel. Set the screens on a folding table behind me and pull each color as I needed it.
What kind of a flash is that he's using . . . obviously not an infrared like we use here in the States.
Thanks for sharing those videos.

 

[BroJames]

I would think that those are infrared. Here is a "semi-automatic" flash cure .

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-CNzUOc_gk&feature=related[/media]

 

[Unkle Samo]

Table top setup Questions!!!

Wow, those line table setups look tempting but, enlighten me on how they are micro registered? I don't see the printer aligning the screen frame to any particular marks on the table nor do i see any kind of slot that the screen frame sits in...
How is offset achieved? Is this viable for multicolored waterbased jobs without retarder? I would love to have something like this along the side of my warehouse because, these videos make it look so easy! Anyone know of US distributers for a line table press and/or prices?

 

[BroJames]

Wow, those line table setups look tempting but, enlighten me on how they are micro registered? I don't see the printer aligning the screen frame to any particular marks on the table nor do i see any kind of slot that the screen frame sits in...
How is offset achieved? Is this viable for multicolored waterbased jobs without retarder? I would love to have something like this along the side of my warehouse because, these videos make it look so easy! Anyone know of US distributers for a line table press and/or prices?

The black outline on the left is the guide rail. Usually, its an angular bar. The long gray thing in the middle of the guide rail is the registration stop or the stopper. Usually it is adjustable but in the illustration its just a large fixed nail. The bluish "T" guide on the green frame is rested against the stopper to hold the vertical alignment. Images are pre-registered to make this static "T" guide work. Some, I for one, use an adjustable one vertical guide. Some aluminum frames have a canal to accept "T" guides made specifically for aluminum frames.

The small yellow circle on the green frame are eyescrews which you can adjust in or out for the horizontal registration. For aluminum frames, I use a bolt-type registration where the nut is riveted to the aluminum frame. Other aluminum frames are welded such that the 2 ends of the left and right vertical bar of the frame are left open. Wood is inserted in these 2 open ends. Eyescrews are then inserted into each of the the wood as horizontal registration guides.

Very basic and very simple. Slight warpage on wood frames won't affect registration because the wood frame is laid above the platen with some freeplay as allowance for minor warpage. In contrast, a frame is forced fitted into the print head of a rotary press making tilt and level adjustments necessary. In some cases, off contact adjustment is affected.

Here is a video of the registration principle, and the flashcure, in action.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNmB7RGQ60Y&feature=related[/media]This one gives a closer look at the registration action
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4padB7JVmzQ&feature=related[/media]But the registration guide in the video is a separate unit and clamped to the frame. The advantages is that the metal parts can be removed before the screen is washed. The disadvantage is a heavier head.


How is offset achieved?
If you are reffering to the off contact, just put anything about 1/16-1/8 either on the platen or below the frame. No need for level or tilt adjustments.

Is this viable for multicolored waterbased jobs without retarder?
If by retarder you mean additive to delay screen clogging, you need multiple platen setups and if the shirts are more than the platens then you need to either print in batches or have 2 or more printers printing simultaneosuly. But yes, it is viable more than rotaries.

I would love to have something like this along the side of my warehouse because, these videos make it look so easy! Anyone know of US distributers for a line table press and/or prices?
I won't expect someone selling these tables in the US. Here, we make it ourself. It is really very simple. Here, a 10-12 platen table is made for about $100-130. Likely to cost more in the US due to higher labor cost or about 5 20x24" aluminum frames without mesh.

 

[tpitman]

Yeah, that first video showing the flash suspended on the arm that rides on the rail in back is what I'm thinking. As for infrared flashes, these look more like infrared heat lamps as opposed to the flash units that we usually use here. Ours don't emit any light . . . just the heat.
Thanks again for the video links. I would think that someone could manufacture these pretty cheaply in single-platen sets that could be fastened together into however many one wanted to purchase, and would have a much better product that the cheap entry-level crappy rotary presses we see here. Maybe I oughta bust out that MIG welder sitting under my bench and get off my a$$.

 

[tpitman]

With a long table setup, you are the rotary and need to move around a little bit more.

Keep a cold beer at the last platen, and it'll make being the rotary a pleasant proposition.

 

[tdunham]

I have a couple of questions for those of you with in-line experience. I have been in this industry a good while now and have traveled to many countries with it.

When stacking high density inks, how do you change the off contact for the second density screen?

Since you are not using micros, how much time is spent making sure the screens are shot precisely?

Is there a 'sweet spot' in terms of the number of plantens to use where the extra labor movements are off-set by the production capability?

 

[BroJames]

Keep a cold beer at the last platen, and it'll make being the rotary a pleasant proposition.

That would be a nice motivation. But not too much so our head don't rotate as well

When stacking high density inks, how do you change the off contact for the second density screen?
You can stick your off contact insert on the frame. It could be almost any object with the proper thickness. Cutted illustration boards, rulers, popsicle sticks, etc

Since you are not using micros, how much time is spent making sure the screens are shot precisely?
If you mean registration, I believe the first video shows how the 3 point registration system works.

Is there a 'sweet spot' in terms of the number of plantens to use where the extra labor movements are off-set by the production capability?
I am not sure if anybody has really thought about that. Most would set up as many platens as the space or the funds permit. I would say the long table system excels if you have more than 1 printer. Multiple printers can print simultaneously. As to how many will be the optimum, I guess that will depend on individual printing style.

This video shows a flash unit similar to the flashcure with stand commonly used in rotary presses.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4-qScHR52A&feature=related[/media]
It can really be a one man job as the frame, with off contacts, can be left on the platen while the flash is moved to the next platen, etc.

 

[tpitman]

For a one-man shop, I would think the number of platens would be dictated by how long of a cooling-off period one would like for the first shirt after flashing before printing the next color. I can't see more than 5 or 6.
I have to say, if I didn't have a nice carousel press, I'd be knocking out one of these, at least in the interim. Seems it would've been better than the two presses I had before buying the current one.

 

[chard]

what are the disadvantages and advantages between rotary press and table top setup.

the information on this thread is nice but i think you are missing the point of the thread starter..i think the table top setup he's referring is not the same as the line table setup?

 

[tpitman]

Could be, but there are table top rotary presses, too. Otherwise, you're talking about a single station table top press. The line table presses shown are all multiple station, but it doesn't mean you need 10 or 20 stations. I can see where a 4 or 5 station line table setup against a wall would leave a lot of open floor space in a one or two car garage, as opposed to a floor-model rotary press, which will eat up a significant portion of it. That's the dilemma I'm facing as I transition out of a 1200 sq. ft. shop to a 360 sq. ft. garage. I did it before, but it's tight, and it generally means the motorcycle and grill go back outside under tarps.

 

[chard]

the moment ive read the question, what got into my mind is the manual rotary presses and the table top presses..maybe because im not used to in international thread talking about line table setup..^_^

and the thread starter seems to be missing so we cant know for sure what info he was asking..