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Discussion Starter #1
As requested here is a place for vendors to make their statements, clams, rebuttals, info....whatever! On the merits of their ink delivery systems, all vendors, distributors, manufacturers are encouraged to post the pro and cons of theirs vs all the others, and the reasons why!

This is a slug-fest everything goes, please folks keep it clean and truthful.

I got the popcorn, who's got the Cokes?:)
 

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I'm not so sure we need a slug-fest. Users on this forum can attest to the value that was added when their machines were switched over to the PrintsRite Ink System (degassed and bagged ink). Of course, it comes standard on the Mod1 and various people on these forums can attest to the same successes.
 

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I like the concept of this thread.
Maybe we could have one for actual users as well. Let the users of WIMS comment on how their machines run before and after the upgrade. What are the problems with WIMS, what are the problems with Bags.
The point of this forum is for people to help each other. If I'm giving my experience on what made my Kiosk finally run without clogging, I don't want to hear from Salespeople bashing the way I solved it.
 

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Degassing ink also "thickens" it. Our WIMS system is closed once the ink is put into it. Ink is drawn from the bottom and then filtered twice (inline filter & damper) before printing.

I won't reference my own - "scientific evidence" at this point. :)
Don, last year when we were about to upgrade to the WIMS I got to see 2 HM1's running the system. They both had sludge build up in the bottom of the container. I suppose the rest of it was being stirred and circulated, but there was a good amount of build up at the bottom.
 

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Adam,

The WIMS circulation on the HM1-C does not have a flat bottom - it is an inverted bottle. It sounds like you looked at the earlier HM1 system that had a flat bottomed resevior with a magnetic stir pill in it.

The WIMS circulation system is on over 1400 (100+ HM1-Cs, 300+ Vipers and over 100 K-3s) DTG brand printers that are currently in operation around the world - it is a proven system that has been used extensively over the last two full years. Our tech support records verify that the incednce of printhead clogging when proper maintenance is done very small.

Can the bag system boast a similar sample group to compare against?

Thanks
 

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If I'm giving my experience on what made my Kiosk finally run without clogging, I don't want to hear from Salespeople bashing the way I solved it.
Adam,

I am not bashing the bag system as a retrofit to ANY old bulk ink system. I am comparing it as a standard accessory on a new printer versus the WIMS system. I see the merits in both systems. I've had extensive conversations with the ink manufacturer about the merits of the degassing process and the conclusion was that there was no significant benefit of it over a circulation system and no benefit at all on the colors.

As a consumer one needs to also weigh the benefits of having a fixed "sole source" for your consumables. We (distributors) all want you to buy your ink from us, but most folks want to know that they have an option.

Sorry if you read my earlier replies as an attack on what you had done, wasn't meant that way.
 

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I've had extensive conversations with the ink manufacturer about the merits of the degassing process and the conclusion was that there was no significant benefit of it over a circulation system and no benefit at all on the colors.
I guess we have different ink manufactures :0

Maybe you should consider writing an article in Ink World magazine on the topic of how degassing has no merit in ink jet applications.
There are a lot of machine manufactures that would rather not go thought that process since it's not beneficial anyway...according to you.

Let us know when you publish that one:)

Can the bag system boast a similar sample group to compare against?
In time...
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm not so sure we need a slug-fest.
Jerid,

The purpose of the thread is to provide a place for the distributors/vendors (whoever) to voice their opinions about their competitors ink delivery systems, so many times a user will ask a question and the question gets lost in the opinion of the vendors in one way or another debating the various aspects of their delivery system. While it's entertaining to some of us it's not beneficial to the OP seeking answers to their problems.

Also it should provide a place for you guys to blow off a little steam, DTG printing is a rough business, from selling the machines to customer support, relax, have a little fun, take a poke at your competition, instead of doing it in a users thread...do it here.

Now if we could just get Peter in here to discuss his 100% customer satisfaction and provide the drinks!:)
 

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While the idea of a thread comparing the different ink delivery systems sounds like a good idea, the problem with having a "vendor" slug-fest is that we don't allow members to promote their own companies products/services in the posts.

I like Adams idea of a separate thread where users share their experience with the different ink delivery systems (like other thread stuck to the top of this forum where machine owners share their overall experience with their machines). I think that would be really helpful to others who are doing machine research.

I'm not sure how a thread where different vendors boast about their machines would be any different than visiting the vendors website or talking to them over the phone to get machine specs and capabilities.
 

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The value I see of having the vendors post their opinions in a thread is that the message is consistent to all of the readers and researchers on this forum. Having each interested party contact the vendor one by one encourages the vendor to tailor the style and amount of information to the person asking the questions and there is a high chance of "he said, she said" after the discussion.

Asking the vendors to more or less go on record encourages what T-ShirtForums is famous for, information that can be reviewed, digested and recalled on demand buy any user at any time.

I would say it is up to the vendors at this point to make good use of a tool that will only increase their visibility in a positive light if the information they post is accurate and applicable for their existing and future customers.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Ultimately it's Rodney's call, I started this thread as stated above because of the way some threads turn away from the Op's question and into a "mine is better than yours" and I feel that the person asking the question may in some way feel slighted by it.

I know TSF doesn't allow "Self-Promotion" and I do understand why that is the rule but my intent here was to provide a place for rebuttal which is in a way anti-self-promotion.

Hope you all understand.
 
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