[vadan]

Hey all,

As the title suggests, We're finally ready to take the step in to sign vinyl and car decals.

I have a few questions... Been reading up on the board but require some clarification, think i've had info overdose!

So far I know manufacturers for the vinyl inc. Ritrama and Orocal (seem to have far more colours).

There are 2 type of application tape: paper and clear, from R-Tape, Ritrama, Orafol and TransferRite.

The popular choice across the board seems like Oracal and R-Tape.

We want mainly to be able to do text signs for application to glass and possibly some application to vehicles.

What I would like is a comprehensive guide to starting up, to help me and others new to this.

What manufacturer offers the best:
1. Ease of application
2. Quality
3. Price

What are the different types of substrates you can apply decals to and how do you decide which vinyl suits the substrate best?

What application requires which application tape, how is tack adhesion determined.

What is the process from start to end to create a 1 colour sign/decal, as this is for beginners, anyone who wishes to know 2 colour/full colour application feel free to ask within this post.

what is the best overall package for getting used to signage?

I'm hoping with all your knowledge and experiences we can build a good guide for beginners.

Thanks in adv.

Raj

 

[IYFGraphics]

We want mainly to be able to do text signs for application to glass and possibly some application to vehicles.

Your really talking about the most basic application of vinyl for signage.

What I would like is a comprehensive guide to starting up, to help me and others new to this.

Great idea......

What manufacturer offers the best:
1. Ease of application
2. Quality
3. Price

Their are two types of vinyl used for signage, "cast" and "calendered", calendered has the lowest cost, shortest lifespan, worst performance. Cast vinyl is considered "premium" vinyl, has good durability without lamination and IMHO is the preferred vinyl for outdoor use.

If your looking for a specific brand......your going to get a lot of opinions based on peoples experiences, I think all of the major manufactures of vinyl produce high quality "cast vinyl" for signage and I doubt you'll find a lot of difference in performance, quality, ease of use until you start talking about "off brand" vinyl.

But to answer your question we use 3M or Oracal for most outdoor signage, for short term usage (like yard signs) we use Shinerite or Oracal.

What are the different types of substrates you can apply decals to and how do you decide which vinyl suits the substrate best?

Most any hard, smooth, substrate can have vinyl applied to it, as to which is used is determined by how long will the sign need to last, is it exposed to the elements? direct sunlight? is it going to be on a vehicle that will be washed?

Vinyl is normally rated in years of exposure before it starts to degrade either in adhesive bond, color fading, remove-ability. Naturally vinyl signage in doors would last many years while the same sign outside in direct sunlight would have a much shorter lifespan.

What application requires which application tape, how is tack adhesion determined.

For signage normally a low-medium tack application tape is all that's necessary this is the tape that looks like masking tape, the clear application tape is IMHO more for decals that you would sell that the consumer would apply, the clear tape makes for a better looking product to sell.

What is the process from start to end to create a 1 colour sign/decal, as this is for beginners, anyone who wishes to know 2 colour/full colour application feel free to ask within this post.

In the simplest of terms....design, cut, apply.

In a broader sense, consult client, rough sketch, photo the building signage location, check with local zoning board for signage permit, design, client approval or revisions/changes, cut, weed, apply application tape/ squeegee, trim, clean substrate with soap & water, dry, clean again with alcohol, measure, tape graphic to substrate, remove half of backing and squeegee out, remove other half of backing and squeegee out, remove transfer tape by pull back over itself at a sharp angle, inspect for tunnels or air pockets and remove any found, final squeegee with sleeve to protect graphic, photograph for portfolio, invoice customer and collect payment....

what is the best overall package for getting used to signage?

When you say "package" are you referring to software?

If so most cutter programs use vector graphics, so you could do your design in Corel or Adobe Illustrator both are vector graphic programs, you could then import the graphic into your cutter program, scale and cut.

Most cutter software is made to do design work, and basic text would be very simple to create, add effects, and cut directly out of that program saving time and steps.

There are also powerful programs made specifically for sign makers like Cut Studio, Sign Lab, Flexisign, these programs are great for most everyday use.

Hope this helps.

 

[vadan]

Hey Jon,

This is great stuff, exactly the type of response I was hoping for. It's amazing how much of what you said I already knew but to have it clarified makes much more sense now. I never knew about "cast" and "calendered" so thats good as i've been looking on MDP and they have calendered on their interior use vinyl and I wondered what it was...

By package I meant in terms of material, sorry should have been clear on that, but from your guide and some research you can pretty much figure it out.

As i'm merely starting to test this week and get the feel for the process (though its more or less same as when you cut'n'weed for heat press). I want to get more familiar with the actual application. I read on a few posts the clear app tape is best for beginners like me as it makes it easier to apply because you can see the design.

I want to add from what i've gathered, during the cut process you should note whether (if say a shop window) the sign sits outside or inside. If it's sitting inside readable from outside then remember to cut in the negative, is that right?

I tried earlier before this post with the application tape I have (which I use with rhinestones, not the hot fix), the decal stuck to the app tape, I assume tack was too strong?

Thanks again Jon, I hope others post their knowledge and experiences, would also be great to hear from users that have recently started signage and the struggles they had...

Cheer,

Raj

 

[IYFGraphics]

By package I meant in terms of material, sorry should have been clear on that, but from your guide and some research you can pretty much figure it out.

Yeah, hard to say, you never know what job your going to do next so buying a lot of material in advance (since vinyl does have a shelf life) isn't really recommended, we normally keep white, black, red, green and yellow in stock for yard signs, and white, black for general signage in a premium cast vinyl if we have a job that requires another color we will buy a few yards extra and over time accumulate a little stock.

We have a Roland Versacamm and print a lot of our signage also.

I want to add from what i've gathered, during the cut process you should note whether (if say a shop window) the sign sits outside or inside. If it's sitting inside readable from outside then remember to cut in the negative, is that right?

Yes, absolutely I left that part out. LOL!

I tried earlier before this post with the application tape I have (which I use with rhinestones, not the hot fix), the decal stuck to the app tape, I assume tack was too strong?

We use the perfectear application tape in mid - to high tack and it works fine,,,so your saying that when you tried to apply it (squeegee it out) and removed the app tape it pulled the decal back up? if so yeah the tack was probably too high or you didn't clean the substrate, or didn't squeegee it hard enough, any one of these things can cause the graphic to lift when remove the app tape.

Another thing that happens is if the app tape has been applied for too long (months) sometimes it doesn't want to release....in this case some folks will spray the top of the app tape with a mild soap and water solution and let it sit a few minuets, then squeegee it out...normally that will get it to release.

I hope others post their knowledge and experiences, would also be great to hear from users that have recently started signage and the struggles they had...

Agreed....it's what the forum is all about...helping and sharing.

Hope this helps.

 

[vadan]

Yup tried all the things you mentioned, the app tape doesn't seem too sticky. The vinyl is a sample from a friend not even sure what type of vinyl it is and what its intended for lol just though I'd experiment. It's a very thin semi-transparent film, not very sticky, I'm sure the app tape I already have is a medium-tack (more sticky than actual film), so maybe it's the film, I'm gona order some different samples an fund what works for me, think trial and error us beat way to learn yourself.

 

[vadan]

Has anyone used this vinyl manufacturer? KPMF... MDP Supplies | Sign Vinyl - Application Tape - Sign Making Accessories

Which do you prefer?

Ritrama
Orocal
KPMF