Joined
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12 Posts
Hey there,
I was sold on the Permaboss Mini Motif Maker machine (same as Motif Maker that drills template boards but smaller and about $9000 after all was said and done to the U.S.)
I also got the hard sell and the scare tactics from the sales guy who also happens to be the president of the company. With this entry-level machine I'm still a small fish in a big pond but did not want to go with the cheapest option (Roland or similar)... I thought I remember being told this machine was manufactured in Europe... maybe my memory is bad on that part. (Anyway for the record it's made in China but IS well-constructed).
Anyway... I took delivery of one of the first 10 or so machines ever made, supposedly, in July 2007. From the start my machine did not work correctly, it did not drill accurate, precise holes. I worked with tech support (who is very good by the way) for 6 months but we could not get the problem solved. This is a big problem by the way... means it takes about 5 times as long to MAKE a template and about 5 times as long to USE the template when you're dealing with rough holes that aren't round.
During this entire process over many months with practically weekly communication with support, never once could I get attention of the president who originally sold me my machine. I tried. I let him know I received a machine I couldn't use in business. Support should have kept him up to date as well. He was a great salesperson but had no followup when there was a problem (which you could argue is what makes a great salesperson - they can separate pre-sales and post-sales).
After 6 months and DOZENS of hours I finally hired an expert to come in and take a look (why didn't I think of this before?). It took him less than 30 seconds to resolve my problem (bit spinning backwards, motor had been reverse wired from the factory) and it took me about half an hour to learn how to change the motor direction and now it works nicely.
I still have problems getting holes drilled of consistent DEPTH - they need to be a precise, consistent depth or else not all the stones will set correctly (I'm talking about fractions of a millimeter here, very precise) - and this is something we're still sorting through. I think perhaps the boards they are sending me are not of consistent thickness, also they warped pretty badly so I am waiting on more to come in. Also I have found another locally-available material that works quite well that is cheaper and readily available.
Anyway, I am finally getting happy with the machine but have had a disappointing overall experience with Permaboss. I realize I'm buying industrial equipment here, not a lobster dinner but I feel I deserve some personal attention from someone who has a personal stake in the game.
Can you imagine how it felt to purchase a machine that should have allowed me to expand my business into new realms and have to miss the entire 2008 holiday season and delay 6 months because of a manufacturing defect? If the expert I hired had not found the problem some serious action would have then been taken - getting them to come out here and diagnose or exchange the machine at no cost. It's a little tougher being that I'm in the US and they are in Canada regarding legal remedies but fortunately the wife of an acquaintance of mine in Toronto is an attorney who was ready to help me out if I needed it.
Anyway, this is MY personal experience and should not be construed as the standard for Permaboss. Supposedly their high-end equipment (the $80-$125k machines) are industry leaders and I hope to be in the position to buy one someday (at which time you know I will be checking out ALL the competition). But here are the problems or potential problems I encountered:
- I bought v1.0 of a new machine; this like anything (cars included) always carries risk;
- buying directly from Canada complicates things a little (currency conversion, customs, though they did a good job of helping eliminate customs by shipping from NY), decreased legal remedy options
- they also have their own version of proprietary rhinestone software (RhinestoneWorx) so they don't have to license another and can make more profit but it's in the early stages and a little buggy and is has been missing some needed features... I have the feeling that I have been a big contributor in helping them improve the software and fix bugs
- I'm not sure the machine is useful for anything else other than making rhienestone templates with their software. Perhaps it's a standard CNC machine and can be put to other uses if I sell it to someone else as a CNC machine
I hope others have had better experiences with them. I was definitely time-pressured into the purchase but I accept 100% responsibility for pulling the trigger and buying the machine. Just do your homework first to make sure that you are going with the best option for your needs.
To sum it up, a simple phone call or e-mail once a month from Rob would have probably put me at ease and known I was an appreciated customer and caused me to write a completely different review here. I guess I just run my company differently.
I was sold on the Permaboss Mini Motif Maker machine (same as Motif Maker that drills template boards but smaller and about $9000 after all was said and done to the U.S.)
I also got the hard sell and the scare tactics from the sales guy who also happens to be the president of the company. With this entry-level machine I'm still a small fish in a big pond but did not want to go with the cheapest option (Roland or similar)... I thought I remember being told this machine was manufactured in Europe... maybe my memory is bad on that part. (Anyway for the record it's made in China but IS well-constructed).
Anyway... I took delivery of one of the first 10 or so machines ever made, supposedly, in July 2007. From the start my machine did not work correctly, it did not drill accurate, precise holes. I worked with tech support (who is very good by the way) for 6 months but we could not get the problem solved. This is a big problem by the way... means it takes about 5 times as long to MAKE a template and about 5 times as long to USE the template when you're dealing with rough holes that aren't round.
During this entire process over many months with practically weekly communication with support, never once could I get attention of the president who originally sold me my machine. I tried. I let him know I received a machine I couldn't use in business. Support should have kept him up to date as well. He was a great salesperson but had no followup when there was a problem (which you could argue is what makes a great salesperson - they can separate pre-sales and post-sales).
After 6 months and DOZENS of hours I finally hired an expert to come in and take a look (why didn't I think of this before?). It took him less than 30 seconds to resolve my problem (bit spinning backwards, motor had been reverse wired from the factory) and it took me about half an hour to learn how to change the motor direction and now it works nicely.
I still have problems getting holes drilled of consistent DEPTH - they need to be a precise, consistent depth or else not all the stones will set correctly (I'm talking about fractions of a millimeter here, very precise) - and this is something we're still sorting through. I think perhaps the boards they are sending me are not of consistent thickness, also they warped pretty badly so I am waiting on more to come in. Also I have found another locally-available material that works quite well that is cheaper and readily available.
Anyway, I am finally getting happy with the machine but have had a disappointing overall experience with Permaboss. I realize I'm buying industrial equipment here, not a lobster dinner but I feel I deserve some personal attention from someone who has a personal stake in the game.
Can you imagine how it felt to purchase a machine that should have allowed me to expand my business into new realms and have to miss the entire 2008 holiday season and delay 6 months because of a manufacturing defect? If the expert I hired had not found the problem some serious action would have then been taken - getting them to come out here and diagnose or exchange the machine at no cost. It's a little tougher being that I'm in the US and they are in Canada regarding legal remedies but fortunately the wife of an acquaintance of mine in Toronto is an attorney who was ready to help me out if I needed it.
Anyway, this is MY personal experience and should not be construed as the standard for Permaboss. Supposedly their high-end equipment (the $80-$125k machines) are industry leaders and I hope to be in the position to buy one someday (at which time you know I will be checking out ALL the competition). But here are the problems or potential problems I encountered:
- I bought v1.0 of a new machine; this like anything (cars included) always carries risk;
- buying directly from Canada complicates things a little (currency conversion, customs, though they did a good job of helping eliminate customs by shipping from NY), decreased legal remedy options
- they also have their own version of proprietary rhinestone software (RhinestoneWorx) so they don't have to license another and can make more profit but it's in the early stages and a little buggy and is has been missing some needed features... I have the feeling that I have been a big contributor in helping them improve the software and fix bugs
- I'm not sure the machine is useful for anything else other than making rhienestone templates with their software. Perhaps it's a standard CNC machine and can be put to other uses if I sell it to someone else as a CNC machine
I hope others have had better experiences with them. I was definitely time-pressured into the purchase but I accept 100% responsibility for pulling the trigger and buying the machine. Just do your homework first to make sure that you are going with the best option for your needs.
To sum it up, a simple phone call or e-mail once a month from Rob would have probably put me at ease and known I was an appreciated customer and caused me to write a completely different review here. I guess I just run my company differently.