reducing plastisols

2192 Views 13 Replies 8 Participants Last post by BroJames, Sep 9, 2010

audioloon

Discussion Starter · Sep 8, 2010

started at new place of employment using plastisols
ima waterbaby prviously ..

my predecessor didnt think money was an issue as it wasnt his, and just opened the the new ink like a kid with the penutbutter

ther are $100's worth of inks that are just a little to think to print but are not completely gone , what do you guys recomend as an allround reducer to reclaim these inks and dollars..
i say allround as there are various brands

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CNClark

· #2 · Sep 8, 2010

Wilflex Softhand Clear and a paddle drill bit should whip the ink into printing shape. You maybe very surprised at what a paddle drill bit can do on its own without adding any extender or reducer.

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adivito

· #3 · Sep 8, 2010

paddle drill seconded. but get one with only a couple fins, because the cleanup is a pain when there is a bunch of them.

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ShirlandDesign

· #4 · Sep 8, 2010

CNClark said:
Wilflex Softhand Clear and a paddle drill bit should whip the ink into printing shape. You maybe very surprised at what a paddle drill bit can do on its own without adding any extender or reducer.

I'm using Union Mixo, by their direction stirring vigorously
reduces the body tension and yeah, the ink loosens up a lot just by stirring it. But does reducer make the ink go farther as a cost effective measure, or is reducer close enough in price to offset any savings?

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CNClark

· #5 · Sep 8, 2010

Alot of people bring up ink costs, and if you work it out to a per print piece, it comes to pennies per imprint. When it comes to ink, the most important thing should be "Is it doing what I need it to do", ex. is the viscosity to your liking? does it cover well?.

Some shops will add a reducer or extender to lower costs, as a gallon of Soft Hand is around $35.00 last time I looked, and ink ranges from $50-$100+. But again, there is not a whole lot to gain by mixing in additives strictly to lower costs.

I extend my white for underbasing purposes, and I extend nearly every color that is being printed on a sim process job, but that is because I am looking for a certain property to the ink that allows it to print better.

My advise would be to use additives to achieve the result the were intended for and not as a money-saving measure...

There are plenty of ways to cut costs, changing the properties of your ink isn't one.

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Dwaynec

· #6 · Sep 8, 2010

use curable reducer to to thin plastsol ink . this will cure at same tempature as plastsol ink

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thutch15

· #7 · Sep 8, 2010

adivito said:
paddle drill seconded. but get one with only a couple fins, because the cleanup is a pain when there is a bunch of them.

I agree... they are a pain to clean. I am thinking about buying one for each color or making a bucket with a strong ink remover ink to mix the ink off.

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ZenPrinter

· #8 · Sep 8, 2010

Seems to me if the inks are MIXO I wouldn't touch them or they will be ruined. ie Won't do what they are supposed to do. I have inks I haven't touched for years. They come right back with a good mix. Slow but sure then fast and furious. Again they come right back. If they don't than the plastisol oils were somehow leeched out. Then and only then reducer should be used little tiny bits at a time.

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CNClark

· #9 · Sep 8, 2010

You should reduce after mixing the pantone color. Don't reduce or extend the stock mixo colors if you plan on using them to pantone match later.

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ShirlandDesign

· #10 · Sep 8, 2010

A little off topic, but any advice about reducing for halftones? I've been looking into Mark Coudrays teachings on halftone proficiency and what it appears to suggest is just getting ultra critical in all fazes of screen printing, e.g. light sources, squeegee sharpness and durometer, mesh tension, and more to the topic of this thread, ink consistency. Any tips from the big dogs would be most appreciated.

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CNClark

· #11 · Sep 8, 2010

You don't need to reduce for halftones per say. Halftones are nothing more than a really small open area in the stencil. Extending is more about mesh counts and % of open area in the mesh than whether or not you are using halftones.

When reducing or extending comes into play is when a stock ink isn't going to get the job done. All extending the ink does is give it a little softer hand, less pigment, and makes it a little easier to print. When printing sim process you extend (sometimes as much as 50%), to achieve not only excellent on press color mixing properties but also to allow the ink to flow through the stencil without a ton of pressure, because you are using 300+ mesh screens. We have moved recently to the thin-thread, long-elongation type of mesh to allow more ink to get to the shirts, and the results have been phenomenal, but you have to work at a lower tension, so there are trade-offs.

I'm glad to see you reading that kind of literature....you're not going to be just another one of the ink slap'er on'ers that plague this industry. You're on the right track to do doing good things..I wish more people took that approach. Ultra-critical isn't for everyone, but it sure makes your product alot better...you won't find too many microscopes in screen printing shops, but you can bet the ones who do have one are really good at what they do.

Here is some other good reading..get the updated version for 2001.

Screen/Stencil Making Technical Fundamentals Books by Andre M. Peyskens, ASPT

also check out... Solutions Journal Magazine too..Bill Hood, as pompous as he can be, knows more about screen printing than nearly anyone in this business...and he makes some durn fine white ink too!

See less See more

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ShirlandDesign

· #12 · Sep 9, 2010

What a gracious reply. I very much appreciate the tips and the links, in for a penny in for a pound.

So then Mark was serious about the microscope. lol

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ZenPrinter

· #13 · Sep 9, 2010

CNClark said:
You don't need to reduce for halftones per say. Halftones are nothing more than a really small open area in the stencil. Extending is more about mesh counts and % of open area in the mesh than whether or not you are using halftones.

When reducing or extending comes into play is when a stock ink isn't going to get the job done. All extending the ink does is give it a little softer hand, less pigment, and makes it a little easier to print. When printing sim process you extend (sometimes as much as 50%), to achieve not only excellent on press color mixing properties but also to allow the ink to flow through the stencil without a ton of pressure, because you are using 300+ mesh screens. We have moved recently to the thin-thread, long-elongation type of mesh to allow more ink to get to the shirts, and the results have been phenomenal, but you have to work at a lower tension, so there are trade-offs.

I'm glad to see you reading that kind of literature....you're not going to be just another one of the ink slap'er on'ers that plague this industry. You're on the right track to do doing good things..I wish more people took that approach. Ultra-critical isn't for everyone, but it sure makes your product alot better...you won't find too many microscopes in screen printing shops, but you can bet the ones who do have one are really good at what they do.

Here is some other good reading..get the updated version for 2001.

Screen/Stencil Making Technical Fundamentals Books by Andre M. Peyskens, ASPT

also check out... Solutions Journal Magazine too..Bill Hood, as pompous as he can be, knows more about screen printing than nearly anyone in this business...and he makes some durn fine white ink too!

All of the above is true. I would just like to add that Wilflex makes a "Halftone" Base. It extends the ink but also keeps the body of the ink firm to reduce the effects of dot gain.

And yeah baby! That new mesh is kick a**. I use almost 230's on everything now. With a proper white I can even print polyester no problem. It is like night and day.

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BroJames

· #14 · Sep 9, 2010

CNClark said:
Wilflex Softhand Clear and a paddle drill bit should whip the ink into printing shape. You maybe very surprised at what a paddle drill bit can do on its own without adding any extender or reducer.

I've used the wilflex softhand, nice, but is the paddle bit the metal one? Can you post a picture?

Are you all referring to the smartmesh?

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