Howdy! Does anyone know if it's possible to print black ink WITHOUT a white underlay when printing on dark garments on a F2100? Is my only option to adjust ink density? I'm printing a full color design on a dark garment that has large areas of solid black and it's coming out too shiny.
Possible to print black without a white underlay?
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One of the (few) pitfalls of Garment Creator. I have been harping (asking nicley?) to the "powers that be" about this at Epson for a while now but so far no luck.
ANSWER - You can download a trial version of the CBreeze RIP created by my good friend Fred and get through it that way. After that I am sure you'll like it so much (and it is so inexpensive, especially compared to "those other guys") that you'll want to purchase it. Right Fred??
C-BreezeRIP Download
Once you DL the software review the "how to" manual. The CBreeze software (PC only) is very user friendly. Now you'll be able to dial down the amount of white ink that is laid under the black.
A word of caution - DO NOT go below 50% white under your black ink or you'll run the risk of the black washing out over just a few washes. No doubt you don't want that to happen.
ANSWER - You can download a trial version of the CBreeze RIP created by my good friend Fred and get through it that way. After that I am sure you'll like it so much (and it is so inexpensive, especially compared to "those other guys") that you'll want to purchase it. Right Fred??
C-BreezeRIP Download
Once you DL the software review the "how to" manual. The CBreeze software (PC only) is very user friendly. Now you'll be able to dial down the amount of white ink that is laid under the black.
A word of caution - DO NOT go below 50% white under your black ink or you'll run the risk of the black washing out over just a few washes. No doubt you don't want that to happen.
Thanks for the recommendation. Although, I'm confused by your word of caution. Why would the black wash out? Wouldn't it be the same as printing on a light colored garment where a white underlay isn't required? Btw, Garment Creator is currently laying down about 50% white under the black. It sounds like C-Breeze does the same thing, right?
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I am not sure what the claim by GC is for the % of underbase white is but there have been a LOT of instances when it sure looked like a heck of a lot more than 50% white under the black on some of my prints. that is why you get the greyish look with big areas of black in GC.
CBreeze will let you dial it all the down to 0 if you wish. I have found that in CBreeze 50% is just about right.
CBreeze will let you dial it all the down to 0 if you wish. I have found that in CBreeze 50% is just about right.
Black will not stick to pretreatment by itself. It must lay on raw cotton fabric or white ink. If you don't put enough white ink down under the black it will not hold up in the wash so you have figure out what the least amount of white printed under the black that you can get away with and still hold up. GC calculates this for you and IMO goes overboard with it. CBreeeze let's you dial it in yourself.
We just had our F2100 installed, and we were told this wasn't an issue - that Epson CMYK inks would adhere fine to pretreated cotton.
We haven't done a lot of testing just yet, but if what you're saying is true, why wouldn't there be a 100% underbase block on all garments - no gradation under darker colors?
We have an order of about 100 black shirts coming in and I don't want to send them out if they will fade after a wash or two.
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That is correct. I never said that it wouldn't. I have posted this in here before but let me say it again.
~CMYK Inks (this includes black ink BTW) will ONLY stick to 100% cotton (you can include 50/50 in there somewhat) with NO pretreatment AND it will stick to white ink that is laid down for an under base.
~White ink will ONLY stick to Pretreatment and will not hold up if printed on 100% cotton WITHOUT pretreatment.
~CMYK (this includes black ink) will NOT stick to pretreatment without a white under base laid out under it.
So what if it's a white t shirt pre treated with EPSON cotton mixed 1-9 and the image is mostly black text with a bit of colour - do you still need to lay down white under it? onto a white shirt because it's got pretreatment on it? I'm trying to troubleshoot because the black ink came out nice but once it heat pressed for 40 seconds at 330 degrees it muted to a dark grey and I'm trying to figure it out (I laid white down in settings)
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Well, after a couple years have past since I replied in those posts it all looks to be a bit different to me now with some experience under my belt.
I am now pretreating white tees and printing black and color right on top of it WITHOUT ANY white underbase and it is working just fine for me.
I did however in the past print some color tees with a white underbase using a third party RIP to lessen the white underbase under black print areas and it seems that I went too far with it because after a handful of washings the black areas started to fade terribly. This led me to believe what I had said about this in 2018 but now I'm not so sure.
Best thing to do is to experiment and use your own best results.
I am now pretreating white tees and printing black and color right on top of it WITHOUT ANY white underbase and it is working just fine for me.
I did however in the past print some color tees with a white underbase using a third party RIP to lessen the white underbase under black print areas and it seems that I went too far with it because after a handful of washings the black areas started to fade terribly. This led me to believe what I had said about this in 2018 but now I'm not so sure.
Best thing to do is to experiment and use your own best results.
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