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Neoflex or Brothers Graffitee

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lkt1954
We have just returned from NBM in Dallas and after a 1 1/2 of looking and researching have narrowed our dtg list down to 2- Neoflex and Brothers Graffitee. As we all know if you talk to the company reps and read all the literature every dtg printer is the best out there. Here is what I observed (please keep in mind I am still learning on dtg and this process-so if I make a dumb comment or observation-please excuse)


Neoflex:
  • great prints- we had one of our designs printed and it looks great. While ours was printing another lady had a picture of a cross that their screen printer could not get right printed and with the Neoflex- all I can say is WOW!! All samples are currently being washed.
  • long print area -like the idea of printing up to 3 shirts at one time.
  • Software- this get blurry as they click and click faster than my brain can process-but I do like the resize feature,the ability to change shirt colors and the rip adjust what ink is used.
  • Maintenance- according to the rep this is relative easy and not very time consuming- that remains to be seen-what is easy for a highly trained rep might not be for an end user.
  • Printing the white first and the printing the other colors next seems to be a great idea-that way the white has some time to dry before any other ink is laid down-which should equal more vibrant colors.
Brother's Graffitee
  • great prints also, good crisp colors on our design. It prints all the colors in one pass- their claim here is faster production. Their print had a heavier hand than the Neoflex (their answer was it was the pre-treatment- which was done with a Lawson pretreat machine).
  • print area is restricted to one platen and the size of that platen. Again their claim they can print 3 shirts faster this way than Neoflex can print 3 at one setting.
  • Software- again they click-click-click faster than my brain can process what is being done-so I cannot comment very well on either software.
  • Maintenance- is suppose to be simple and easy 5 minutes a day is all it takes. Also since their ink is not DuPont there are less issues with the white clogging up the nozzles (if I understood correctly).
  • Ink cost per print- on our design they used 3.5 cc's of white and like 1 cc's of cmyk and their cost was $ 2.51 not including pretreatment. Did not get a ink usage and cost from Neoflex (they were swamped).
Now I would like some input from those of you'll who have used either of these printers on a daily basis. Here are some of my concerns:

  • day in and day out print quality and durability of the print.
  • ease of software use- how difficult is it to learn.
  • maintenance- which is easier to maintain.
  • production time- I realize the design plays into this- but it seems to me that 3 printing at once has to be more production friendly than one at a time.
  • Neoflex says their printer need 40% or better humidity- Brother's says humidity level is not an issue. ??????
  • Ink cost- from what I have read no company give the consumer very accurate ink cost. Are their estimates fairly accurate or is their way more to the cost per print than meets the eye?
  • Support & training- on Neoflex you go to Philly for training (just hope I see NO Eagles-lol) and Brothers comes to you site.
  • Is there an issue with getting epson print heads in the future? I had a couple of other show attendees tell me epson has quit making the print head for the 4880. In reading other post here I think the issue is whom epson chooses to sell to not the availability of the parts. Am I correct here?
One last though- Neoflex did not pretreat any shirts during the show due to the nature of the chemicals, where as Brothers did. What differences are there between the inks & pretreatment chemicals? With either machine we plan on getting a pretreatment machine.

Any advise/input here will be greatly appreciated, as a $ 20K purchase is not one to take lightly.


Thanks in advance.

Larry
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lkt1954
Ok- a lot of views and no comments-????? If there is not much out there yet on the Graffitee printer how about the 782 then?

Just finished washing and drying all the shirts we had printed and neoflex and belquette came out very nice with the hand softening up. The graffitee print-well less than desirable-not sure what happened but in fairness to brothers I am going to ask them to send me another sample. I will try and post pictures of the neoflex & belquette, to be fair I will not post the brothers just yet.

Peter, I know you were at NBM and we talked to both John and you. If possible can you address the concerns I have above? MY trigger finger is very itchy........if you know what I mean..

Thanks
Larry
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lkt1954 said:
Ok- a lot of views and no comments-????? If there is not much out there yet on the Graffitee printer how about the 782 then?

Just finished washing and drying all the shirts we had printed and neoflex and belquette came out very nice with the hand softening up. The graffitee print-well less than desirable-not sure what happened but in fairness to brothers I am going to ask them to send me another sample. I will try and post pictures of the neoflex & belquette, to be fair I will not post the brothers just yet.

Peter, I know you were at NBM and we talked to both John and you. If possible can you address the concerns I have above? MY trigger finger is very itchy........if you know what I mean..

Thanks
Larry
Click to expand...
I thought you want to hear end users opinion not mine. I of cause answer to you all.
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B
Larry,

I see you mentioned that you had a BelQuette printed sample done for you at the show.
First, thank you for stopping by to kick the tires on the mod1, I hope your visit was informative and that we left you with less questions then answers.
I know that the shows can be overwhelming and its hard to really cover all the in depth inner workings of various machines.
The decision to pull the trigger on a +-20k machine should be well thought out and not an impulse decision.
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lkt1954
Peter

Yes I do want to hear from end users, but I am still trying to process all we saw. I would like your input to make sure I have all my facts correct on each machine form those who make and sell it and the ones I have to deal with when problems arise.

Mark

Thanks for the reply. The guys at the booth were very helpful and answered all our questions. You are right this decision can be overwhelming and needs much consideration.

Larry
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Belquette said:
Larry,
First, thank you for stopping by to kick the tires on the mod1,
Click to expand...
LMAO,
Kick the tire! Larry the tire kicker? I am sure he did not kick it. :D but even though he did that is not nice thing to say it in TSF. I understand you seems and sound upset but all buyers have right to check every single machines. This is why we go to shows. If not why you came? We cannot sell to every buyers. Aren't you still not know this? You want all huh?
I am glad to see you keep posting in TSF. Cannot leave as you said? I understand. You should not post "i will never post here again". Welcome back.:D
Ps: read title your name is not here. Despert. Sad and pity.
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JohnL
Hello Larry,

It was a pleasure speaking with you and your wife. If you have any questions feel free to contact me any time. When purchasing a system there should be no areas that are blurry.

Although we were swamped at the show we can definitely set aside some time to run a quick demo of the software with you so there is no grey area. You can even watch the shirt print if you would like.
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lkt1954 said:
Now I would like some input from those of you'll who have used either of these printers on a daily basis. Here are some of my concerns:

I'm a NeoFlex owner

  • day in and day out print quality and durability of the print.
All I can say is, we've had no complaints.
  • ease of software use- how difficult is it to learn.
The software, NeoRip Pro is very easy to use. The colour profiles produce fantastic vibrant images without any manual adjustment required. However, NeoRip Pro is a very powerful RIP designed for use with the NeoFlex, if you want to 'tinker', just lift the lid to reveal all the settings.

I was asked to print the image below. The file was emailed to me, loaded into NeoRip Pro, resized and printed - absolutely nothing else to do.

  • maintenance- which is easier to maintain.
Maintenance really is simple :) I've posted many video on Youtube (search datasafeuk)
  • production time- I realize the design plays into this- but it seems to me that 3 printing at once has to be more production friendly than one at a time.
As there's no necessity to alter the image prior to loading into the RIP all you need to do is load upto 3 shirts and press the print button - job done.



AA have produced many profiles one being Hi-Production. Using this profile nearly halves the print time. Search on this forum for the flaming guitar, there are 2 videos - 1 I shot of a shirt being printed with the Hi-Res profile and another shot by AA using the Hi-Production profile, you'd be hard pushed to notice any difference in quality.
  • Neoflex says their printer need 40% or better humidity- Brother's says humidity level is not an issue. ??????
I can't comment on this - our humidity rarely falls below 80% :)
  • Ink cost- from what I have read no company give the consumer very accurate ink cost. Are their estimates fairly accurate or is their way more to the cost per print than meets the eye?
NeoRip Pro allows you to enter the cost of inks and pre-treat. After you RIP an image, you can view the print cost.
  • Support & training- on Neoflex you go to Philly for training (just hope I see NO Eagles-lol) and Brothers comes to you site.
AA's support is amazing.
  • Is there an issue with getting epson print heads in the future? I had a couple of other show attendees tell me epson has quit making the print head for the 4880. In reading other post here I think the issue is whom epson chooses to sell to not the availability of the parts. Am I correct here?
I can't comment.

One last though- Neoflex did not pretreat any shirts during the show due to the nature of the chemicals, where as Brothers did. What differences are there between the inks & pretreatment chemicals? With either machine we plan on getting a pretreatment machine.

I have been at shows where AA pre-treated using the Viper pre-treat machine. Of course this takes staff away from customers so it's always more convenient to pre-treat the shirts beforehand.

Any advise/input here will be greatly appreciated, as a $ 20K purchase is not one to take lightly.

I live over 5000 miles from AA and had absolutely no prior knowledge of DTG printing, yet, nearly 3 years into ownership, there's no other DTG printer I wished I'd owned. AA's support has been immediate when required and first class.

In the UK I had the option of purchasing a DTG printer from any of the major players with local support BUT, my months of intensive research led me to the NeoFlex and I don't regret it one little bit.

I've seen DTG printers that print the white ink and colour in one pass but there is a trade off. In my opinion the colours are not as vibrant being more suited to pastel colours.


Thanks in advance.

Larry
Click to expand...

Please read my comments (in RED) above. I am simply expressing my own opinion based on nearly 3 years of ownership.
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23spiderman
The NeoFlex printer, the NeoRIP Pro, the support from AA all add up to a great product. I've always thought that DuPont inks are brighter than the Brother inks. I prefer the white first then color process as the white has time to gel into the pretreat. From what I understand, the 48XX print heads are being produced once again, and there's no shortage.
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VTG
Larry, I did a tremendous amount of research on DTG printers, and like you, I wanted to be sure that I was spending my money wisely.

IMO, the NeoFlex printer is the better choice. As you know, it is capable of producing excellent quality prints. In fact, I have yet to find another DTG printer that matches the quality you get from a NeoFlex. The NeoRIP software is outstanding and their customer support is great.

I saw the new Graffitee printer at the ISS show in Atlantic City. I watched and listened closely as the reps printed samples for on-lookers. While I have nothing bad to say about the machine, I just wasn't that impressed with the print quality. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't as good as what I've seen from the NeoFlex.

Good luck with your decision ... I made mine already ... NeoFlex!
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Cooldays5678
I'm also looking for my first DTG Printer and have received several samples and the DuPont ink is brighter than the Brother ink. Also seem to be cost effective.
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baddjun1
Based on viewing experience at trade shows and my samples provided, I prefer the Neoflex to the Brother brands. (Just my opinion)
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lkt1954 said:
Ok- a lot of views and no comments-????? If there is not much out there yet on the Graffitee printer how about the 782 then?

Just finished washing and drying all the shirts we had printed and neoflex and belquette came out very nice with the hand softening up. The graffitee print-well less than desirable-not sure what happened but in fairness to brothers I am going to ask them to send me another sample. I will try and post pictures of the neoflex & belquette, to be fair I will not post the brothers just yet.

Did you ever get another sample tee from Brother ?
How was it ?

Up here in Canada, we have requested a sample off website of every printer, and have not received one from anybody yet, except off a AnajetM5.
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Steve,
I can tell why you are successful business person. Your research is to the limit. Lol. This is why I want to earn your business. It is not for one more NeoFlex sell. Old man is not crazy about money.:)
If you really want to be fair to all. You should send your own design/art work or simply photo of smart phone to all and ask your samples not our stock design which all Dtg sellers touch up to made look good.
This is real fair and sure shot. :)
Cheers! Beers are on me always.
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S
lol.. thanks peter, yes I research all aspects of my business to the max.. and have been very fortunate to have all good equipment, all good staff, all good business plan.. we are growing so fast, my Mother stopeed in said this small business I started was getting out of control.

You can make a very good dollar in the team business. retail is tough.
I also believe DTG printing will propell my 2200 sq ft russell pro store into another level.

I am really excited to bring DTG into our store/shop and see the people flock to us.

I am struggling with the operational aspect to the machine.
reliability.
learning cuve.
print durability (not as much).
print quality.
and mostly.. production cost! (we pay staff by hour).

DTG very cool, very exciting, I Love cool Tee shirts (ignite your imgination is super cool).
but.. back to earth I have to make a ROI.
So.. time is money, production speed has to be in the range.
Brother is interesting in the short cure time of 35 seconds.
BUT.. I planned on getting something like Sahara6 or digi dri-box so should I be concerned with cure time? (perhaps not).

I think anyone doing some homework will concense Neoflex with 48XX+ Neo rip produce sharpest image.
that is one Big thing to consider.
Also Neo Company make good offers from time to time to Neo members on extra equipment to get them going.. (pretreat maybe Sahara6 package deals).. all very tempting,, Very, very tempting to buy quick.

I wish I can go see one in action, so far away..

Oh.. and Peter, I don't think you are pushing neoflex to make one mre sale, I think you believe in your product and want EVERYone out here to be printing with, as the Industry standard.

As I want EVERYone with 50 mile radius to wear nothing but apparel but russell pro.
I am indeed getting there.. as are you.
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23spiderman
then what are you waiting for? you already said that the NeoFlex + NeoRIP produces the sharpest image, and THAT is what will keep people coming back to YOU. quality over quantity, in this market, wins every time.

it's been talked about in other threads about the DuPont inks with Epsons vs. the Brother, and the DuPont inks are brighter and more vivid. Brother, as a company, is very good and dependable, and the 541 (cmyk only) printer is a great one, but you want to print white ink. your ROI is no sweat with cmyk prints; it's the white ink prints that you'll need to work on, but the NeoFlex handles this wonderfully!

the longer you wait, the longer it will take to get a NeoFlex in your shop. Peter, AA, and the TIGERS are the best! if you already know that you want DTG in your shop, then the NeoFlex is the printer you want.
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23spiderman said:
then what are you waiting for? you already said that the NeoFlex + NeoRIP produces the sharpest image, and THAT is what will keep people coming back to YOU. quality over quantity, in this market, wins every time.

it's been talked about in other threads about the DuPont inks with Epsons vs. the Brother, and the DuPont inks are brighter and more vivid. Brother, as a company, is very good and dependable, and the 541 (cmyk only) printer is a great one, but you want to print white ink. your ROI is no sweat with cmyk prints; it's the white ink prints that you'll need to work on, but the NeoFlex handles this wonderfully!

the longer you wait, the longer it will take to get a NeoFlex in your shop. Peter, AA, and the TIGERS are the best! if you already know that you want DTG in your shop, then the NeoFlex is the printer you want.
Click to expand...

you already said that the NeoFlex + NeoRIP produces the sharpest image, and THAT is what will keep people coming back to YOU.
Yep, AGREED..(I think most do)..

Brother, as a company, is very good and dependable, .. Ooops.. ya had to throw that in, now that makes me ask.
Brother good dependable , as in little more dependable with less pampering?
Maybe a little simpler with no rip to contend with.
perhaps not ?
I need to look at the rip, perhaps that is just perfect in interpreting what an image should print like for good results.
maybe brother a touch quicker too it seams.
Maybe that makes more dollars ROI because of that.
Quality keeps bringing them back, but so does lower cost per hour printing.

It's like everyone has their strong points that create the argument, which DTG to buy.

Everyone (almost) seems to be very happy with their brand of printer.
Brother, Neo, Mod1, even the odd anajet user banding an all.. (well,, maybe not so many of them).


I guess I want the right balance of speed, reliability, simple maintenance, and nice prints.

Oh, and a good deal helps a little too :D

If someone has printed with more than one brand, could they comment on the Neo rip , in terms of how it automatically (or doesn't) take a image and create a nice white base with colour print.. VS the others they used?? requiring more tweeking or less or same?

Is their a youtube vid of someone using the various rips to adjust a print.?
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23spiderman
there's a plethora of youtube videos, but if you agree with my first comment, then that's all you need...the sharpest image. who cares if you can print a shirt a little bit faster if it's not as good as the NeoFlex. i want to know that when i press "print" my output will be excellence. time isn't the most important factor, and your customers will never know or care how long it took you to print their shirts. nor will they care that it took multiple test prints to get the image "just right". i have used another rip with AnaJet (EK Print Studio) and i can tell you that the NeoFlex prints WITHOUT me having to mess with the image. sometimes tweaking may be desired, but not NEARLY to the same extent. my AnaJet was/is a great printer (i have the older one that was made well), but the Neo RIP Pro is above and beyond great. go look at the thread that shows some of the NeoFlex prints and you see a couple that i did with ZERO editing.

i'm quite glad that i'm not a beta tester for the M series, and i know that i made the right decision going with NeoFlex now that i've been using it for over 8 months now. plus the customer service is top notch.

while Brother does have great printer credibility, there are a lot of "less than stellar" reviews regarding the 782 (which uses white ink) and the graffitee (sp?) is too new. but like i said, the DuPont inkset is best in the industry. i personally think DuPont inks look better than Kornit and Brother prints.
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We have Neo.
Prints are better. Just did private time on the brother.
Throughput is better with design.
They all need more maintenance than suggested, with white always being the issue. IMHO.
If you print daily the maintenance actually lessens.
We went cmyk and do 1-200 a week.lost little profit in our market dropping the white. All our production runs we're cmyk.
We also screen print, so production on darks goes that way.
Their rip is superior. Brother runs a machine file. Not so wysiwyg. Took Bother 4 tries to get acceptable dark print with our art.
4880 parts easy. Neo buys up world supply.

Buy a neo.dtg market is high Rez right now. Buy a pretreater as well. Pretreat consistency is key. We use neo white pretreat as well. Colors pop.
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S
Y'all must be like.. what is this guy talkin' about.. It is a no brainer NOEFLEX dumby..
The load neo 3 platens, and go load your tajima's (or whatever)while they print.. makes a nice feature.
I can make extra$ with their solvent too, I have small market for that.
Sorry.. just trying to reassure myself of good decision.
Lot's of Epson high maintenance vs Built for DTG brand..
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