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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is Bob McCormack in NJ I have finally figured out how to post pics on this site.

The pic detailed is 13.5 x 17.5 approx. I wanted to show how well the Kornit 932 NDS works if you coax it a bit. We also embellished the tee with rhinestones. What do you guys think. Everyone seems so hell bent on bringing this machine down, but I am having great success with it. We do have one problem that has been addressed about streaking and that is solved with the new software we will be receiving sortly

Bob
 

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The colors look cool... the design is kinda cluttered(unless this was just a test shirt :)
good luck with your machine...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The design was printed only as a sample to show what the kornit can do, you are correct there is way to much on the shirt.

Bob
 

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Nice print. Good to see Kornit trying to fix the problems others have mentioned these past few months.

All in honesty though, that print looks great but its something Epson printers can do as well, albeit a bit slower lol.
 

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Nice print Bob. We have been able to consistently achieve the same results with our 931 machines. It sure is fun after going through the initial learning curve being able to print consistent, quality prints all of the time.
 

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That print looks awesome, Bob!

Its nice to see that they finally got some of those issues worked out, for you. I wish they would have done the same for me, anytime between December 2007 and September 2008. Oh well. :) It does seem that Kornit is making headway with some of their more troublesome issues - I would be very interested in seeing how the machines are working in 6 months. Although I don't think I will ever buy a 932, again, I might just look into a 931, some day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
zhengie= please excuse the spelling of your name. There are 2 very important thinks you are forgetting. The speed at which we can print and the cost of our ink compared to all others . In addition the extra time and expense to do a pretreatment then have to heat press it. Put all these factors into it and an EPSON aint gonna do what the KORNIT can.

Bob
 

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Thanks for posting the pic bob.
I agree with Zhenjie, I'm not really sure what I'm looking at besides a normal DTG print with rhinestones.
Is this type of print something that the Kornit could previously not do?
Can you give the group an idea of what some of the problems were preventing prints like the sample you posted?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
As you all know the Kornit is a little more tempermental than all the other machines. Humidity, temp, air circulation in the drying chamber are the most critical. Also the new white ink drys faster which may cause the heads to create banding or streaking if not kept in a constant printing mode.

Someone mentioned the print is no different than anyother DTG printer. I disagree--
1st the pretreatment is light years ahead of eveyone else

2nd the inks are much less expensive

3rd No one comes close to the print time of the Kornit, that I am aware off. They are all 2200, 2800 or 4800 based epson printers, they are all going to print at about the same speed.

This print is particularly large and we did not time it. But I can print 10x12 with a pretreatment 2 passes of white and 1 cmyk in 2 minutes and that includes loading and taking the shirt to the dryer. Thats 30 shirts per hour.

Yes you can get an auto pretreat and pretreat ahead, but we have better continuity and rythem with our machine.

Yes it does cost more and you can get multiple machines, does it work I myself have never done this. If i am not mistaken you would need at least 3 flexi, t-jet or other epson machines to stay up with the Kornit. In my opinion you cannot have 1 person running 3 machines and an autopretreat machine, so you will need more people. The benifit to multi machines is redundancy.

Have people had problems with the Kornit , absolutely but I hear nightmares about anajet t-jet I myself had a lot of problems with the original flexi. Should Kornit be more dillegent with service, yes and they are working on that.

The only thing i do not like about the Kornit is if I am doing shirts without a white underbase I am wasting white ink when the machine purges and that costs me money.

I hope I have answered evryones questions, if not just ask.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Adam,

The answer to your question is no. The Kornit has been printing these type of pics. forever.

The reason we printed it was to show the large white area coverage and the density of the white. Also if i needed to sell this I could produce it faster than any of the other machines therby making it porfitable for me.The rhinestones were something we just threw in. We have a lot of gothic type customers and we thought this shirt would be cool for them.
Feel free to ask anything.

Bob
 

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3rd No one comes close to the print time of the Kornit, that I am aware off. They are all 2200, 2800 or 4800 based epson printers, they are all going to print at about the same speed.

This print is particularly large and we did not time it. But I can print 10x12 with a pretreatment 2 passes of white and 1 cmyk in 2 minutes and that includes loading and taking the shirt to the dryer. Thats 30 shirts per hour.
The HM-1, if I remember correctly, either matches or surpasses the speed of the Kornit. This is fact; I have watched the machine print dozens of times, and I have compared it to my Kornit. Even if it was not quite as fast, 1 operator could easily load 2 Epson based units; it would be the exact same movement as loading a 931 with 2 platens. The pretreatment can be done using the SpeedTreater from Harry at EquipmentZone, and it can be done at an earlier time, if it was too much to fit into the workflow.

As for 30 prints per hour from the 932 - that has almost never been my experience with the machine. Although I certainly did have some times where I got great prints at relatively quick print speeds, the sustainable, consistent production rates were more like 18-24 shirts per hour. Let me interject - I had the extreme pleasure of seeing how the machine was printing for 3.5 days before it crashed for good. At the time, we were using the Onyx RIP, and the results were incredible. It was our most enjoyable three days of printing, ever. During these 3.5 days of printing, we might have come close to averaging 27-30 prints per hour, with a very low misprint percentage. However, I think it would be irresponsible on my part to promote this production figure, knowing that I have never been able to get it on a consistent basis (or even come close, most of the time).

I have been telling people since I first bought the machine: there are benefits to owning a Kornit, but print speed is certainly not one of them. If we are going to compare relative machine speeds, we need to proportionalize for the cost of the machine. Therefore, if a $20,000 machine can print 15 darks per hour, then a $40,000 machine should be considerable faster to be a "better deal". If it is only slightly faster, for 3-4 times the cost (or more), would you consider that a good deal?
 

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I can't speak for the 932, but I sure can speak for the 931. When we schedule our pending orders every day we use a 1 minute production time for white shirts and 2 minutes for dark shirts. This is an average number, but based on our analysis over a period of time, it is pretty close. As I said in an earlier post, 75% of the shirts we print require white ink,so based on that percentage, we average about 35 shirts per hour per machine. Because we can at times have 1 operator keep up with 2 machines, depending on the print time of the orders beign run, our labor costs have to be drastically lower per print than other brands of printers. Between a lower print cost and a lower ink cost, the cost of the Kornit doesn't sound too bad if you have the business to keep the machine busy.
 

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The HM-1, if I remember correctly, either matches or surpasses the speed of the Kornit. This is fact; I have watched the machine print dozens of times, and I have compared it to my Kornit. Even if it was not quite as fast, 1 operator could easily load 2 Epson based units; it would be the exact same movement as loading a 931 with 2 platens. The pretreatment can be done using the SpeedTreater from Harry at EquipmentZone, and it can be done at an earlier time, if it was too much to fit into the workflow.

As for 30 prints per hour from the 932 - that has almost never been my experience with the machine. Although I certainly did have some times where I got great prints at relatively quick print speeds, the sustainable, consistent production rates were more like 18-24 shirts per hour. Let me interject - I had the extreme pleasure of seeing how the machine was printing for 3.5 days before it crashed for good. At the time, we were using the Onyx RIP, and the results were incredible. It was our most enjoyable three days of printing, ever. During these 3.5 days of printing, we might have come close to averaging 27-30 prints per hour, with a very low misprint percentage. However, I think it would be irresponsible on my part to promote this production figure, knowing that I have never been able to get it on a consistent basis (or even come close, most of the time).

I have been telling people since I first bought the machine: there are benefits to owning a Kornit, but print speed is certainly not one of them. If we are going to compare relative machine speeds, we need to proportionalize for the cost of the machine. Therefore, if a $20,000 machine can print 15 darks per hour, then a $40,000 machine should be considerable faster to be a "better deal". If it is only slightly faster, for 3-4 times the cost (or more), would you consider that a good deal?
I was going to respond her earlier Justin but now you have given me reason :)

As justin said above the Hm1 is fairly quick and it is alot less money. I could not justify that amount of a kornit with getting speeds that are not that much difference. I keep hearing about cheaper ink on the kornit, but there are new inks on the market now, and getting more each day as new distributors get into the action, with lower prices on ink also.

So the fact that the machine is a fraction of the cost and the new inks that are coming out at lower prices, these statements may not hold true for long.

If I were to spend almost $200,000 on a machine that machine better never break down and print a perfect print every time, but it is apparent that is not the case from the previous threads here, from the many owners or previous owners of kornits I have seen here.

Bob I am glad you are having good luck with your kornit and that is a great thing, you should for the money the machine cost. I get that you owned a flexi and didnt like it, but there are also alot of different machines out there, and you cant possibly have experience with them all. My hm1 runs perfect and the only times it has not printed perfect was due to my own mistakes. I just think to be fair feedback should only be given on a machine that one has experience with, and not grouping a whole lot of machines into that catagory as they are all different. My machine is not based on a 2200 or a 2800 or a 4800, it is based on the R2400. Also the difference of the rips is going to make a huge difference as well.

I guess I just want to say that there are alot of viable options out there, and they all have their pros and cons. I myself picked my machine for my business model and its perfect for me, as I am sure that is the reason you picked yours also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Dear Sunny Days,

I will keep this brief. Justin says the HM1 is fairly quick how fast is fairly quick? I myself do not know that answer. Fairly quick to me would be 20 plus prints per hour. All I hear about the epson based printers including the new Anajet is about 9-12 10x12 prints per hour f you are lucky. If that is what your business model call for than that is a good investment for you.

It is kind of ironic but just yesterday we did a controlled time and cost test. We printed a new customers art- 10x12 image. The results were 32 perfect prints per hour the cost with pretreat 2 passes of white 1 pass cmyk $1.25. Once again i cant document but I have read posts where people say it cost $5-6.00 per print and not even 1/2 of my production. from epson based printers.

Is the Kornit expensive absolutley does it have a mind of it own on ocassion -it sure does. But if you need production it works for me.

Yes I had a flexi -it was ok have I had 1st hand experience with the other machines no. You should heed what you said with regards to having no experience with a Kornit. Just because
someone else says it did not work for them does not mean you should believe whatever they say.

In the last 9 months we have 1 customer who has printed over 1,800 prints with us, we have had 3 come back because of curing badely. Just as you are happy with your machine I can say the same. I think sometimes the closed forums are a good idea becasue they are for the bettering of that particular machine. Alot of times this forum turns into " DTG envy" and we all know where that will getr us.

Bob

Bob
 

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I can't speak for the 932, but I sure can speak for the 931. When we schedule our pending orders every day we use a 1 minute production time for white shirts and 2 minutes for dark shirts.
So you are factoring 30 dark shirts per hour, on a single 931? I have watched Eddie's 931 print at length, and I know he can easily get 30-45 dark shirts per hour, depending on print size. Also, as I mentioned, the 931 is completely different than the 932; I have seen some of these machines print like champs. If I ever find myself owning another Kornit, it will surely be a 931.

Between a lower print cost and a lower ink cost, the cost of the Kornit doesn't sound too bad if you have the business to keep the machine busy.
I kept my machine busy 24/7, without interruption (aside from machine malfunction) for the majority of the time that I owned it. In fact, that is what made this all the more tragic; we lost a $15,000 per month client because our machine never worked as advertised. We had too much business, at times, because our machine simply would not be able to produce for periods of time! I would never imply that the machine will be any more desirable "if it is kept busy" - that is a very common fallacy.

Robert, it is great that your 931's seem to work for you. However, Nikki Frederini's company has been struggling for several months to get their 931 back on track. On the other hand, Eddie's 931 works awesome, and prints better than my 932 ever did! On the other hand, we dealt with nothing but banding for 2 weeks when we were using his facility, right after my machine went down the last time. My point is, as always; your experience is not necessarily the norm (with the exception of 1+ years of struggling before getting a decent handle on the machine).

If things have changed drastically, and the machines are having all of their issues worked out, then I will be one of the first to shout it from the roof tops. Until then, I am keeping a very wary eye on things.... Maybe I am even being more critical, due to my nightmare of an experience. However, I am also still a digital garment printer, and I am still interested in owning the absolute best equipment on the market (whatever that might be). Therefore, if and when the Kornit works as advertised, all the time, I would be happy as hell to hear about it. Until then, those owners who are still happy with their machines: awesome! Those who are not: I feel your pain!

Either way, there are plenty of options for garment decoration, out there. In fact, I really like how Bob is getting creative with his decoration, and showing DTG being combined with other technologies. At the end of the day, that is the type of thing that will really advance the industry.
 

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Bob - how did you determine your cost per print on the Kornit? Also, did you factor in purge and wipes, as well as the overall cost of all the white ink you are draining while you are printing light garments? That money is still coming out of your pocket at the end of the month.

As for speed - I have seen the HM-1 print an image (my image, in fact) FASTER than I could have printed it when I owned my Kornit. In fact, I wrote a review about this after the show where I witnessed it in person; I was shocked! That little sucker can scream!

PS - I agree with what you are saying, about not necessarily believing everything that you hear! Just because someone says their experience is bad, or good, does not mean you are getting the full story. That is why it is important for the readers to look for supporting evidence; pictures, videos, details, etc. Personally, if you showed me a video of your machine printing 35 shirts in a row (in real time) with no misprints, I would be shocked! BUT, I would certainly accept what my eyes would be seeing! That is why I post tons of pictures of what I have dealt with over the last year or more, including pictures of maintenance performed, print errors, error messages on the computer screen, flooded machine parts, and more. I wouldn't want anybody to be able to say I was making it all up. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Justin,

We marked the bottles in 1/4 icrements and started with new bottles. We did adjust the purgings according to David in Mil. At the end of the run we measured the amount of ink left. When measuring we did not make the measuring to our advantage. Not very scientific but it worked.

BTW did you get my phone call and email about the old site up on the web. We need to get that down. Could we get the current site up.

Regards.

Bob
 
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