[GorillaImprints]

I just had an account with an embroidery company who outsources all their printing fall into my lap. We are talking 15,000-20,000 shirts per year predicted just from this embroidery company. I have only been printing for about a year on entry level equipment. Odessey 4/4, BBC Little Buddy, BBC Flash etc. I have been getting several jobs per month since I started (I have a full time job and do this part time at home). My dilemma is that I can't handle that kind of volume on my current equipment. These guys are pro's and expect top quality from me. I have gotten a quote on some new M&R equipment (Diamondback S, Economax dryer, reno flash, etc) but I'm stressed out about the payment....looking at like $745 per month. Should I take the risk of buying an auto set up, or buy a nice M&R sidewinder or Vastex Manual?

 

[ScreenFoo]

Can you print the type of quality they're looking for on your manual? If you can't, it's unlikely new equipment is going to help a lot--many people are under the impression that an auto will magically make them good at printing, but the truth is, if you can't make a good stencil, or print it on a manual, it's not likely an automatic press, larger dryer, etc. will save you. If they are looking for color capacity you can't handle, a larger manual will likely be necessary anyway, if you choose to get/keep the client.

If you're talking 15,000 to 20,000 shirts in quantities of 12-36, an auto isn't going to help you a whole lot anyway--if it's all 48-1,000 orders, that's a much different situation.

I also wouldn't do *anything* rash as far as 'predictions' go--perhaps finding a good outsourcing partner for large orders, and keeping the smaller ones you can fit into your shop and schedule would be a good place to start--then if you find you can expand without worrying what will happen if that one client dumps you, you're in the clear.

 

[GorillaImprints]

I can turn out good quality on my machine as long as it's not really tight registration. The oddessey is not very consistent when things get tight. It has a tough time staying registered even when I use a 1 pixel trapping on my artwork. Which leaves me pretty pissed off. They have liked my quality on the smaller jobs, however, I don't think that my quality would hold up on the several 1000 shirt orders. A couple of the orders are 5000 shirts. I know I could outsource, but this is contract style printing. They hand me the shirts and I get paid to print them....if I tried to outsource jobs like these I would make pennies.....right now I'm pulling in about 2.50-3.50 per shirts on these smaller jobs and will be making around .89cents on the big orders over 1000 shirts.

 

[ScreenFoo]

Couple things would help frame it properly--when you say .89 for over 1K, and 2.50 to 3.50 on smaller orders, how many colors are you talking about?

The thing to keep in mind is, if you are having issues because of your press, then a new one will fix it--the trick is *knowing* that the press is the problem. I've heard of more than a few people who had registration problems, that then traced it to their films, or low/uneven screen tension. I'd also point out, if you can't hold tight registration on your manual, it will stink to set up every sub-48 shirt job on the auto because it's the only press you have that holds registration--I think of a good manual as a necessity, personally.

The other thing that's easy to forget about is all the random things you'll want to upgrade to keep up with the new auto--Do you have a good film output system, a compressor and dryer that will supply the press, that MSP exposure unit, good screens, a properly sized washout booth, proper electrical service, etc?

Just to look at a simple count--if you're looking at .89 for the big orders, if you figure 15,000 shirts for the lease payment you're talking about, you'll be paying twice as much for the equipment as you will have left over for your materials, labor, and (hopefully) some amount of profit. Not the greatest numbers. If you have a lot of prospects, this may not be the right argument--but again, there's that old adage about counting your chickens...

If you can outsource the 1K plus orders you can't handle on a nice new manual, you'll likely be *clearing* a lot more money, and I guarantee you more manual experience will absolutely pay off when you move to an auto.

Don't by any means take this as a 'don't buy an auto' post, just make sure you have the bases loaded before you try to knock it out of the park.

 

[abchung]

There is an article on the murakami mesh website about automatic hidden cost.

just google murakami mesh.

Don't just depend on one customer. It is extremely dangerous. you must have several customers just incase one of them pulls out.

good luck

 

[beanie357]

Autos can produce as good, as well as more consistent prints. Many manuals seem to have issues holding reg. Try an Anatol Titan 7 color, 8 station with a quartz flash or 2. It is designed for one man printing, or an 6/8. Small footprint, good price. We use a vastex manual, and can't say we have had problems with reg going out, but I see that is a common complaint with a bunch of brands. Autos with air clamps seem to hold reg throughout the run, no matter what the size run.

Good anatol titan clip on youtube from a chap who went over it when he got it.

Business wise, it might open up more doors for you, or speed up the time you spend printing after work. Of course, screens are the root of an easy and superior job as mentioned by another post.

 

[GorillaImprints]

I really appreciate all the input. My wife and I have been seriously talking over our options. Our practical side says buy a top of the line manual printer and a new, higher capacity dryer along with some roller frames and see how the quality and registration turns out. Our entrepenuer side says make the commitment and buy the auto because its going to provide us with the option to take on the bigger jobs, as well as allow us to get the job done quicker when we get home from our full time jobs. Our full time jobs is also what gives us the confidence that we can fund an auto press. We have both our cars paid off, so we look at buying an auto press like buying an expensive car that will pay for itself. Its commical that people wont even baulk at the idea of buying a new car if they need it.....something that basically costs you tons of money from the time you buy it, til the time it dies....yet investing in a machine that can make you oodles of money in the long run, seems like a big scarey step.

 

[Flagrant-T]

We have both our cars paid off, so we look at buying an auto press like buying an expensive car that will pay for itself. Its commical that people wont even baulk at the idea of buying a new car if they need it.....something that basically costs you tons of money from the time you buy it, til the time it dies....yet investing in a machine that can make you oodles of money in the long run, seems like a big scarey step.

This is exactly the thought that has been going through my mind lately. Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[kirkmansigns]

Once you buy an auto, you'll never regret it. As far as people up here saying to use a manual press for a 24 print run... bull. I'd still run the small orders on our automatic. It's just as easy to set up as a manual. Our manual sits in the corner now and only gets used for very odd print jobs. Yes, you will still need to keep a manual... but all your jobs will switch to the auto once you get one. We paid $ 15,000 for ours and have been very happy. It's not as nice as the M&R (so people have told me up here) but for the money I'm very satisfied with the Tuf Freedom.

 

[ScreenFoo]

I would respectfully disagree with that--although it would depend on your auto/man press skills, auto/man press type, designs, tolerances, and most importantly, your customers expectations.

24 may be a good minimum for the auto if you have a great pre-reg system and excellent screens. Maybe even 12 if you rarely print butt-fit or tight tolerance work.

 

[GorillaImprints]

I would respectfully disagree with that--although it would depend on your auto/man press skills, auto/man press type, designs, tolerances, and most importantly, your customers expectations.

24 may be a good minimum for the auto if you have a great pre-reg system and excellent screens. Maybe even 12 if you rarely print butt-fit or tight tolerance work.

My wife who has never touched a screen in her life was able to register a 6 color job using the trilock system first time with tolerance of 3 colors overlapping on a 10 point type which was butt ed with no trapping. Took her nearly 5 min.....hahah. I would say that this kind of speed and accuracy would not be a bad situation for any sized job.

 

[ScreenFoo]

OK, what are you waiting for then.

 

[GorillaImprints]

I was really just wanting to check with printers that started with a manual and upgraded to an auto to find out if its something that they would recommend. Im not interested in manual screen printing for the next 20 years. I want to get on an auto as soon as possible just because its easier on the arms. The only downfall seems to be the price and the fact that you can't just grab a piece of wood to make a cheap palette. Im not in the business to keep some nostalgic hand printing craft going....I want to make money and do it efficiently and with as top quality and consistency that I can possibly get.

I guess there is a reason that the auto press industry is growing at a crazy fast pace. M&R told me on the tour that they produce around 30-60 built to order presses per month. Thats a good amount. Hopefully if the financing goes well, my Diamondback will be included in that growing number.

I know that we get a ton of nay sayers in here who are old timers dedicated to hand printing everything. Obviously, as with most industries, if you don't keep up with technology, you will be a dying breed left behind. I don't want to get my business started off trying to compete with the dying breed. I want to get started with where the industry is heading in the next 10 years.

Thanks for all the input.

 

[kirkmansigns]

500 - 800 pieces per hour compared to 180 per hour (3 color job)... doesn't take much thought, just MO' MONEY to make MO' MONEY. Good luck !

 

[ScreenFoo]

BTW, my first job doing this was as a screen maker and auto pressman.

 

[Sdri]

15-20 k shirts per year is not that much seem like a big investment for such a small account. I would do your best to keep up with the work flow. Also you might want to ch
Eck seasonality of their jobs. If you have a $750 monthly payment and no work comes in december you have to be prepared. Just my 2 cents also are you charging contract pricing. If not they will find someone who will and you are.....you get the point.

 

[Jetstarz99]

I really appreciate all the input. My wife and I have been seriously talking over our options. Our practical side says buy a top of the line manual printer and a new, higher capacity dryer along with some roller frames and see how the quality and registration turns out. Our entrepenuer side says make the commitment and buy the auto because its going to provide us with the option to take on the bigger jobs, as well as allow us to get the job done quicker when we get home from our full time jobs. Our full time jobs is also what gives us the confidence that we can fund an auto press. We have both our cars paid off, so we look at buying an auto press like buying an expensive car that will pay for itself. Its commical that people wont even baulk at the idea of buying a new car if they need it.....something that basically costs you tons of money from the time you buy it, til the time it dies....yet investing in a machine that can make you oodles of money in the long run, seems like a big scarey step.

OK years later(Nov 2018) the suspense is killing me.

What decision did you go with, and how are things going??

- Cheers