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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Hi Smilem,

I just want to clarify something. We always do our best to support our customers and make sure they are happy. If a customer were to receive a machine that is not working, typically, they call to let us know.
We opened zing because it was not even starting, turning on. From photos you can see that the zing was not dissembled at that time, we taken only side panels and top lid from the machine. We were looking for a loose connector that could happen during shipping.

I emailed [email protected]ACCugraphics.co the photos of problem. Instead of helpful reply we wait for 13 days for our email to be forwarded to your tech department, I doubt you're multi building company with hundreds of employees if you manufacture everything in china and do not even check / inspect what you sell for quality.

Anyone ordering outside of the US, would bear the responsibility of shipping. That did no happen, in this situation.
Well, I did not say "give my money back" - need the cutter to work, I purchased it not to be tampered with like you say.

I asked you to check if this is an isolated problem, or maybe a whole batch of units is effected with this problem. Instead you should say thanks if you are so shortsighted and do not inspect what you sell. We done the inspection for you without demanding any payment for doing so, we could not do the project's the zing was purchased for either.

You did not respond to my inquiry, you did not check other Zing units that you sell thousands of
every day

chad[USER=12636]@ACC[/USER]ugraphics.co

"Hello I have been passed on your emails from our support department.
Please let us know what specifically is not working with the machine so we can help you get in operation. All of our machines go through vigorous testing including a 24 hour burn in test as well as a shake test (machine shook) After sales of thousands of machines we rarely get complaints. We are happy to help. We will be happy to replace for no charge if you want to return it. We will help trouble shoot and send parts for free if you prefer not going through the cost of return. I am told there are scratches all over the machine ….I assure you that we never send damaged machines out the door . Maybe customs agents took the machine out and caused the scratches. "

How can anyone speak about customs agents causing scratches when the machines are sealed in a plastic bag?

How anyone mistaken metal dust with scratches form high quality multiple angle shot photos?

How can anyone selling thousands of machines every day would not simply replace a single unit of 399$ The reputation is more important for company even if it would cost way more to replace the unit.

If you like a company are not ready to ship to whole world and take responsibility for it then don't. Why sell and then hide by not replying to emails etc.

This is honestly the first time we have received photos of a completely disassembled cutter, before communication has even begun.
That is not right, from photos you can see that the zing was not dissembled at that time, we taken only side panels and top lid from the machine. We were looking for a loose connector that could happen during shipping.

We deal with way more complex electronics every day, perhaps typical users are afraid to open their PC's but in our case it was done by a qualified technician not a home type of user.


This is not an issue of us trying to enforce some silly rule, or rip off our customers. There is one fundamental reason for our policy on this: We can not determine what issues have been introduced when a machine has been opened / disassembled /tampered with.
So you expect that you do not have to check / inspect what you sell, you just hope the china factory to do it for you? Well in this case the factory did not do it.

If I would ship something from china to us, then from us to europe, I would check if everything works before packing it up. Even GCC test their cutters before shipping from factory, they include test vinyl sheet to prove it.
Not the case with the Zing the machine is packed in sealed plastic bag. That means nobody in the chain of "hundreds hands before it got to my country" could tamper with it.[/quote]


When it comes down to it, the customer should always be happy; Good business is when both the buyer AND the seller can walk away from a transaction, satisfied. We will never take advantage of our customers, just to make sure our butts are covered. We have a reputation to uphold, and we wouldn't be able to maintain that good reputation, if this is how we handled ourselves.
I hope this is the truth.

Maybe we got off on the wrong foot, Smilem. I can empathize with you. I would love to come to an agreement where both you and us can walk away satisfied.

I've sent you a few emails now. Please feel free to respond at your earliest convenience.
I hope we can get to an agreement and I can say so in this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
But you opened it and took it a part... He now has no idea if the problem was really the cutter or not in the first place... Now he just has to take your word for it....

A photo is worth a thousand words, again I'm puzzled are you people so silly that you can't understand that electronics and metal dust particles are not suppose to be together?

The metal particles can cause a short circuit, the machine either does not work or burns. In our case the short circuit protection kicked in and the unit did not burn.

How can KNK USA have a tech department specialist that does not know this, can identify such problems from photos of 12MP multiple angle shots?

Because he is incompetent that is way, I can't think about anything else, if one is involved with electronics he/she will never respond in a manner that KNK did.

That's the problem... So the solution is you ship it back at your own expense and he ships you a new one at his expense... Probably not totally fair but as a business man to me that is reasonable...
IF a company claims to sell thousands of units every day for me it is not reasonable, they could just send me new zing at their expense and could ask if can ship it cheaper by regular mail etc. Because the unit has no value anymore.

Instead KNK USA tries to ignore everything I emailed them, every photo I showed them they see no problems, no honesty there.

To me it's a gift if Chad were to agree honestly... I doubt Chad has a $300 profit margin on these cutters.. So he for sure will be losing money to ship you a replacement at his dime once he gets your "defective" unit back...
Every company decides at what price point to sell their goods, Roland sells carriage unit for 330Eur, GCC for 25USD, zing cost 399$ go figure.

If you sell at a price point lower then you ensure quality then that is the problem of the manufacturer/seller but not the user that reads on KNK USA website that a company has 30 years of experience and that zing is a quality machine made from metal.


It's pretty common sense when you open something up electronic you are voiding the warranty... My cell phone doesn't have a sticker but I'm sure it's in the fine print somewhere just as it's posted on the KNK website opening the unit voids the warranty...
It is common sense to put a sticker to say that warranty is void if opened, also some companies put leaflet that like "no serviceable parts inside"

Zing does require (like all cutters) to replace bearings on carriage to you have to open it someday, now if you expect every international customer to pay 330$ to replace 6 bearings worth of 5$ think again.
 

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I don't know about the rest of the readers, but I am getting tired of ONE person gripping about his/her experience with a particular company. I think we all get the picture of what the OP believes and outside of that, the OP should now take the disagreement private and not in the forum once a point has been made...
Maybe someone will close the thread...JMHO
 

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We can split hairs over what constitutes as disassembled or not. I will refer to image 7:

What we are looking at is the main beam in the KNK Zing. This would be equivalent to the chassis of a car. So if your Zing were a car, that would mean you would have had to remove the exterior, engine, interior, wheels, gas tank and anything else attached to the body. That photo shows literally NOTHING but the "chassis".

I have personally opened and inspected many Zings. I have not found any noticeable amount of metal filings. But, I'm usually gentle and know what I'm doing. I'm not going to say you DON'T know what your doing, but surely, you are not a certified KNK repairman. I don't now if you've stripped anything out while ripping your machine to shreds. Again, this comes down to common sense when dealing with a warranty issue. I wouldn't expect to get a new printer, (or even help in repairing a printer), if I dismantled it before calling support.

Since we're sharing emails with everyone, Your latest email to me:

Smilem - "I will be glad to return the zing cutter to you, if you pay the shipping.
The machine is in disassembled state now, do you want it to be put together, or I just wrap the parts and pack it in same box as I got it?"


What am I supposed to do with a completely disassembled cutter? Not only would I be taking a loss by refunding you, paying for shipping back; Now I have to, (or pay an employee), reassemble the machine you've taken apart. Even if you were to put it back together, I can't trust that you've done it correctly.

"...I want you to make payment to my bank account before I send the Zing, if you don't trust me then 50% before and the rest after it's picked up. Given the fact in KNK USA and my communication problems I have doubts you actually will return my money after I ship the machine..."

I haven't responded to this email, yet, because I'm really just at a loss. I hate to air this on a public forum, but you've really left me with no other option but to publicly defend ourselves. Forum posts like this are EXTREMELY damaging to us. With that being said, if I "bend the rules" and accept your terms of satisfaction, I'm now opening ourselves up to a whole new can of worms.
 

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I don't know about the rest of the readers, but I am getting tired of ONE person gripping about his/her experience with a particular company. I think we all get the picture of what the OP believes and outside of that, the OP should now take the disagreement private and not in the forum once a point has been made...
Maybe someone will close the thread...JMHO

I agree 100%. I know Rodney runs a fairly tight ship and would hope he will put an end to the silly rantings sooner rather than later.

We all have had issues in the past with things that upset us, but to beat a dead horse like this just makes the OP seem foolish.

Take it private and let the chips fall where they may.
 

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I guess the dilemma for the company is figuring out how many folks are persuaded by one side of the argument or the other....And how many folks that believe the OP will choose not to buy the product in question....

I am not in the market for a cutter at this time but if I were I think I would accept some of the OPs comments during my consideration of such a purchase.....If I were part of just a few that thought this way, probably no big deal for the company, however, if that number were larger, it could be detrimental to sales....In my mind, this company is not standing behind it's product....
 

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Royce...I could agree with you. But while I am not an owner of any of ACS products, including the Zing, I have heard very good responses from those who have the Zing and are very happy with it...Most folks who buy a product and are very happy with it do not post glowing reports...they just use and go on their way. Only a small percentage of the disaffected go to the length the OP has..
 

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In my mind, this company is not standing behind it's product....

This is directly from the FAQ page on the website

"Q. What is the warranty?
A. 1 year parts and labor. If there is a technical issue, it is the customers sole responsibility to pay for shipping to and from the manufacture or dealer. If your machine arrives DOA please contact us immediately. Opening your machine without contacting us first, will result in voiding your warranty."

This is a quote from the OP in the first post made in this thread:

"The cutter was not even starting when we got it, the metal shavings must have been interfering with electronics so since there were not :warranty void" stickers decided to open the machine, maybe some connector got dislodged during shipping and behold what we found!"


Sounds like end of story to me!

A big pat on the back to Chad for at least stepping in and trying to resolve/clarify this issue.
 

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Quite frankly I do not care about all the rules, when one of my clients has a problem I fix it...Even if it is their mistake.......In the 1st 15 years I was in business I followed all the so called rules and was a "hard ***" and I hardly made a living......In the last 15 years I became much more flexible and I am making more money than I ever have.....Karma comes back to you whether it is good or bad.....
 

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Something is fishy here... sorry.

I'd be suspicious that they bought one to backwards engineer it, or use it somehow to do something else, looks like re-cut threads to me. Now that they are done with whatever they were doing, they want Zing to take it back... and pay for it all to boot. Why else strip it all down to bare essentials- WAY past a point of getting to anything electrical that would prevent it from starting- which was the original complaint. They seem to have had their cameras out right from the beginning to build a case.

When it didn't turn on at all, i wouldn't have touched it before contacting the manufacturer, or the shipper to make a claim if the package look damaged. Shippers do seem to drag some packages behind their trucks on deliveries. But that wasn't the original claim either.

Smells.. I feel for Chad, he is in a no-win situation and I think that is what Smilem was banking on. Not like this hasn't happened before.
 

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KNK USA has always stood behind their cutters and made sure their customers are satisfied with their new machines. In the past 6 years, I remember two situations in which overseas customers received KNKs that had been damaged during shipping. In both cases, the customers immediately contacted KNK USA and the problem was diagnosed. In one case a replacement part was immediately shipped to the customer. In the other case, Chad and Ron made a personal video for the customer to show her how to repair the machine so that it wasn't necessary to ship it back.

Now, I feel that if this smilem had taken the time to contact KNK USA before taking a screwdriver to the cutter and completely disassembling the entire machine for the purpose of pointing out his dissatisfaction with how it was made, then the initial problem could have been diagnosed and repair parts and/or instructions for repair could easily have been provided.

In my past 20 years, I've purchase 2 IBM PC's and 1 HP PC that failed within the first day of ownership. In NONE of those three situations did it ever occur to me to open up and disassemble my computer! I didn't need a warning label ON MY COMPUTER not to do that! I simply knew better than to do it!
 

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Something is fishy here... sorry.

I'd be suspicious that they bought one to backwards engineer it

Funny you say that because after my last response I looked at all the OP's postings. 6 days ago they join the forum and right out of the gate start in with whats inside all the different brand cutters. Even made mention in one post if my memory serves correct that they could build a cutter but software issues would prenvent them from doing so.


Hmmmmmmm.........
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
We can split hairs over what constitutes as disassembled or not. I will refer to image 7:

What we are looking at is the main beam in the KNK Zing. This would be equivalent to the chassis of a car. So if your Zing were a car, that would mean you would have had to remove the exterior, engine, interior, wheels, gas tank and anything else attached to the body. That photo shows literally NOTHING but the "chassis".
I'm tired of repeating myself over and over again:

From photos you can see that the zing was not dissembled at that time, we taken only side panels and top lid from the machine.

You were sent a "Zing cutter claim.pdf" 15MB file with clear photos. The "main beam in the KNK Zing" photo was made later when your colleague gary[USER=12636]@ACC[/USER]ugraphics.co responded:

"Alternative is tell us the part you may need and we can ship you that part."

Obviously at that point how we re suppose to evaluate our device without taking it apart?

You got detailed part summary "Zing cutter replacement parts.pdf" and failed to repond until I started this thread.

I have personally opened and inspected many Zings. I have not found any noticeable amount of metal filings. But, I'm usually gentle and know what I'm doing.
So you agree that you are dishonest then I asked to send me photos of another OK zings, and all I get is silence from your company.

But when a week later I receive email that certain parts could be sent to repair the machine now you say that it's only you that knows what he's doing and I as a customer am at fault of taking apart my unit.

I wouldn't expect to get a new printer, (or even help in repairing a printer), if I dismantled it before calling support.
Read after my first comment, the machine was not disassembled until your employee told us that you can ship parts to repair it.

Since we're sharing emails with everyone, Your latest email to me:

Smilem - "I will be glad to return the zing cutter to you, if you pay the shipping.
The machine is in disassembled state now, do you want it to be put together, or I just wrap the parts and pack it in same box as I got it?"


What am I supposed to do with a completely disassembled cutter? Not only would I be taking a loss by refunding you, paying for shipping back; Now I have to, (or pay an employee), reassemble the machine you've taken apart. Even if you were to put it back together, I can't trust that you've done it correctly.
I was under impression KNK zing is returned for inspection in workmanship quality not re-sell it to somebody else. The machine has no value as it is because key parts are flawed, you need a lathe and a milling machine for fixing the parts, making new parts like side panels for it to work normally.

"...I want you to make payment to my bank account before I send the Zing, if you don't trust me then 50% before and the rest after it's picked up. Given the fact in KNK USA and my communication problems I have doubts you actually will return my money after I ship the machine..."

I haven't responded to this email, yet, because I'm really just at a loss. I hate to air this on a public forum, but you've really left me with no other option but to publicly defend ourselves. Forum posts like this are EXTREMELY damaging to us. With that being said, if I "bend the rules" and accept your terms of satisfaction, I'm now opening ourselves up to a whole new can of worms.
What is strange in that I asked to pay 50% of money in advance, given the fact that you started to communicate only after I started this thread and that like you say:

"I haven't responded to this email, yet, because I'm really just at a loss."

So you agree that you should have communicated by email rather than public forum then why don't you tell everyone that in the first complaint you got I wrote:

"You can silently resolve the quality issues with your china manufacturer. Our company certified engineers can also give you tips on how to improve Zing quality"
I gave you the chance to avoid all this, and to resolve this problem by normally communicating, be it spare parts replacement or new machine or money back

Every company has DOA policy, if you don't then you should have it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Sounds like end of story to me!

A big pat on the back to Chad for at least stepping in and trying to resolve/clarify this issue.
Then why chad does not post my communication with him in essence showing how helpful he was , how KNK USA was trying to help me? Because there was no such emails. I waited for weeks for resolving this, and yes eventually when even the email for sending replacement parts was not answered for a week I decided to fully take apart the cutter and see how it is made to decide if it is work trying to fix it myself.
 
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