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You will see a difference whether you use image armor or Firebird pretreat with either Dupont or Firebird Inc. I recommend that you do your own testing and see what works best for you you're not going to get the same results with one Inc. with another pretreat because everybody creates there's different.

Each one has there benefit, and have used them all with all possible combinetions
 
Discussion starter · #43 · (Edited)
You will see a difference whether you use image armor or Firebird pretreat with either Dupont or Firebird Inc. I recommend that you do your own testing and see what works best for you you're not going to get the same results with one Inc. with another pretreat because everybody creates there's different.

Each one has there benefit, and have used them all with all possible combinetions

"Wobble for Jesus" - haha I like that, just visited your store..

Yes I fully understand what you are saying, what works for one might not work for another. But I also know something about recipes, that you need exact ingredients to make the same dish consecutively. The same principle has many applications in life, and it applies well to DTG... for me anyways...

For example: I have been making NY Style Pizza (dough mainly) for 15 years... I know a lot of different recipes for achieving that same hard to imitate crust, that stretchy yet crispy crust that so many West Coasters can't seem to emulate exactly... Then they blame it on the water, stating that NY water has something special in it that wont allow them produce it in their oven, 3000 miles away. I was told that I would have to use "NY Tap water" (lol!) in order to emulate that delicious NY style crust. Well it shouldn't come as a surprise that I dispelled that myth through intense research and tweaking every aspect of the recipe.. and it seemed absurd to think that filthy tap water out the East River was the credit to that special taste... besides, a real NY Pizza shop would shut down in 2 seconds in inspector showed up and witnessed them pouring that garbage into the dough mixture. And after much deliberate research, I am now able to reproduce and achieve those same results in our own home oven... Pizza-snobs don't believe it until they come over and eat some of my homemade Pizza. I also worked in a few authentic joints when I was a kid and learned a few "tricks" from the masters... And they use filtered RO water, by the way.

Similarly, I dove into the DTG world with the same heart and enthusiasm, and learned some important techniques from the masters. So I guess what I am saying is this: there are several ways to arrive at the same destination. But there will always be a way to get there faster. And I am always interested in the latter option. And I will always veer off the beaten path and experiment for myself. Remember too, that this DTG path isn't that old either, so experimentation should be highly encouraged so we can all share info and 'arrive faster' (I felt like AA Peter for sec just now)

Image Armor seems to get me there, but am betting that Firebird PT will get me there faster. FB PT on the way!

-T
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
I'll keep this update short and sweet...

Impatience is Virtue only a Greek could fully employ..
I couldn't wait until tomorrow. So here is the wash test/destruction test I promised. Forgive the nonsensical banter, it is late and it was my 5th attempt at making a useful video that shows the strength of the Firebird Ink, post wash. And I wasn't nice to it at all, pretty incredible result.

I'll do a proper video tomorrow to show with a better cam, but watch this vid for now. New Destructo Video Here ----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwRa_5kYui8
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Highlight Reel from tonight torture test...

As described in the Title above, these are some closeups of the torture test from tonight's video. Take a look at where the the shirt actual tears apart from extreme pressure, notice how the ink did not split until the shirt exploded underneath it...

To put things in perspective: HD6 T-shirts are 6oz, and very tightly wound cotton, very hard to tear apart. I can easily rip through a Gildan 2000.

This extreme stretch test unnecessarily abusive, but am intentionally going overboard to display remarkable durability with the new Firebird White Ink.. (click on images for extreme closeup of fibers bonding with ink)
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #48 ·
Hey Madfenix. Just curious, how long did you let the FB ink sit in the lines before printing that on the left? Because 2 things are crossing my mind

1. The ink was left in the lines for a couple days unagitated, and separated a litte bit making the WUB more watery
2. Not enough PT causing the white ink to leach through the surface of the shirt.

Because the Magenta wont bind to the wub effectively enough if the white is leaching through to the bac, and if it doesnt sit on top of the fibers. Pretreat 3 shirts all at once, the 1st being a heavy application, and the last being the lightest amount. Then print that same image on 3 separate shirts and perform your test/cure. I suspect is not enough PT like Anthony mentioned. I noticed some results like that while testing for this thread, and under PT-ing was the culprit.
 
Discussion starter · #49 ·
So I was going to destroy another shirt here to display the incredible durability of the Firebird White product with the IA.. But in an attempt to avoid being redundant, I am going to wait until the FB Dark PT gets here so we can do a side by side comparison... And also to give my fingers a break lol... they are sore..

Stay tuned
 
i have a freejet too

plz keep testing, im planning too switch too.... but still afraid the trouble it gets me

im currently very comfortable with dupont now.... but i want that 60 sec cure that firebird has..

plz try using Firebird pretreatment, see if there your crack still occurs
Let me know once you figure out FB. Ill drop by your shop to print one on gildan.:thumbup:



Sent from my LG-D802 using T-Shirt Forums
 
Hey Madfenix. Just curious, how long did you let the FB ink sit in the lines before printing that on the left? Because 2 things are crossing my mind

1. The ink was left in the lines for a couple days unagitated, and separated a litte bit making the WUB more watery
2. Not enough PT causing the white ink to leach through the surface of the shirt.

Because the Magenta wont bind to the wub effectively enough if the white is leaching through to the bac, and if it doesnt sit on top of the fibers. Pretreat 3 shirts all at once, the 1st being a heavy application, and the last being the lightest amount. Then print that same image on 3 separate shirts and perform your test/cure. I suspect is not enough PT like Anthony mentioned. I noticed some results like that while testing for this thread, and under PT-ing was the culprit.
not realy, im only having this kind of problem in one of my fabric
other fabric it prints nice

does FB separated more slow, same or faster than dupont?
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
I've noticed all TiO2 based inks separate at the same rate, a couple days. Sometimes I have to use a syringe to shoot the ink back to the container, shake it up, and send it back to the print head. Just wait for the bubbles to subside before sending back to the head.
 
Your absolutely right about recipes.everyone has there's. I have tested easily over1000 combinations of shirts, amount pretreat, hearing temp, hearing time, heating pressure, type if garment. And found what works for me. I listened to others before me and tried and than tweaked. This his why I don't always say a little thing I do, because newbies will do it exactly the same and if result aren't same they are discouraged or say his way is crap, I give guidelines and what to look for.

The inks and pretreat that are out thre will all work in some ones recipe. It's being consistent with consistent results. I'm happy to see more competition with this, and not just DuPont. It makes them step up there game.with others. Waiting for the day when don't need pretreat anymore.hopefully not retired before that.lol
 
Hey T, while it's nice using the ia pt, results are mixed across the board, even for Shawn at firebird but he will never say it in public because he won't ever make it look like he's trying to put anything negative towards another company. While it can work it's strongly recommended to use Fb pt. Secondly, when you do get the Fb pt and I believe you said u are using the kothari rip, you will only want to use the black shirt profile or color shirt profile. If anything other than a black shirt, you will want a complete white underbase under all the color which a dark shirt profile won't provide. Reason being that cmyk printed color not on top of a white underbase will wash out with the dark fb pt. I have shirts where the white underbased colors are still perfect but the dark colors with no underbase are washed out. In that instance, maybe still good to use ai pt for lighter shirts that may need white but can get away with large areas of just cmyk print.

Lastly I do have The same heat press and had to calibrate as my press was off by over 15 degrees! Definitely had a huge effect on wash and yet still at 60 secs.

Last thing is I don't know how much you sell your shirts for but using that high of a white profile I hope you get top dollar. With the time and then cost of ink it seems not much of a common scenario to be testing one color solid prints. My whites are extremely solid at 1440x1440. Might want to save some money and lower the profile res and then do your 24 hr rest time theory.
 
My thanks goes out to madfenix for bringing his unique fabric to our attention and working more closely with us to help resolve the issues he is experiencing.
This is truly where these forums shine. Sharing of information and reaching out for assistance to resolve situations that can be absolutely frustrating and confusing as to why one product works and another not as well.
We will share our conclusive evaluation of madfenix's fabric and am certain we can help resolve the bonding and vibrancy issues he is experiencing on this one particular brand of fabric.
 
What fabric are you using?
nothing fancy

100% cotton combed, ringspun

but i figure it might because of the softener used on the fabric, here in my country most fabric factory using softener in ther cotton, making them more softer than any usa brand cotton
@FIREBIRDken

i heard HobbyPrint will send u the fabric yes?
HP will buy it straight from the factory
 
nothing fancy

100% cotton combed, ringspun

but i figure it might because of the softener used on the fabric, here in my country most fabric factory using softener in ther cotton, making them more softer than any usa brand cotton

@FIREBIRDken

i heard HobbyPrint will send u the fabric yes?
HP will buy it straight from the factory
Yes....can't wait to test it.
I will let you know when it arrives
 
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