[JCS2013]

We're looking at buying our first Auto. We're a successful manual shop that started in a garage and now have a 2500sqft lease and we're doing well. I've been thinking about brand loyalty and what I want in our shop now that we need an auto and some better equipment. I think it's really important to game plan who you want to deal with when it comes to tech support, overall quality etc...

This is going to sound crazy, but I keep coming back to Ryonet for the Sroque. The only problem is I don't know if its a good idea to support them. This will sound rediculous, but even though Ryonet has great customer care they really started out as a business of selling products to new startups. I guess all the vendors are to a point, but Ryonet goes out of their way to get those new garage printers and help them grow. I know this because that's exactly how we got started...

Call me selfish, but I don't know if I want to support a company that is actively trying to make my new competition grow. The last thing I need is more competitors in my area. The profit they make from me goes to them so they can try to do just that.

See, all the suppliers are doing the same thing, but not like Ryonet is for the average Joe on the street looking for a new career. I really think the SRoque would be a good fit for us, customer care would be great, but I just don't want to be supporting a company that may very well help a competitor grow and take me out....

Bleh, maybe I should put the coffee down and sleep, been working 100+ hour weeks here at the shop....

 

[JCS2013]

We're looking at buying our first Auto. We're a successful manual shop that started in a garage and now have a 2500sqft lease and we're doing well. I've been thinking about brand loyalty and what I want in our shop now that we need an auto and some better equipment. I think it's really important to game plan who you want to deal with when it comes to tech support, overall quality etc...

This is going to sound crazy, but I keep coming back to Ryonet for the Sroque. The only problem is I don't know if its a good idea to support them. This will sound rediculous, but even though Ryonet has great customer care they really started out as a business of selling products to new startups. I guess all the vendors are to a point, but Ryonet goes out of their way to get those new garage printers and help them grow. I know this because that's exactly how we got started...

Call me selfish, but I don't know if I want to support a company that is actively trying to make my new competition grow. The last thing I need is more competitors in my area. The profit they make from me goes to them so they can try to do just that.

See, all the suppliers are doing the same thing, but not like Ryonet is for the average Joe on the street looking for a new career. I really think the SRoque would be a good fit for us, customer care would be great, but I just don't want to be supporting a company that may very well help a competitor grow and take me out....

Bleh, maybe I should put the coffee down and sleep, been working 100+ hour weeks here at the shop....

To add to this, I have only recently been concerned. Think about it, they are constantly adding new screen printing classes around the country. They take a shop that is currently successful, help them get setup and trained to offer the screen printing experience class, help them make bank on the classes, but use them as a venue to sell Ryonet products. I mean these shops are actually training people to be their competitors.

Now I know some of you will say, well you have to diversify your business and be better than the rest blah blah, but the fact is, if every kid wanted to screen print, we'd all lose. The "middle class" of screen printers would lose. Only the high end shops doing work for big brands and the small guy will survive. Two different customers, and when garage printers start undercutting you by 2-3 bucks as a time you're done. I know cause thats exactly what I have done and now I am the "middle class" printer. I don't want to have my business taken away like I did to others.

 

[lrsbranding]

Wow. I don't even know what to say here. If you were a 3rd generation shop that helped start the whole industry I could understand your feelings, but by your own admission you are the person that you are condemning Ryonet for. Unbelievable

 

[binki]

All of our vendors sell to our competitors. If they didn't they wouldn't be around very long.

 

[JCS2013]

Wow. I don't even know what to say here. If you were a 3rd generation shop that helped start the whole industry I could understand your feelings, but by your own admission you are the person that you are condemning Ryonet for. Unbelievable

Not condemning anyone. Full Disclosure: I love the guys at Ryonet. Always super helpful and great to deal with. THEY ARE A FANTASTIC COMPANY.

BUT.... I also think outside the box. The bottom line is that Ryonet's business model is to create new competition for me. The profits from my sales go right back into that effort.

Obviously like Binki said all of the suppliers sell to our competitors, but they don't even come close to the mission and growth Ryonet has. Seriously, look at all the screen-printer experience classes popping up. Soon it will be a kids fad like POGS to own a Ryonet kit. It will drive the prices down and everyone and their mom will be a screen printer. Soon it will be like EDM and DJ's, everyone will be one and the Grammy's will even start having you play at the show.

Sorry, got a lil side tracked and facetious. To be clear this is not a DIS on Ryonet, its just simple business ideas. Ryonet WILL BE the premier supplier if they aren't already. They WILL be infiltrating every city in this country within 5 years, guaranteed. Whats going to happen to the middle class printer if 5 shops setup next to yours?

Meh, just wondering what others thought. My quality speaks for itself and I plan to diversify the business well enough to get over that, but I just don't think I can invest my money into a company that simply wants to build competition all around me.

 

[ryanmontgomery]

This is a bit insane! Why should anyone have a harder time than you? I doubt that Ryonet is doing anything other than helping their own brand, and loosing your business won't make a huge difference to them.

To me it just seems rather selfish, you want loyal customers (we all do) but you don't want to be loyal to a company for doing something that helped you get to where you are today.

 

[20vK]

How about this - do you think by you NOT buying from Ryonet that you will change anything for you or the way Ryonet operates?

Ryonet will carry on regardless and I'm pretty sure the profit they make on the sale of your press will make no overall difference to their current business model or strategy.

I think you should just get the press that's best for your business and focus on growing your business, not trying to preventing growth of a huge company on the off chance someone in your area will start their own printing company. Someone lookjng to start printing are going to do that whether you buy a press from Ryonet or from someone else.

 

[splathead]

You've made it so screw everyone else? Thank goodness the last successful shop just as you were getting started didn't have that same attitude. Where would you be?

If you're going to stop doing business with suppliers who sell to and educate startups, you may as well close up shop now because they ALL do it. So all suppliers should fail because you don't want competition?

 

[JCS2013]

How about this - do you think by you NOT buying from Ryonet that you will change anything for you or the way Ryonet operates?

Ryonet will carry on regardless and I'm pretty sure the profit they make on the sale of your press will make no overall difference to their current business model or strategy.

I think you should just get the press that's best for your business and focus on growing your business, not trying to preventing growth of a huge company on the off chance someone in your area will start their own printing company. Someone lookjng to start printing are going to do that whether you buy a press from Ryonet or from someone else.

This is a great response and why I still come back to the Sroque frequently during my research for our first auto.

At the end of the day I cannot control what happens, BUT I am curious what others think. I'm not so sure people realize what is coming in this industry. I'm probably the second wave of new printers since 2004 that are really making it in this industry. Snatching up my competitors' clients one by one simply because I price more affordably than they did and using techniques that Ryonet intially offered to help me do that. I know a bunch of owners who started after 2007 just like me and are THRIVING.

The question I guess doesn't matter because your point makes very good sense to me. I'm just really concerned whats going to happen when the 5th wave hits.

Lastly, DTG ink can't cost the manufacturer that much money right? What happens when every mall in america has a DTG kiosk and the ink costs $25 a liter?

Screen Printing is superior now, curious to see what happens in the next 5-7 years with DTG and how it changes our business. Screen Printing is fast, but I imagine DTG is going to be quicker and quicker and much less expensive than it is today.

OverandOut

 

[JCS2013]

You've made it so screw everyone else? Thank goodness the last successful shop just as you were getting started didn't have that same attitude. Where would you be?

If you're going to stop doing business with suppliers who sell and inform startups, you may as well close up shop now because they ALL do it. They all should fail because you don't want competition?

Hey guys, this post was just for thought and feedback on what others were thinking. I already stated my thoughts were selfish. I am not oblivious. But I'm also a businessman in a service industry. I have to be aware of my competition and realizing my money gets invested into my competition sorta perplexed me.

Take it easy. Its just brainstorming and throwing ideas out there. If it upsets you, don't let it.

 

[ryanmontgomery]

I feel flummoxed rather than upset.

This is how the world works, it's happening in every business these days and as times get harder more and more people will be looking for a way to earn extra money. You only have to look at facebook to see how many home cupcake/cake bakers there are, photographers are another area that is suffering. Web designers, graphic designers you name it!

Suppliers are happy to support these people because it's money for them and when 90% of them fail they will still be there to supply the 'proper' businesses.

 

[20vK]

Perhaps look at other industries that suddenly opened up to consumers and see how the industry changed.

Inkjet printers gave everyone the ability to print at home, but there are still commercial and professional printers making money and I bet nearly every one of their customers owns an inkjet printer.

The industry is certainly changing, and to where, I'm not sure. But I do think there is a difference between printing at home on a hobby kit and printing professionally - if you are in the position of looking for an auto, I think you are safer than you think. You can do high turnover fast with high quality. I think it is the guys on manuals who are more likely to suffer in the long run.

Don't forget, that there will always be people who simply don't want to try screen printing and will pay for it - it's not for everyone. Just as there are plenty of weekend warrior mechanics, most people take their cars to bigger shops.

 

[ryanmontgomery]

In photography every few years something comes along that is being called "The end of the industry". First it was handy film cameras, then auto exposure, auto focus was a big one and then digital now it's cheap digital cameras that create professional results. At the end of the day a camera does not take a picute just like a screen and some ink can't create a t-shirt.

 

[JCS2013]

Great POV's

 

[splathead]

Take it easy. Its just brainstorming and throwing ideas out there. If it upsets you, don't let it.

I am nowhere near upset. Just baffling that someone would purposely not do what's in the best interest of their company to 'punish' a supplier because they help others like they helped you.

Why stop with printing presses? Your phone company, bank, insurance company, garment suppliers, ink suppliers, etc. all sell to/service startups. You going to stop doing business with them too?

 

[Decal_Designs]

I understand where you are coming from, but you are looking in the wrong direction. As you have grown, you have gained ability, skill, knowledge, customer base, etc.
You are now capable of doing quantities, and more complex artwork than you were able to do in your past. It's not the small start ups that you need to be concerned with anymore. It's actually the other more advanced printers like yourself, that can handle large orders and have the ability through experience to handle more difficult projects. These are the printers that would be trying to get the work you are now looking for.
Your purchases at Ryonet and other providers are not helping them to support the new startups. The new startups are the ones that are helping Ryonet do that. Your purchases are helping Ryonet to be able to offer you the new automatics and all the stuff that goes along with your new needs. Plus now they can buy better cars and cooler boats because of you.

Don't worry about the 4/1 manual folks out there. Instead, contact them and offer your capabilities and services for the jobs they can't handle.
You might end up needing another auto in a year or two. Who knows?

 

[fdsales]

I don't think that any vendor that sold you equipment, supplies, ink, etc would not hesitate to sell their products to your competitor, or to anyone that wants to purchase their products and/or services.
You can't stop competition, besides competition is what keeps us improving ourselves. If there's a vendor that gives you good service, good pricing, & you like them, obviously it's their competition that has your vendor improving themselves, and that's why you & others do business with them. Same for you!!!

 

[Celtic]

I'll add too, that with so many industries, there's always people jumping into the game thinking that it LOOKS SO EASY that anyone can do it. I experienced this over the years with my airbrush work. At one point there was this big surge of people jumping in and buying them (with all the discovery shows with airbrush artwork on bikes/cars, etc) well, they learned that it's a whole lot of work, skill and artistic talent needed, not just this magic tool that you just aim and WHOOSH, magically, sweet artwork appears. Lots of airbrushes went up for sale when people gave up......I've seen the same thing with screenprinting.....in fact, I've purchased equipment from people who thought that it looks so easy and they could do it.........I totally understand the aspect of not wanting more competition, I'm there with ya. Most definitely. But, like mentioned, there's always going to be competition. We just have to stick to our strong points, skills and giving our customers that extra care that makes them want to work with us.

 

[20vK]

Good points made all round. It's happened in a lot of industries and most are still going.

I would say that photo development studios have certainly taken a hit, but most industries seemed to have adapted. As already mentioned, the fact that you are big enough for an auto puts you in a different league and category to the startups. I'm actually somewhat jealous!

I think you'll do just fine

 

[PatWibble]

I sort of understand where you are coming from.

It can be annoying when a new competitor steps on your toes. But that is what we all are doing to the guys that came before us.
It can be even more annoying when that competitor is doing it as a lucrative hobby, happy to work one night a week for the (tax free) price of a vacation.

You are probably right to worry about small start-up competition, but is boycotting one of your main suppliers the way forward? Speedball are probably encouraging more people into the industry with their kits than Ryonet are.

If you have set your sights on the sRoque press then you have to deal with Ryonet or buy a rowing boat and head for Portugal - turn right at the Azores!

The chances are that most of the start-ups and dreamers that Ryonet serve will fail. Screen printing looks easy on You Tube but how many have opened up their starter kit and dropped a trough full of emulsion on the rug? Or burnt a hole in the kitchen table with the heat gun?
Most of the ones who succeed would have probably done so anyway.

The simple fact of the matter is that any large expanding business needs lots of new customers to survive. From what I can see from afar Ryonet are intent on expanding, with or without you. Without those new customers then Ryonet probably wouldn't be able to keep the products you need on the shelves.


It's a fact of the modern business world that it is far easier to set up in business now than it was ten or twenty years ago.
No matter what trade you are in there is more and more 'amateur' and part time competition. With the growth of sites such as Amazon and Ebay, or social media it is no longer necessary to have the overhead of a premises.
I started in retail fashion in the 1980's and remember knocking on warehouse doors in the east end of London asking 'what do you sell?'. As often as not I would be told that 'we already have an outlet in your area' or 'minimum spend of £500'. It was an achievement to find good inventory to sell.
Nowadays everything is available online, there is often no minimum spend and the supplier will serve anybody.
Perhaps that is the way it should be.

You have probably benefited from this - how often have you phoned up for a small quantity of something at the last minute and been served cheerfully and quickly. It wouldn't have happened ten years ago ( 'is that all you want? - ok I'll try to get it out tomorrow.')

All any of us is entitled to is a level playing field. Competition is part of business, within the framework of the local business and taxation laws. If you think that someone is gaining an unfair advantage by trading 'under the radar' then the taxman is only a phone call away. You would be quite within your rights to do so.

But whatever you do, do not mistake the size of an enterprise with its legitimacy. Just because you have 2500 sq/ft and presumably some employees does not give you any more right to a slice of the cake than a one man operation.
If the guy down the street working from his garage can undercut you maybe it is because he has a better handle on his overheads. He may even be earning more than you.
Small can be very beautiful.

If by buying an auto you can increase your production without increasing staff or premises then smaller shops should fear you. You are the guy who is suddenly more competitive.