[tfike]

We have had our Kornit for a couple of years now and recently have been getting garments back that have had the print washing off. So far this seems to be totally random but was wondering if there was any testing we could do to guarantee that our prints will not wash off after just a couple of wash cycles? We have started to use a moisture tester at the end of our dryer and have been passing anything that reads 0%, if it reads higher we are running back through the tunnel again. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Also so far it only seems to be light color garments that we are having this issue with and we haven't had these issues with our own wash tests.

 

[agentrookie]

I've been having the same issue and have mentioned to Kornit that they have a problem with either their new version of Inks not binding to the Fixation OR there is a problem with their Fixation formulation. From my extensive testing it seems that there is something not right with the Fixation. I have tested the older inks and they seem to have the same issue with washing off.

Its really hard to monitor this as we, nor any other printer, cannot wash every garment to test it.
So I can confirm there is a washability issue and this issue is worldwide.

What temperature are you curing at and what type of dryer do you have?



Where abouts is your operation located.

 

[tfike]

We have an Adelco dryer and it's set at 290. We're located in Pennsylvania about an hour south of Pittsburgh. We have big variations in temperature and humidity throughout the course of the year which doesn't help us in curing. We've done everything that we know and have followed some of the advice we've found on this forum but still haven't been able to find any level or consistency.

 

[agentrookie]

I've got the Adelco 4 Tray. Great Dryer, however initially I had drying issues simply because the Electrician didn't wire the dryer to the 3 Phase outlet properly and the turbine was spinning the opposite way, so there was poor uneven heat air circulation. Get it checked just in case.

Secondly i think that your curing temperature is too low. I know for a Fact that I needed to cure at least 165 Degrees Celcius to get proper curing. This equates to about 330F. This is for 100% Cotton Tees.
Unfortunately from my testing the machine cannot print onto polyester without having major washing issues.

 

[tfike]

We initially had our dryer set to 325 but had problems getting the belt speed to the right setting. The control is very touchy on it and we would either be too quick and not cured or too slow and over cured. Kornit advised us to set the temp to 290-295 and run the garments through for a slightly longer time. It works most of the time that we know of since we can't wash every garment and we've only received a few complaints over the course of about 2 years. The only thing that's been consistent is that every garment that's washed off was a light color, we've had no issues with darks. Also for shirts that we've printed for our employees and they wear just about every week we have had no wash issues. Makes me think the consumers aren't washing them correctly but we have no way of knowing for sure.

 

[agentrookie]

Did some testing with a Kornit Technician that flew down from Israel. Seems like the ink doesn't properly cure below 160 degrees Celsius. Everything that was cured at 160 degrees didn't wash off.

 

[tfike]

We bumped up our dryer temp and have been having problems with lighter shirts burning when they go through. We are still playing with the belt speed but when the shirts quit burning the pre treat isn't dry. I see lots of people are using "cabinet" style dryers and I'm thinking of going to our owner about looking into purchasing one if they work better.

 

[abbashusain]

I would definitely stay away from the cabinet dryer. we had a 4 drawer adelco that became nothing but problems. Additionally, gas heat works better for DTG than the electrical. We have a split belt gas adelco dryer and it works a thousand times better.

We bumped up our dryer temp and have been having problems with lighter shirts burning when they go through. We are still playing with the belt speed but when the shirts quit burning the pre treat isn't dry. I see lots of people are using "cabinet" style dryers and I'm thinking of going to our owner about looking into purchasing one if they work better.

 

[tfike]

We have a split belt gas Adelco dryer as well but just haven't been able to get any consistent results out of it. We've tried different temperatures and belt speeds and everything but just seems like we fix one problem and create 5 more. We also have an owner that has no concept of how fickle printing on a DTG seems to be and is pushing us to have one setting that will be the magic setting to properly cure everything.

 

[A M I Clothing]

i think its the new fixation , we have had the same settings on our 931 for a year when it comes to temp/time in the dryer , and have just got two complaints on ink washing off on whites in the past month, so.... we have been tweeking the dry times and temps , then running sample test shirts in the wash/ tumble dryer at home to see , and yup its different than it was for the last year with the old fixation , we run the gas dryer at 305 for lights , leave em in till the scorch then speed the belt up a hair till they dont! , seems to work well , where as before the new fixation we had the belt set much faster and temp a bit higher , will keep at it this week and post results as they become more stable. all depends on how much fixation vrs ink vrs graphic , but looking for some good starting points for the staff to work with as the old ones are not working anymore !

 

[djamm]

We've had our Breeze for little over a year without any real issue, ok it was a headache at the start but that was just getting used to and understanding the machine. Now is a different story, we are turning out some great shirts and it has put no limits on our businesses capabilities regarding tee design. Having said that though in the last few months we have started getting shirts back from customers with prints washing off in parts. We haven't changed a thing as all our designs are queued in the rip software with each designs settings pre saved. It's really just a case of click and print for us. We have a 4 drawer cabinet dryer from Adelco running at 160 (as advised by Adelco engineer), all shirts are 100% cotton with colored shirts drying for 7min, hang overnight and dry for a further 30sec next day before bagging and shipping to eliminate any possible smell of fixation and ensure complete dryness.
So why are the prints washing off - I've done a wash test myself at cold wash 30 and lukewarm wash 40 and can peal the prints off by hand when they come out of both.
I'm at a loss but I'm beginning to think it's happening since we got our last combined delivery of white inks and fixation as I just can't think of anything else.

Anyone got any other ideas?
Thanks
D

 

[djamm]

We think we have solved the print washing off issue we have been experiencing in the last month. We are confident that it is a result of using the new odorless fixation agent. We have tested several shirts using the new odorless agent v's standard agent all on exactly the same settings and repeated print. On each wash test the shirts run with the new odorless agent all had areas of the print wash/peel off.
I hope this helps.

D

 

[tfike]

We are not using the odorless fixation, we tested it a while back and had some major staining issues with it so we switched back. However we hadn't started having any wash issues until after they started making the odorless fixation. Don't know if maybe there is some contamination happening at the manufacturing level or if they've made a change to the formulation of the fixation itself. We've started running our shirts through the dryer a second time and so far everything seems to be working out alright.

 

[NWEmbroidery]

After a few returned orders from washouts, we decided to err on the safe side of running our dryer longer. We keep our Adelco conveyor dryer at 310 degrees (actual temperature tends to be around 290-300) and run it for 9-10 min.

 

[agentrookie]

Guys I can also confirm the Odourless Fixation has issues with the print washing off, this has been also confirmed by my Kornit distributor after testing.

Stick to the standard fixation and try to cure the garments at no less than 160 degrees Celsius. You can go down to about 155 if white tees start to discolour BUT I would recommend a longer cure time. I'm currently running my avalanche through a Adelco 4 tray dryer at 165 degrees with curing time of 5 mins for whites and 7 - 8 mins for darks.

 

[RMacali]

Hirsch only sells the "vinegar" smelling pretreat since it is proven
Our large production customers range in temps from 270-300 degrees F
They also range from cure times of 8-12 minutes

The longer tunnel dryers have proven more popular and more reliable in today's Kornit market

The Adelco 2 meter oven works great for the 921 and 932
And, the 3 meter ovens have been popular for the 931
However, for multiple printers and the 951, we are suggesting at least a 6 meter oven if not longer

Rick Macali
[email protected]
440-488-6773

 

[m31uk3]

Has anyone tested IR Heat results?

We have recently turned our IR units off as it was actually fading the colors on the way in!

Agree completely with gas over electric seems to be all about consistent evaporation of the fixation.

 

[WindoraBug]

Has anyone tested IR Heat results?

We have recently turned our IR units off as it was actually fading the colors on the way in!

Agree completely with gas over electric seems to be all about consistent evaporation of the fixation.

What are the benefits of the IR panels? We have one, but it's never been on. Recently I was looking into curing other print types in the dryer, would using the IR be beneficial ? I have yet to consult anyone from the manufacturer yet, as I have been discussing a different issue with them firstly.

 

[boneida]

Has anyone tried curing then heat pressing the shirt to see if that makes any difference?

 

[Ghoster32111]

Has anyone tried curing then heat pressing the shirt to see if that makes any difference?

I do this some times on certain shirts like performance shirts it helps but you need to use light pressure and it can't be that long or you get dye migration I usually do it for 4-6 seconds that's all