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So Finally I got my 782.

It has only been 3 days since the machine has been up and running and I must say I'm equally happy and disappointed and partially indifferent.
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1. Happy why?

2 plattens allows for fast set up of garments and I'm working 2ice as fast for light colored garments, and the possibility of adding bigger platens will be big plus in the near future.

Bigger cheaper cartridges make me happier when printing, although not only for the 782 this is my first experience with the new format.

There is one less thing to buy with the introduction of waste bottles, gone are the waste pads.

Loading times from card: WAY FASTER!!!!!

It does darks and the feel after wash is as nice or nicer than some of the kornits I was so impressed with. ( I got My self a viper pretreater and the pressure on my press is sturdy so that helps). Elasticity is awesome after being used to vinyl.
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2. Disappointed why?

Color rendition continues to be what brother has accustomed us to, borderline minimum, with the addition that on top of white ink it shows twice as much.

Banding due to not perfectly synchronized firing nozzles can be really bad on top of the white, without pretreatment, the ink soaks in the garment and spreads softening banding a bit, on top of the white after the gelling with the pretreatment there is no suck condition, so where the ink drops it stays. In My case I have been battling with a blue head for almost 4 days, and I think I'm almost there.

White ink maintenance. I must say I have no clue about any other machine that does darks, but the maintenance for this machine I find ridiculous. Every day the lines must be purged of ink ( or retrieved as they say), this process consumes approximately 35cc of white ink, that is one cartridge of white ink a month... If you are doing the numbers right now in your head, you are probbly getting to the same conclusion as I am. on top of that you have to add probably another 35cc+ every week for head cleaning plus the fluid that uses about 50-75 ml per head.

Of course you can find ways of minimizing this, like cleaning after retrieving etc... but you might end up saving 35 cc overall any given week.

Registration. WOW. mmm I'm getting there but I swear I thought this things where out of the box registered ( color to white), although I had been told about the registration procedure I did not think I would have to be so precise to get fair registration, for now I'm still not there yet, and choke is my best friend.
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3.Indifferent

You can not load 2 designs from card or operate on side of the machine if the other is busy, so not really a 2in1, more like 1like2.

White ink usage ( on the shirt) is not that bad, anything from 1.80cc to 4cc on a regular design, although, and hold your socks, the max ink lay that you can achieve is 15cc of white ink plus another 6 for color ( I know that some will bash me for this, saying that this is an impossible scenario, but if it is doable it will be asked for, since with my 541 I had 2 times orders of 4,5 cc almost 90% coverage with red)

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I must point out that some of my surprises now are due to the fact that my willingness/ fanboyism clouded my skepticism, and my thorough analysis of this machine, and did not have any to demo close by, so under the assumption of a 541 plus white I jumped in.

All an all is only my first week with this machine so take my criticism/ compliments with a pinch of caution. But one thing is for certain, this is no 541, not in a million years, where the 541 was plug and play this is more like, you'll be a brother systems integrator in about a year after owning this machine. Am I sorry I bought it? the first day my answer would have been yes, now it looks more like, what the heck the clients are fine with the price and they'll end up paying for it.

more to come
 

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I must point out that some of my surprises now are due to the fact that my willingness/ fanboyism clouded my skepticism, and my thorough analysis of this machine, and did not have any to demo close by, so under the assumption of a 541 plus white I jumped in.

All an all is only my first week with this machine so take my criticism/ compliments with a pinch of caution. But one thing is for certain, this is no 541, not in a million years, where the 541 was plug and play this is more like, you'll be a brother systems integrator in about a year after owning this machine. Am I sorry I bought it? the first day my answer would have been yes, now it looks more like, what the heck the clients are fine with the price and they'll end up paying for it.

more to come
Thanks so much for the honest and open review of your experience, thus far!! You know that people like me would love to hear your ongoing stories, struggles and successes. I'm happy to see others addressing some of these concerns, and not pretending like the Brother printers don't suffer any of the problems that "other" brands do.

Well said about what caused you to minimize potential issues, going into it - "fanboyism" seems to cloud many people's judgement, in this industry. haha I am no exception. :rolleyes:

Also, your point about the most "unlikely" scenarios is spot on..... "If you can do it, they will ask for it!" This was one of my concerns with my 541; sure it could print up to 14 x 16, but I was terrified every day that a customer would walk in with a large "poster" style print (even on whites the cost was upwards of several dollars per print, on some of those) and want to take advantage of our max print size! As a business owner, I want to be able to shout our capabilities from the rooftops, not be afraid that a customer might actually want to take advantage of them for fear of crippling costs. Especially where I live in southern Cali, where "In-N-Out" style "poster" prints are really popular amongst many food joints, lemon festivals and specialty shows..... Big prints with large amounts of coverage - not a Brother's best friend.
 

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Alot of the stuff your disappointed with is unneccesary. You haven't gotten up and runnin yet to fairly asses the unit. As for for losing 35cc due to loading and reloading daily is not quite true. It is recommended to but obligatory. You'll find that the more you print you wont have to white retrieve and reload. The only time you have to retrieve and reload is when the white ink sits in the tube 3 days without moving. I would never recommend loading from a card any way cause the control issue is reduced. I don't know about you but we get our machine to pop up ready to print within 3-6 seconds. You just need some experience and you'll see its meant to pound lol. As for white ink cost, well, be patient and you might be surprised.
 

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Alot of the stuff your disappointed with is unneccesary. You haven't gotten up and runnin yet to fairly asses the unit. As for for losing 35cc due to loading and reloading daily is not quite true. It is recommended to but obligatory. You'll find that the more you print you wont have to white retrieve and reload. The only time you have to retrieve and reload is when the white ink sits in the tube 3 days without moving. I would never recommend loading from a card any way cause the control issue is reduced. I don't know about you but we get our machine to pop up ready to print within 3-6 seconds. You just need some experience and you'll see its meant to pound lol. As for white ink cost, well, be patient and you might be surprised.
Is banding normal on a brand new Brother? Seems strange for printer of that expense & reputation..
 

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Actually YES. All printers print in bands. As for him ask him what colors bands and I bet it would be the Cyans. This is something I notice on many DTG's not just brothers. Now THAT is a pain but as for anything else I can't relate cause are variables for printing work great!. Ask him what are his variables for printing and let see AS a brother owner how I can help him get the best results in a cost effective manner, not discredit ANY DTG machine regardless of what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Alot of the stuff your disappointed with is unneccesary. You haven't gotten up and runnin yet to fairly asses the unit. As for for losing 35cc due to loading and reloading daily is not quite true. It is recommended to but obligatory. You'll find that the more you print you wont have to white retrieve and reload. The only time you have to retrieve and reload is when the white ink sits in the tube 3 days without moving. I would never recommend loading from a card any way cause the control issue is reduced. I don't know about you but we get our machine to pop up ready to print within 3-6 seconds. You just need some experience and you'll see its meant to pound lol. As for white ink cost, well, be patient and you might be surprised.
As said I'll post more when I get the chance to evaluate this machine more in depth, but to quickly address your point since I've asked you some questions personally and you have taken the time to answer, and I have thanked you personally and now do so publicly, you have not addressed any issues with your machine, and now that I own one, I can.

Maintenance is supposed to be done daily before printing as the manual says, not every third day. Another whole different story is if we use tape to squeeze cartridges or favor longer runs without maintenance to save on ink, but that opens a can of worms, because if a faulty head ends up happening it will be easy to blame on not doing proper maintenance. My 35cc number comes from actually measuring the amount of ink wasted ( 2 different measurements in 2 different days gave me 28 cc and 33cc, + 4 cc in the first head clean after reloading the ink, just place a measuring vase at the end of the line and do your retrieving).That is spread among 4 cartridges so it's about 7/8 cc per head.Cost of 1 head = cost of 3/4 cartridges = 3/4 months cleaning cycles, so I see that it might be worth it no to do it every day.

Banding, well it might be normal for you but I sure find it lazy to market machines with this mark up and still have issues that some cheaper machines might not have. My theory is banding occurs due to the speed in printing, hence more passes per inch, or better programing of nozzle firing, might reduce this issue, something you clearly understand after doing 6 or 7 nozzle alignments, if instead of doing one line with 2 nozzles 4 where required banding would be less of an issue. And indeed Cyan is the trouble here and I bet the difference in viscosity between the four different colors account for the issue, red has more water and takes longer to dry, yellow is very liquid but has less pigment, blue is thicker and might account for the issue, I have yet to print black on top of white.

As said before I'm not worried about white ink cost, why? as in everything if I did get 100% coverage 100% of the time I would be out of business, but more often than not coverage falls under 20%. For example, 3 prints I did yesterday BW pictures, loved the outcome loved the consumption, cheaper than doing color with the 541, but when you add color on top of white, that means white has to be perfect for the color to lay evenly and that white will be high in consumption for what most 541 Brother users are used to.

I'll stop here, and post pictures and more details next week, but on a final note to the owners of this machines, being critic with your product is not demeriting the qualities that it has is just acknowledging that some times even a Ferrari cannot fly doesn't matter what you have heard or ended up imagining, and yes this machine for some business will be a money maker, even more than the 541, but just because you want to do darks and love your brother,it might induce you in to thinking that this machine is it, and I found out that ... well this machine needs a lot more TLC in one week, than the old brother ever did.

Yesterday I was happier with it than Friday, and probably not as happy as I'll be Tuesday when I get back to work, so yes I'm liking my purchase every day more, but I think this forum is the prefect place to rant and to praise, and people tend to understand balanced opinions better than vainglorious reviews.

my best to all of you.
 

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May be completely dumb question but, the wasted ink, ain't it left in the line due to not being suffiecent enough to be sucked back in cart, meaning it is not wasted?
or anything left in line than is routed to waste bottle?

If you were to use machine all day WDP- does this mean ink retrieval aint as important to do?

I never go by what manuf. says, ever since using big Brother cart. I change cleaning station once and not twice and have had zero issues so far. Perfect test prints with morning clean usually : )

Did you keep your 541 still or got rid of it?
 

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Actually YES. All printers print in bands. As for him ask him what colors bands and I bet it would be the Cyans. This is something I notice on many DTG's not just brothers. Now THAT is a pain but as for anything else I can't relate cause are variables for printing work great!. Ask him what are his variables for printing and let see AS a brother owner how I can help him get the best results in a cost effective manner, not discredit ANY DTG machine regardless of what it is.
Obviously all DTG printers print in bands. But when someone describes a banding issue, I think of lines of missing ink, no?

I currently contract out to a guy with an HM1-C & his printer bands primarily on magenta. (He's tried everything, SWF East wont help, and he refuses to buy a new print head. A whole 'nother story)

As for his cost of doing charges/cleanings, the OP is following the maintenance procedures recommended by the manufacturer. Obviously someone who skips a couple days of maintenance is going to save ink cost, but will there be ramifications in the long run?

I appreciate these types of objective observations. I don't really understand the "fanboyism" going on with these printers. There isn't one printer out there that is perfect, don't make it sound like your doesn't have any cons..

I am not really brand loyal. The way I look at it, I want something that provides the best quality prints, from a cost effective machine, regardless of who makes it. Of course maintenance, ink cost, warranty/support make up just a few of the decision factors.

Having said that, my Veloci Jet is being shipped soon, and after some usage I will write about it's pro's & con's, so others that might be in the market will have more real world information to work with.
 

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Chobay, Theres no fanboyism here. I go by the facts from my experience. And in my opinion the Brpther was a better machine so we bought one, period. I can name countless reason why the epson machines are inferior and where the brother 782 fails but thats not why I'm here. I just want to help the gentleman.

Maybe I will keep my insight for help to myself next time.
 

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Wow, nice review. Finally an objective, real world experience shared about the 782...
Agreed! nice to hear an objective view point from a owner of what some consider the "Holy Grail" of DTG printers, please keep us informed with your experiences/observations it's very much appreciated.
 

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Loloxa, regarding your Cyan issue, on Monday contact the Brother support line and they'll help you achieve a great Cyan print; i suggest Brother instead of your Distributor because you'll get the quickest answer. As far as registration, what size is the image the artwork is shift? Choke should stay at factory 2 and print perfect prints time and time again; that is if the artwork is prepared according to how your Tech showed you. Lastly, do you have your computer connected directly to the printer or are you using the Compact flash due to factory setting?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
As far as registration, what size is the image the artwork is shift? Choke should stay at factory 2 and print perfect prints time and time again; that is if the artwork is prepared according to how your Tech showed you. Lastly, do you have your computer connected directly to the printer or are you using the Compact flash due to factory setting?
Thank you for the advice, something I like about brother printers is that they are fairly simple, so after setting up the firing of the nozzles the best I could banding did go away substantially,where I try to achieve a worn out look it is better, full filled areas are still noticeable, and yes again, I'm picky, so some would not consider this a problem, I'll try to post pictures tomorrow or later today.

The design that has problems with registration is a full design with small lines to test the registration of the machine, because I do not want to find the problem on clients design I'd rather see it in my tests, talking to the brother tech he has mentioned textile shift when depositing ink as a factor so I'll look in to that.

why card an not a computer?, if you saw my store you'd understand, the machine is a stand alone with no dedicated computer, since I have a computer running in the store front where I can do my designs and serve the costumers I did not want to set up a second computer just for the printer, eventually I will find a print server solution since it'll come in handy to load secondary designs while waiting, I just pointed it out because nowhere in the literature says that loading a design while printing is just restricted to the computer and the card cannot achieve this, I'm not mad or upset about it just thought I'll let the forum know in case their workflow depends on it, like mine does.

Another thing that I'm seeing in this forum and I thought I'll point out. This is not a war, we, the DTG community is fairly small, we might find our niche spot too cozy to share information but is not my case, and neither it's my will to attack other manufacturers, I bought this machine because I trust brother, "I" being the factor, some of you look upon my insight and criticism as a reason to justify bashing brother( why?), a view I do not share or understand, I have not seen many brother users bash other machines, some that are very vocal do, but the majority silently print away and try to share. You as a potential buyer have the obligation to check all the info at your disposal, and if you do not decide to buy machine X and buy Y there will be a good reason for you, I did not drop 50K just to see if I like this machine, I did my research, I knew it was going to be hard, I did not expect to be this hard but that is my problem, and probably this warning might help future buyers look in to it closer than I did, and ask more pertinent questions when the salesman nocks, but it is a nice machine to own, and personally when you have it in front of you, you feel like you have very serious, well supported machine in your workshop. Is it the one to rule them all? that only happens in the movies.

Next post will have more pictures and less words.
 

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loloxa, you may want to try this for a solution for your USB Connection. You can purchase up to 5 and add it with the Brother Provided USB cable to get 95 feet of USB. Belkin 16' USB Active Extension Cable. also, if your still not happy with the Cyan. send me a PM and ill help you out.
 

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... some of you look upon my insight and criticism as a reason to justify bashing brother( why?), a view I do not share or understand, I have not seen many brother users bash other machines, some that are very vocal do, but the majority silently print away and try to share...
Hm I re-read the entire thread and I don't see ANY bashing in this thread, anywhere? I DID see someone, yet again, make the "Epson printers are inferior to Brother" comment (from a Brother owner), which is the closest thing in this thread to a bash.

For some of us, however, it is very refreshing to see a Brother owner talking openly about the issues that DO exist with these machines, no matter how hard people try to down play them, and we applaud the honest evaluation. By all means, if the machine works great for you, tell us all about it! But when you validate concerns that some of us have, after people have been swearing up and down that these issues don't exist, it is a huge victory for potential buyers, and you are gonna get some general public appreciation. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Hm I re-read the entire thread and I don't see ANY bashing in this thread, anywhere? I DID see someone, yet again, make the "Epson printers are inferior to Brother" comment (from a Brother owner), which is the closest thing in this thread to a bash.
I probably have my cyniscsm radar overly tuned so when I read people reffering to "holy grails" and "expense and reputation", I get that feeling, sorry if I'm overly suspicious, feels like I'm giving birth so I'm all hormonal about this.

We all know that this machine is probably the most expensive ( ink plus machine) and probably the least configurable , also it has the fastest drying ink on the market, so no secrets here, you will only consider this machine if a) you can afford it b) you don't mind leaving the colors up to a driver c) you don't want to cure for 180 seconds hence either own fewer presses or produce faster( for now let's see where the mod2 goes), the rest is pretty much supperficial, I bet the machine, you can produce the same prints or better with your machine.

With registration I'm getting there, one thing that I'm seeing and you justin can probably understand after having owned the kornit, clamping the shirt to the platten avoids the chance of garment shifting, I've seen that this has been an issue after printing consecutively, one registers the other does not, minimaly but still...
 

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After dealing with that issue in one form or another over the past few years, we have gotten into the habit of using a light tack adhesive on our platens, for certain runs. We use to "roll on" stuff, to avoid airborne particulates, and we apply the adhesive while the platen is away from the machine.

Bottom line, it helps keep the shirts in place!!!! In some ways, I think it works even better than the Kornit "hoop & clamp" system, and it can be done on almost any machine.
 
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