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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have a very detailed small outline text that layers on top of a large graphic background. I was getting excited when I first read about overprinting wet on wet, but then read about how with water-based ink will always show through and blend the two colors and it's never a good idea to do wet on wet with water-based only with plastisol. Would be OK if I flash in between and using over printing? I would be using white text on top of a dark grey background graphic on a black shirt. The lines are so small that they even a 16th of an inch shift in screen printing and messes up the entire production run.

Here is an example of what I'm trying to achieve. on black shirt background. You can see where the outline is going to give me issues during a 16th of an inch shift.
This is a 9.5 x 14-inch design.

Any ideas? Thanks!

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Sure. Nothing wrong with flashing and over printing. That eliminates the need to worry about precise alignment.
Thank you for the response! Are there any downsides to this technique? And with water-based ink will there be bleed through on the colors if you flash in between?
 

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Non-opaque colors always affect each other to some extent, regardless of flashing and regardless of ink type. White ink is obviously opaque. You will be printing it heavy enough to turn a black shirt white. Any ink under it will be irrelevant.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Non-opaque colors always affect each other to some extent, regardless of flashing and regardless of ink type. White ink is obviously opaque. You will be printing it heavy enough to turn a black shirt white. Any ink under it will be irrelevant.
Thanks so much! I will give it a try and try and get back to you on the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Non-opaque colors always affect each other to some extent, regardless of flashing and regardless of ink type. White ink is obviously opaque. You will be printing it heavy enough to turn a black shirt white. Any ink under it will be irrelevant.
Ahhh... one more important question I almost forgot. Does it matter or not if I'm using discharge for my inks when overprinting? I may not have a choice as I'm trying to get the brightest color. Half the white text would be over the shirt and the other bit over the background color or course.
 

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The reason to use discharge is to achieve a print that has low to no handfeel. Else printing on a dark garment requires underbasing with white and using opaque inks, which by their nature add some handfeel, as they must be opaque enough to entirely block out the color of the shirt.

A white discharge printed over a gray ink will not discharge/remove the gray ink under it. So the hiding of the gray will depend entirely on the opacity of the white ink. Unless your goal is a print with no handfeel, there is no particular reason to use discharge, and at least two not to: 1) It won't help with overprinting over the gray. 2) The stuff is noxious. Use an organics respirator and good ventilation. I started off printing discharge. I now prefer to work with opaque inks, like Permaset Supercover.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
The reason to use discharge is to achieve a print that has low to no handfeel. Else printing on a dark garment requires underbasing with white and using opaque inks, which by their nature add some handfeel, as they must be opaque enough to entirely block out the color of the shirt.

A white discharge printed over a gray ink will not discharge/remove the gray ink under it. So the hiding of the gray will depend entirely on the opacity of the white ink. Unless your goal is a print with no handfeel, there is no particular reason to use discharge, and at least two not to: 1) It won't help with overprinting over the gray. 2) The stuff is noxious. Use an organics respirator and good ventilation. I started off printing discharge. I now prefer to work with opaque inks, like Permaset Supercover.
OK I used a discharged white 2 passes, one pass gray back color with flash 20 secs so not wet on 200 mesh screen. The gray blew right through on overprinting. Ideas on how to prevent this from happening? I'm wondering if I need to flash the gray, ink white, flash it, ink white again, set to dry then cure in tunnel dryer without force air. Just worried gray is going to get to much heat overall by the time it hits the tunnel dryer.

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My only advice is to use a regular opaque white ink and to P/F/P until it is opaque enough to cover up both the black shirt and the gray ink without the use of discharge. The discharge in the white can only affect the dye in the shirt; it can do nothing to remove the gray ink from under the white. To overprint, you need an opaque white. If your white was made specifically for discharge, it was made to have low handfeel, not high opacity.

If this job must be done with discharge because zero-hand is a requirement, then you need to knock the text out of the background image and tighten up your registration. Note, I often print designs along these lines with just ONE color, by adding a paper/shirt-colored outline/stroke to the text to set it apart from the background image. You could use the same approach to increase your registration tolerance--if that change to the design would be acceptable. Else just overprint with an opaque white.
 

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Big fan of discharge myself...
This is totally wrong in my opinion. I never overprint colors, unless it is over complete sections. It just looks amateurish.

The gray blew right through on overprinting. Ideas on how to prevent this from happening?
It did not. It's just that the discharge aditive cannot dischargr pigment. If it did you wouldn't be able to print any color. It can only discharge the cotton dyes.

You just have to redo the screens and remove the grey where there is white.
Registration for this design is not hard at all. You can basically eyeball it.

but then read about how with water-based ink will always show through and blend the two colors and it's never a good idea to do wet on wet with water-based only with plastisol.
This is completely wrong.
a) you cannot overlap plastisol without flash drying.
b) The term "wet on wet" does NOT mean "overlap". It simply means no drying in between.
c) Wet on wet works really well with discharge, but if you overlap the colors will mix.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Big fan of discharge myself...
This is totally wrong in my opinion. I never overprint colors, unless it is over complete sections. It just looks amateurish.


It did not. It's just that discharge cannot pigment. If it did you wouldn't be able to print any color. It can only discharge the cotton dyes.

You just have to redo the screens and remove the grey where there is white.
Registration for this design is not hard at all. You can basically eyeball it.


This is completely wrong.
a) you cannot overlap plastisol without flash drying.
b) The term "wet on wet" does NOT mean "overlap". It simply means no drying in between.
c) Wet on wet works really well with discharge, but if you overlap the colors will mix.
Well... I’ve got an older machine that has registration adjustments, but I’ve had terrible luck when printing multiple colors. It always seems to shift at least an 8th of an inch or so. Not sure why as everything seems right. But looks like maybe I should revisit and try to nail down the problem.

on a side note... I don’t think using registration adjustments on knockout print is going to work here. I’ve got razor sharp lines that have to line up perfectly that look like their about 1/32 of an inch Wide. The detail is just to great on cursive lines. I think I have no option but to do over print or my life is going to be miserable trying to get the registration marks lined up on that much detail tolerance.

I also ordered some high opacity non dischargable Snow White water base ink to use instead of the current mixing white I’m using. Should be in on Monday so I’ll have to wait until I test them with the over printing.
 

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I’ve got razor sharp lines that have to line up perfectly
That's in theory.
In reality the edges will overlap a little bit due to dot-gain.
Works really well with discharge.

Printing method is a matter of preference of course... So do what you think looks best.
 
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