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Well....perhaps I spoke a little too soon in my enthusiasm for this material.

I, too, had problems with the Royal Premium Plus; however, I thought maybe it was because I am so new to vinyl cutting (third cut). I am going to try some other vinyls...any suggestions?

I know I want the basketball vinyl...my one cousin is the Assistant Coach of the DUKE Women's Basketball Team, and my 6'7" little cousin, Imani, plays high school basketball and she just made the Olympic Team for the second time!! Yayyyy!!
 

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As expected, the problem is in the tight corners and is not consistent from design to design. One part of the design will cut ok but then I cut the same design a second time and now it doesn't do well in that same area.

Could you post the art so that I may try and cut it myself? That's strange that it would cut one time fine and then hang up on you...

Hopefully we can come up with some tips for you with this design.

Best Regards!
 

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John
These issue are what I explained in earlier comments to date I still have not had a reply to any questions asked ??? they obviously have not done or completed extensive testing prior to release of this material. I bought roll stock and I have had issues on cutting and problems in general with the Premium Plus product.Yes they need to look at the tack and the release of the carrier it is too soft this will allow shrinkage - poor cutting and variables over each color if this product is going to be the ultimate product as promoted there is a lot of reworking to be done.
It is a shame as the potential is there but poor or little testing??? prior to its release has let the product down and will put doubt in our minds with any other release or new products in the future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #664 ·
Hey Josh.....do you get better results with the 45 degree or 60 degree?

The reason I ask is 60 deg is supposed to be a better angle for small detail...so I was wondering if it might do better on those sharp corners which seem to be problematic.

Have you noticed a difference in your testing between the two?

John
I've had better luck with the 45 degree blade, as the angle seems better for cutting the stretchy material. I've also had good results with the 30 degree angle sold by Cleancut.
 

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Discussion Starter · #665 ·
Well....perhaps I spoke a little too soon in my enthusiasm for this material.

I purchased 8 sheets of Premium Plus for a rush job and overnighted it so I could work on this job over the weekend. Well.....I just wasted my first two sheets of Royal Blue!!!

I"ve been cutting ThermoFlex that I had in stock for several other colors and did have some trouble in certain areas of the design....never consistent though???? I was using a 60 deg blade with .400 offset at 120 gmf at 20 cm/sec doing those. But, I was able to fix the problem areas because of the higher tack.

Before I cut the Premium Plus, I reinstalled the 45 deg blade which I just bought about 2 weeks ago and have only cut Premium Plus with it on about a dozen designs. Also, I installed a brand new cutting strip and reset my offset back to .250. The force settings and speed were the same at 120 gmf and 20 cm / sec. I then reduced the speed down to 10 cm / sec thinking that might help but no such luck.

As expected, the problem is in the tight corners and is not consistent from design to design. One part of the design will cut ok but then I cut the same design a second time and now it doesn't do well in that same area.

I will take pictures and post later when I get my camera.

At this point....I don't think I can trust this material to use exclusively. I am going to have to have something in-house that I know I can cut and weed...even if it is more difficult to do so and more expensive....and which has the higher tack that allows me the opportunity to fix problems that I cannot do with this material.

Everything else about this material I love....BUT this problem has to be fixed for this material to become the ultimate material it was expected to be.

Fortunately...I was thinking...and had some Royal ThermoFlex as a back up that I can use which is why I choose this color to start with...thanks to this forum....:D

UPDATE: Ok...the Royal Blue ThermoFlex Plus turned out to be ThermoFlex Xtra but it will have to do. I had to bump up my force to 140 gmf to make the test cut work. But, I had ZERO detail loss from the cut / weed process!! The material is not as easy to work with as it likes to pull apart AND there is NO TACK on this carrier. But I didn't lose any detail at all.

So maybe the actual problem has nothing to do with the presence of tack but rather the behavior of the material during the cutting process? Maybe it doesn't like to be cut as well as some other materials? Maybe to much give???

The presence of tack may just be the "band aid" that would help put pieces back in place that shouldn't have pulled up in the first place...everything else being set correctly.

Just my random thoughts at the moment......:rolleyes:
Hi John

Really, really sorry for this problem.

One thing you might try -
The offset for a standard 60 degree blade from Stahls' should be .25 for cutting this material.
The offset for the 60 degree Durablade works well at .50.

We are exploring the possibility of enhancing the product with a slightly higher tack.
 

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Discussion Starter · #666 ·
Well....perhaps I spoke a little too soon in my enthusiasm for this material.

I, too, had problems with the Royal Premium Plus; however, I thought maybe it was because I am so new to vinyl cutting (third cut). I am going to try some other vinyls...any suggestions?

I know I want the basketball vinyl...my one cousin is the Assistant Coach of the DUKE Women's Basketball Team, and my 6'7" little cousin, Imani, plays high school basketball and she just made the Olympic Team for the second time!! Yayyyy!!
If you want to stick to the Stahls' line up then I would recommend Sportfilm Lite as a nice alternative to Premium Plus...still has a matter finish and good color selection but has a stickier backing. It is also similar from a price standpoint at $1 per yard at the various increments which is still 15-20% less than most other films in the market. We will gladly send free samples if you PM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #667 ·
John
These issue are what I explained in earlier comments to date I still have not had a reply to any questions asked ??? they obviously have not done or completed extensive testing prior to release of this material. I bought roll stock and I have had issues on cutting and problems in general with the Premium Plus product.Yes they need to look at the tack and the release of the carrier it is too soft this will allow shrinkage - poor cutting and variables over each color if this product is going to be the ultimate product as promoted there is a lot of reworking to be done.
It is a shame as the potential is there but poor or little testing??? prior to its release has let the product down and will put doubt in our minds with any other release or new products in the future.
Rod - my responses to your questions are in this post: http://www.t-shirtforums.com/cad-cut-materials-sold-cad-cut-direct/t153118-29.html#post934069

Let me know if I missed any and I will try to address.

Once again, we did take it through the paces of testing, market feedback is something that happens with any new product. All feedback is being heard and we will make adjustments if needed after weighing all feedback and options.

We are getting many reorders (some very large) from customers doing names/number, athletic tails, and moderate detailed designs. They love the weeding of larger pull areas as they say its faster than highly sticky materials. And they love the look and feel as most do.

This may not be a perfect fit for everyone, I acknowledge that. We have a lot of products within our range...many of our top sellers perform like this as it relates to detailed cutting such as Thermofilm or Econoprint which has no stickiness on the backing. If we make a change to the tack I will certainly announce it on here and offer samples to all who have given this product a shot.

My apologies to those who feel this product has fallen short for their uses...I hope you'll trust that we understand what you want and will do our best to provide a solution.

For now I would recommend Sportfilm Lite at a similar value with better detail and a higher tack.

FREE samples are on us, just send a PM.
 

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Hi John

Really, really sorry for this problem.

One thing you might try -
The offset for a standard 60 degree blade from Stahls' should be .25 for cutting this material.
The offset for the 60 degree Durablade works well at .50.

We are exploring the possibility of enhancing the product with a slightly higher tack.
Hey Josh....ok...I'm confused. I was thinking the offset was tied to the angle of the blade...but it sounds like it depends on the brand of blade as well?? I purchased Roland Blades from Signwarehouse and have been using .250 for the 45 deg and .400 for the 60 deg. I was having the problem with the 45 deg blade at .250 offset so I think that is the right combo??? Maybe I need to try the 30 deg??

I just read another post about the bearings in the holder possible sticking over time. I haven't tried "blowing" that out or adding any lube to it since I got the machine so maybe I'll try that next.

Like I said...I love everything else about the product and really want it to work.
 

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Could you post the art so that I may try and cut it myself? That's strange that it would cut one time fine and then hang up on you...

Hopefully we can come up with some tips for you with this design.

Best Regards!
Hey Nick...that woudl be great!

I tried uploading the EPS file but it is too large. I would be happy to e-mail it to you if you want. I'm posting the JPG so you can at least see what it looks like. I also have the .CST file as well.

John
 

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John
These issue are what I explained in earlier comments to date I still have not had a reply to any questions asked ???
I responded to your concerns some time ago and have not received a response:

"All new products even though fully tested can still have unforseen issues. We have not experienced this lifting after cutting/weeding you are speaking about, but are more then willing to test the roll(s) you have to determine what the issue may be. If you like please PM me with your account information and I will be happy to send you a call tag to get back this material (and samples) to test.

The powdery residue is just a production effect on some lots of material and does not effect application or performance at all.

Sportsfilm Lite is not a PVC product, and is a great alternative to people looking to use something other than Premium Plus.

Please let me know if you would like to send back samples/rolls as we are eager to solve the issues you are having.

Kind Regards,

Nick"

Please let us know if you would like to send anything in for testing.

Thank you,

Nick
 

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Ok...got a little bit of an update on my struggles.

Nick offered to cut both parts of my design that I posted earlier and said he had success. I was not able to get a picture of those cuts so I havent seen them yet.

Thanks a bunch Nick for being willing to do that for me. It was important as I was having some thoughts that perhaps my setup was not quite right.

He did suggest that the force I was having to cut at (even with a new blade, proper settings and blade extensioni and new cutting strip) seemed to indicate perhaps a chipped blade. Although this is only a couple week old blade, I changed it out with another I had in a unopened pack. Also, I had read on another post where somebody had suggested that somtimes the bearing inside the blade holder gets dirty and sticks which does not allow the blade to spin freely. So, I took it apart and blew it out with an air can and put a couple drops of WD40 inside and let it dry overnight.

Today I recut the Wildcats design I had trouble with yesterday and can say I noticed a big impovement. I didn't lose any detail but did struggle with the teeth on the design (which admittedly is probaly beyond the capability of this and most other material). I don't know if the improvements is from the new blade or cleaning the holder but didn't have time to go back and put the other blade back in yet. I will try to do so later.

I am now able produce a good test cut at 90 gmf instead of the 140 gmf previously.

I am cutting more designs as I type so I will update with any new information.
 

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This week I have made 300 t-shirts with Premium Plus, and with that I have to call myself a bit experienced with Premium plus. Mostly negative experiences, but still.

The white cuts very nice, and is pretty easy to weed. I weeded it just as fast as fashionfilm, and 90% went ok! Some lifted letters, that I could not replace on the backing.

The yellow roll cuts nice aswell and is about the same as white in weeding process, BUT! It's a pain to remove the backing after heated on garment. I have tried to peel the backing on Hot, warm, medium, cold and ICE cold, but the backing ALWAYS lift something of the design, and its a 50/50 if i can reheat to save the garment.

The black and light green cuts terrible, and weeds like crap. Ruined like 30% of the designs, and had to cut it again.

My Red roll cutts nicely, easy to weed and also easy to peel after heated.

The non sticky backing is a real time killer on multi-color designs. I took the time on each t-shirt and compared it with fashionfilm and Easy Weed and it took 40% more time for each t-shirt with Premium plus! I got 14/300 t-shirts ruined because of the backing/positioning problems. (I have ZERO ruined t-shirts with fashionfilm, the last 6 months!!) Also I counted 4 meters of wasted foil for these 300 shirts, because of lifted letters, and failed cuts just because the rolls are sticky and cant feed foil properbly. (Mostely black)

I gave Premium Plus a really good chance, and now its up to Stahls if they want to keep me as a customer.

Premium Plus is NOT a premium product, and the low price, will NOT save you money. Thats a fact.
 

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I did a shirt using the red and dark blue. No issues with cutting, weeding, lifting, pressing. Guess I just got lucky. I have used the white also with no issue. I have not used it in production mode. These were one ofs/offs shirts. Been busy with rhinestones.
 

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I've gone through over 100 yards of Premium Plus with very little problems. True it may not be good for really small letters or numbers, but letters as small as 1/4 inch have been cut and weeded with very little problems. The cost and the feel far out way any problems I have had. I plan on using Premium Plus for now, til something better comes along. It did take a few tries to get the right force and blade depth, but now it's cutting ( and weeding ) like a charm. Roland GX24 with 45 Degree blade @ 80grams of force.

Ted
 

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The white cuts very nice, and is pretty easy to weed. I weeded it just as fast as fashionfilm, and 90% went ok! Some lifted letters, that I could not replace on the backing.
A good tip I have heard is to use a glue stick to place pieces back on. I have not had a chance to test this yet, however the customer I spoke to swears by it. Test first if you are going to try it of course.

The yellow roll cuts nice aswell and is about the same as white in weeding process, BUT! It's a pain to remove the backing after heated on garment. I have tried to peel the backing on Hot, warm, medium, cold and ICE cold, but the backing ALWAYS lift something of the design, and its a 50/50 if i can reheat to save the garment.

The black and light green cuts terrible, and weeds like crap. Ruined like 30% of the designs, and had to cut it again
We have not experienced this! Would you be willing to send in some material for us to look at? Meanwhile I am happy to send you out a new yard sample to test.

My Red roll cutts nicely, easy to weed and also easy to peel after heated.
Great!

The non sticky backing is a real time killer on multi-color designs. I took the time on each t-shirt and compared it with fashionfilm and Easy Weed and it took 40% more time for each t-shirt with Premium plus! I got 14/300 t-shirts ruined because of the backing/positioning problems. (I have ZERO ruined t-shirts with fashionfilm, the last 6 months!!) Also I counted 4 meters of wasted foil for these 300 shirts, because of lifted letters, and failed cuts just because the rolls are sticky and cant feed foil properbly. (Mostely black)
For the multicolor designs you could use our Lite Tack Spray or Thermo Tape to hold the layers down.

I gave Premium Plus a really good chance, and now its up to Stahls if they want to keep me as a customer.
We do want to keep you as a customer and have you happy. I apologize for the difficulties you are having with the PP. I know this doesn't help, but we have not experienced this here. I will speak with our testing department regarding this. Also, what type of garments are you applying to so that we may mimic your application process?

Additionally have you tried our Sport Film Lite? It is similar to PP, except it is a little thicker, doesn't stretch as much and has a tacky backing.

Please feel free to PM me regarding account information if you would like us to send you a call tag to pick up samples to test.

Thank you,

Nick
 

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Nick not to bust balls but do you really think that a product that has been touted as the ULTIMATE vinyl product to end all vinyl products needs to have a glue stick on stand by ?

Most of us have liked the product but have issues with the ability of the products tackiness. Other than the cost of current inventory what is involved of making the backing a tad tackier to hold get better hold on small lettering and detail. ? Does adding more tack effect the hand ? Cut ability ?

Thanks
Mark
 

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Nick not to bust balls but do you really think that a product that has been touted as the ULTIMATE vinyl product to end all vinyl products needs to have a glue stick on stand by ?

Most of us have liked the product but have issues with the ability of the products tackiness. Other than the cost of current inventory what is involved of making the backing a tad tackier to hold get better hold on small lettering and detail. ? Does adding more tack effect the hand ? Cut ability ?

Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,

The glue stick was only a helpful idea brought on by one of our customers, not something we plan on putting in our tech sheets! :D

99% of the time I do not have an issue with pieces coming off when weeding, however I notice that quite a few people do, so I was passing along a helpful tip.

We are absolutely looking into adding more tack to the material.

Have a nice weekend,

Nick
 

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I got to see the pictures that Nick sent me of the Wildcats design he cut and weeded that I was having trouble with. I was amazed that even the very...very small teeth were able to be weeded and were still stuck down (I'm assuming not with a glue stick?? :D)

I'm going to give it another try using about 10 gmf more force and see if I can get closer to his results.

Using up alot of material tweaking this....would be nice to get some more samples??? :rolleyes: Just sayin'...lol

UPDATE: I tried cutting and weeding but didn't get the same results at the higher force. However, I did notice a big difference in performance between the Navy and the Neon Pink. The Neon Pink weeded great with no loss of detail vs. the exact same design and settings on the Navy. Also, noticed that the effort required to pull the material away from the carrier sheet is quite a bit higher for the Neon Pink than the Navy which seems to indiate that the adhesion between the material and the carrier is higher on the Neon Pink making it easier to weed and hold the detail. Tackiness on both carriers doesn't feel any different though.

I'm thinking that not only does the higher adhesion keep the smaller detail in place during weeding but also keeps the material from flexing during the cutting process at the sharp corners. If the material is not flexing..then it probably cuts cleaner.

Oh..by the way...Neon Pink is the color that Nick used when he cut and weeded the design successfully. I've asked him to cut the same design with Navy to see if there is any difference in result.

Anybody else notice anything similar??

I really appreciate Nicks help and support on this.....
 
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