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But the disappearing ink will be so convenient when The North Face comes after you for copyright infringement! You can come back with, "Where's the proof?"
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
But the disappearing ink will be so convenient when The North Face comes after you for copyright infringement! You can come back with, "Where's the proof?"
Good point, well raised.

I am not selling these...there is zero infringement.
 

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Is this guy putting way too much pretreat on?
Watching random nonsense on YouTube will not help you.

I've already told you what to do, but you don't want to listen.
The ptertreat is water soluble and goes away in the wash... This is why your prints are failing.
Ink is the adhesive and it has to go into the fabric. I don't know how else to explain it to you.
 

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Watching random nonsense on YouTube will not help you.

I've already told you what to do, but you don't want to listen.
The ptertreat is water soluble and goes away in the wash... This is why your prints are failing.
Ink is the adhesive and it has to go into the fabric. I don't know how else to explain it to you.
In other words: Dilution is the solution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
Watching random nonsense on YouTube will not help you.

I've already told you what to do, but you don't want to listen.
The ptertreat is water soluble and goes away in the wash... This is why your prints are failing.
Ink is the adhesive and it has to go into the fabric. I don't know how else to explain it to you.
Just tried to dilute the pretreat down 1 pt water 3 pt pretreat....Set the pretreat machine to 70% and the whites are still really bright / opaque. Not wash tested yet. I assume it will still crack. so I will try 50/50 water to pretreat and see what happens.

Whites still too thick here, colours too thin.

273328


273329


273330


273331


273332


Choke settings need tweaked also.

I cant believe a "pre mixed" pretreat is so far off the mark with regards to correct mixture. If the whites still look like screen printed whites with it watered down a 3rd, then the mix is way too strong.

I watched the underbase go down and there seemed to be far too much white going down, literally like a puddle, and thats I think with it rolled back in the rip software. It did seem to flatten out and I could see the weave of the cotton through before the colour went down, which I assume is a good thing.

Colour pass still looks ****....weak colours....still not covering the white underbase enough, When cured the colour has faded a lot too...so work required there. tweaking the rip settings perhaps.



Hopefully I am heading towards some sort of breakthrough, rather than a breakdown
 

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Just tried to dilute the pretreat down 1 pt water 3 pt pretreat....Set the pretreat machine to 70% and the whites are still really bright / opaque. Not wash tested yet. I assume it will still crack.
Of course it will crack.
What you did here is thin the pretreat by 30% and then applied 30% more... so nothing has changed. It did spray better of course but that was not the point.

I will try 50/50 water to pretreat and see what happens.
I'd start with 1 part pretreat and 3 parts water at 50% speed.
One thing at a time... fidling with too many settings at the same time will confuse you more.
Get the under-base right first and then move to the next issue.
 

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Of course it will crack.
What you did here is thin the pretreat by 30% and then applied 30% more... so nothing has changed. It did spray better of course but that was not the point.


I'd start with 1 part pretreat and 3 parts water at 50% speed.
One thing at a time... fidling with too many settings at the same time will confuse you more.
Get the under-base right first and then move to the next issue.
I'm new on this forum but I've probably been doing this as long as anyone, albeit from a different angle. I'm posting here only because I'm passionate about PT - I passionately hate it. But, DTG is pretty much built on white ink and PT - people have obviously figured it out and are making good livings with DTG, PT and white ink.

So - listen to TABOB. Any time you see a thick white layer sitting up like that, you've used too much PT, doesn't matter whose PT or ink. It WILL fall apart after 1 wash. 20-25 washes, measured with a washometer, is what I have seen in independent testing (i.e. not a manufacturer's number) on properly pre-treated shirts.

White ink isn't hard but it is fairly demanding and you have to do it right. I have recommended this procedure to printers in the past to get started (and yes, if it seems like work - it is).
  1. Get a tare weight scale that measures to the gram
  2. Put the dry shirt on the scale and weigh it
  3. Zero the scale out on that number
  4. Pre-treat the shirt
  5. Immediately weigh the pre-treated shirt. Weigh the shirt wet, DO NOT PRESS THE SHIRT OR DRY BEFORE WEIGHING. If you zeroed on the un-treated shirt, the weight should between 20g and 25g. If you simply noted the weight of the un-treated shirt, the wet shirt should be 20g – 25g heavier than the untreated shirt.
  6. If the weight was either heavier or lighter than desired, adjust your pre-treatment application and re-run the test.
Same procedure for the Wagner.

Most PT manufacturers have a recommended PT amount per shirt and their documentation should give you that amount of UNDILUTED PT. Others on this thread have described the role of PT extremely well and once you get it right, it's not too difficult to maintain. You may have to adjust occasionally, I find it that the weight of the shirt often determines lower or higher PT amounts - lightweight ~18-20g and heavier shirts ~26-30g.

I've never done the dilution thing before except as part of a larger experiment, so I'll let the experts here help you with that.

As far as the pre-treater goes, I don't know the one you have, I've mostly used ColDesi, Viper and Aeoon PT systems. All allow you to dial in laydown amounts for best quality. If your pre-treater doesn't allow you to dial in a specific amount in some manner, I would find it hard to get and maintain the coverage needed.

Hope this helps. Kind of looking forward getting our new automated DTF system. No PT, good poly printing and +30 washes. We'll see if the hype is all that it's made out to be.

"One thing at a time... fiddling with too many settings at the same time will confuse you more.
Get the under-base right first and then move to the next issue."


Print that statement and hang it next to your printers. Best piece of advice I've seen on this forum.
 
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