Original designs inspired by movies - legalities?

2938 Views 26 Replies 8 Participants Last post by seacookie, Feb 24, 2018

Firelakeco

Discussion Starter · Feb 18, 2018

Hi,

Lets keep it quick and simple, as I'm aware there's been lots of topics on movie licensing quotes or images etc...

But what about designs inspired by movies, the real life locations and so forth.

Where do you stand in terms of IP infringement if you created a tee based on a real-life location, with nods to the movie in the design (without using quotes or names from the film) ?

Obviously, linking to the movie is a big draw in terms of marketing and so is mentioning a movie that inspired a design still risky?

i.e. I loved Gremlins as a child, it reminded me of this place, so I made a design (which features indirect nods to the movie - no quotes or imagery is used, just a completely original design).

This is just an example, but I wondered where the line in the sand was, could you get away with the above example provided you DON'T mention Gremlins what-so-ever?

Only seasoned movie lovers would `get it` but again, it's hard to market products like this without acknowledging the original source of inspiration...

Looking forward to the slew of answers / debate!

Paul

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

NoXid

· #2 · Feb 18, 2018

If the design only has value due to its association with IP, then it should rightly be seen as an infringement.

Parody is a gray area, to be determined by a court/jury ... and whoever has the better lawyer.

Of course, people "get away" with straight-out IP infringement every day, all day, and work overtime on it on Sundays ;-) Some businesses/organizations have their own enforcement people out there looking for infringement, some have contracts with third party companies that do that work for them, others don't have the resources or are erratic about looking for violators. YMMV.

But is it infringement? Yes. :-/

More to the point, and as you allude, you cannot effectively market the design without mentioning the IP that it infringes. Putting it out there without those words will be like locking it in your basement. Using words associated with the IP will be a GPS signal to the IP holder to drop a bomb of lawyers on your secret horde of Gremlins ;-)

Reactions: 1

Firelakeco

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 18, 2018

Totally agree and I'm not into ripping off or riding off the back of others without the right agreements in place

But - say Gremlins was filmed in Kentucky and the cinema in the movie was a real life cinema - if you created a tee based on Kentucky, the cinema and some furry balls (no Gremlins or Mogwai) and never mentioned the movie - where do you stand legally?

Again, putting a tee online like this without any kind of link to the movie will surely see it rot in the basement as you say, I'm just curious.

Cheers!

kimura-mma

· #4 · Feb 21, 2018

Firelakeco said:
where do you stand legally?

You stand in "no man's land" because there really isn't enough precedence either way. An obscure reference will probably fly under the radar. But if the IP owner does find out, they can take action. That is the risk one has to take.

webtrekker

· #5 · Feb 22, 2018

Hmm, ... doesn't seem to bother this store - https://arcanestore.com/

Personally, I think you'd get away with it as long as the designs were a bit abstract and didn't inlude logos or direct quotes from the movies.

BadZebedee

· #6 · Feb 22, 2018

I've always wondered about this myself. There seem to be plenty of larger companies that use 'Inspired by ...' and then have a graphic, phrase or logo from within the film without it being the film's logo or title itself. Not just one man band selling cheap knock offs on eBay.

Firelakeco

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 22, 2018

Done a lot of reading and investigating, the companies really don't bother replying, so its more a game of working out what is / isn't copyright / ip infringement it seems - a lot of these other tshirt sites also dont tell you how they do it (nice to help like-minded people it seems not!) because they aren't sure / or just make the same assumptions / checks.

kimura-mma

· #8 · Feb 22, 2018

What do you want those other companies to tell you? They haven’t “figured out” how to legally infringe. They are creating and selling their designs and hoping to never get sued.

Reactions: 2

NoXid

· #9 · Feb 22, 2018

kimura-mma said:
What do you want those other companies to tell you? They haven’t “figured out” how to legally infringe. They are creating and selling their designs and hoping to never get sued.

Exactly.

Rather like how my dad robbed a bank hoping never to get arrested. IP theft is theft, whether or not you get away with it.

I've tried to stay on the "right" side of this issue, but did get busted on Etsy when an IP holder took issue with one of my designs. I knew I was pushing it on that one. They found me and pushed back. To be clear, my designs are typically 100% my own and have nothing to do with anyones IP at all. But I made a tribute shirt for the impressive array of people who died in 2016. Doh!

You'll get more money robbing banks than ripping off IP for T-shirts, and it has a Federally funded retirement and health plan

Reactions: 1

DrivingZiggy

· #10 · Feb 23, 2018

These are not the hemorrhoids you're looking for.

seacookie

· #11 · Feb 23, 2018

NoXid said:
Exactly.

Rather like how my dad robbed a bank hoping never to get arrested. IP theft is theft, whether or not you get away with it.

I've tried to stay on the "right" side of this issue, but did get busted on Etsy when an IP holder took issue with one of my designs. I knew I was pushing it on that one. They found me and pushed back. To be clear, my designs are typically 100% my own and have nothing to do with anyones IP at all. But I made a tribute shirt for the impressive array of people who died in 2016. Doh!

You'll get more money robbing banks than ripping off IP for T-shirts, and it has a Federally funded retirement and health plan

Is there any difference between: making a t-shirt and selling it & selling what somebody else made? If we are talking about the law. And if I go further with this: if someone just sells t-shirts which bought from someone, how does he knows that they are in copyright violation and what does the law say about that?
Cause tee-spring and bunch of similar sites are doing just that.

Food for thoughts:
I doubt you would have problems if you would open business in Romania(or similar countries) and sell on etsy and use pod ...

NoXid

· #12 · Feb 24, 2018

seacookie said:
Is there any difference between: making a t-shirt and selling it & selling what somebody else made? If we are talking about the law. And if I go further with this: if someone just sells t-shirts which bought from someone, how does he knows that they are in copyright violation and what does the law say about that?
Cause tee-spring and bunch of similar sites are doing just that.

Food for thoughts:
I doubt you would have problems if you would open business in Romania(or similar countries) and sell on etsy and use pod ...

There is liability to the seller if it can be shown that they knew. Those places are quick to take a shirt down if an IP holder complains, but they also make a point of NOT policing what their members post ... because if they did, then they would be liable for any violations that got past their review process.

Merch By Amazon actually does review everything, so they would likely share in liability. Of course, that was supposed to be for a band, or the like, using Amazon as a POD to sell their own MERCHANDISE to their fans, not for people to sell random stuff to random people, which is how it is now used.

seacookie

· #13 · Feb 24, 2018

NoXid said:
There is liability to the seller if it can be shown that they knew. Those places are quick to take a shirt down if an IP holder complains, but they also make a point of NOT policing what their members post ... because if they did, then they would be liable for any violations that got past their review process.

Merch By Amazon actually does review everything, so they would likely share in liability. Of course, that was supposed to be for a band, or the like, using Amazon as a POD to sell their own MERCHANDISE to their fans, not for people to sell random stuff to random people, which is how it is now used.

So if I understand there is a loop hole which anybody can take advantage of it they have creativity with loop holes?

This sentence sounds funny

NoXid

· #14 · Feb 24, 2018

seacookie said:
So if I understand there is a loop hole which anybody can take advantage of it they have creativity with loop holes? This sentence sounds funny

No loopholes for the person creating the IP infringing art, but for the selling platform, yes.

seacookie

· #15 · Feb 24, 2018

NoXid said:
No loopholes for the person creating the IP infringing art, but for the selling platform, yes.

So if designer aka seller shows ''proof'' he bought designs from imagery designer his *** is safe. Or if he buy 10x5bucks designs and toss them away and blame that fiverr designer if he gets caught. He would just need to remove designs from his storefront.

We are talking hypothetically. I am just thinking outloud -.-

NoXid

· #16 · Feb 24, 2018

seacookie said:
So if designer aka seller shows ''proof'' he bought designs from imagery designer his *** is safe. Or if he buy 10x5bucks designs and toss them away and blame that fiverr designer if he gets caught. He would just need to remove designs from his storefront.

We are talking hypothetically. I am just thinking outloud -.-

No

The person who bought the designs and intends to sell them would need a licensing agreement with the IP owner. I'm talking stuff that is obviously not the IP of the "imaginary" artist, like Spiderman.

If it were a drawing/photo of some random seeming sort, and the artist claimed it was their original art, but then someone came along and showed that the guy had just stolen his work, then you could probably pass the blame to the "imaginary" artist ... at least if you had a bill of sale / agreement from him in which he claims to be selling or licensing to you rights to use his IP.

A Fiver sort of work agreement might be seen as Work For Hire, in which case you are the employer and are responsible for what the artist does, and own what the artist does ... so the buck stops at you

seacookie

· #17 · Feb 24, 2018

NoXid said:
No The person who bought the designs and intends to sell them would need a licensing agreement with the IP owner. I'm talking stuff that is obviously not the IP of the "imaginary" artist, like Spiderman.

If it were a drawing/photo of some random seeming sort, and the artist claimed it was their original art, but then someone came along and showed that the guy had just stolen his work, then you could probably pass the blame to the "imaginary" artist ... at least if you had a bill of sale / agreement from him in which he claims to be selling or licensing to you rights to use his IP.

A Fiver sort of work agreement might be seen as Work For Hire, in which case you are the employer and are responsible for what the artist does, and own what the artist does ... so the buck stops at you

hehe

Soooooooooo how the court knows seller watched or seen spiderman?

Is this more like what judge decide or what?

And hypothetically off course

I can make designer fiver account on some library computer- different ip and just write something in the style of: I am the maker of this bla bla bla and sell to my self. Buying as a seller from my home ip. And it would be cheaper. Cause I would loss only money which fiverr takes for them!

Would this work? -.-

MadeDesigns

· #18 · Feb 24, 2018

seacookie said:
... if someone just sells t-shirts which bought from someone, how does he knows that they are in copyright violation and what does the law say about that?
....
....

Every retailer ( Re-Seller) must have receipts to prove where they bought the item from originally.

Expect at-least a ticket and confiscation of items.
If your selling under $5k of the stuff it's not even worth looking into or doing. Also, people don't really buy knock offs like that if they know they are fake. So you have to sell for cheap to get any sales. When does it become worth it?

When you wholesale over $30k of bootlegs to someone and dispensary. BUT! china has that covered.

The people who get the most sales are original designs that touch upon an idea or subject. Target a specific audience and work it.

kimura-mma

· #19 · Feb 24, 2018

seacookie said:
And hypothetically off course I can make designer fiver account on some library computer- different ip and just write something in the style of: I am the maker of this bla bla bla and sell to my self. Buying as a seller from my home ip. And it would be cheaper. Cause I would loss only money which fiverr takes for them!

Would this work? -.-

No that wouldn't work. You're thinking of it like a criminal case where if you can prove someone else is guilty, then you may be innocent. Civil cases don't work that way. If you are sued as a reseller of infringement/counterfeit goods, you will pay the price if you are guilty (and you would be guilty in your example). If you think someone else is responsible as well, you can turn around and sue that person to recoup some of the damages you paid in the original case. But if that person doesn't really exist, there is no way to help recoup your damages - so you stay in the exact position you started... guilty.

Reactions: 1

DrivingZiggy

· #20 · Feb 24, 2018

seacookie said:
I am just thinking outloud -.-

*Asking for a friend.

Reactions: 3

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.