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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello, I have purchased a zing zuter directry from KNKUSA, I have seen
your videos in the youtube and was thinking
that the machine is worth buying.

Maybe the pre-production machines were made OK but the normal ones are crap.
I have payed to KNKUSA, 399$ for Zing and 330.52$ to ship it to my
country in Europe.

We are a computer automation company that was hoping to use Zing to
cut paper and other materials to build 3D models. However out machine
was not working when it arrived. Having payed 330.52$ shipping we re
not going to send it back, as the price is crazy.

The cutter was not even starting when we got it, the metal shavings must have been interfering with electronics so since there were not :warranty void" stickers decided to open the machine, maybe some connector got dislodged during shipping and behold what we found!

We opened the Zing removing 6 screws on the bottom, IT WAS AMAZING WHAT WE SO:

- Sharp metal shavings were everywhere, they were from screw threads
that was threaded to aluminum profiles that make Zing chassis.
Since the shavings are very small they can enter bearing cause
premature failure, can cause short circuit in electronics etc.
We used compressed air and the zing started to power up, however

- We so that Aluminum profiles that make Zing chassis are uneven
length, the machine does stand flat on table and does not cut straight
either.
- We so that Zing cutter head belt is not straight, it is noname belt
(no markings) not like in your videos on youtube.
- The cutter head motor is mounted on a not 90 degree mounting bracked.
- The cutter head motor pulled is not straight, top part of the pulley
is misaligned
- Threading quality is horrible, bolts are loose or spin endlessly
when tightened.
- The metal panels that make the sides of the zing are warped, bent,
they are made from soft metal that can easily deform.
- The 3 bad bearing on the cutter head.
- other minor defects

So believing what I read on KNK webside

"With over 30 years of experience, Accugraphics used their knowledge
to develop a new product that
incorporates the newest electronics with quieter motors, faster
speeds, higher force and the widest cutting
area of any cutter in its class."

I sent them photos and a request to send me a new Zing or to return my
money back.

The KNKUSA pretend they do not see anything wrong in the photos !!!!

The KNKUSA refuse to stand behind their products, given the fact that
this is clearly factory defect, and that this was international order
it was KNKUSA responsibility to check the Zing cutter prior to
shipping. They did not do this. They refuse to refund my account for
the price of KNKZING, or to send me a working unit.

Email correspondence:

When I noticed the problem Jan 11, 2012 I contacted [email protected]ACCugraphics.co and sent all the photos and description:
got reply only at January 24, 2012 that my email was forwarded to [email protected]ACCugraphics.co

Yes 13 days to forward an email how hilarious !!!

Feb 2, 2012 the [email protected]ACCugraphics.co writes:

>I am told there are scratches all over the machine ….I assure you that we never send damaged machines out the door .
>Maybe customs agents took the machine out and caused the scratches.

Hello what scraches are you blind ? And you can't read!?

My reply was:

There are two main problems:

1. Metal shavings inside zing cutter machine. They are everywhere.
even on bearing on the stepper motors. I was unable to clean them
entirely 100% so the machine can fail any time it get short circuited.

2. The metal parts are made not up to specifications, they are bent,
not at 90 degree angle, not straight etc. The whole Zing cutter is not
standing flat on a table, one of the side is higher than the other
because parts are dent ect.

The metal shavings interfered with electronics, the unit did not even
power up when I received it.
After paying nearly the same cost as the machine itself for shipping I
expected you to check the machine prior to shipping because I can't
send it back due to high cost.

I need you to:

1. remove the back cover on any other ZING machine by removing 6
screws and plastic sides and make photos like the ones in my PDF
claim.

I would like to see sharp and in good lighting these photos:

1. Is there any metal dust after threading
2. How does the threading quality looks like (photograph threads like in my PFD)
3. How does the belt look like mine is noname (no markings, not
straight belt). On youtube videos I see belt on the zing made by suma
brand, so mine is a noname why???
4. Put a metal straight edge on the metal sides that hold plastic
parts of the machine like in my photos are they straight?
5. The motor that holds the belt is in metal 90 degree part that is
actually not 90 degree, so I would like you to check this with a
square tool on your machine.

There are no scratches, there is metal dust (shavings) inside! left
after threading in the factory the bolt holes in aluminum profiles
that make the chassis of the zing. This dust interferes with
electronics (short circuit), can get inside bearings of the motors
etc.

Therefore on our Zing there are no good parts ! We cleaned most of the
shavings but they are very small and it seems they found a way into
the motors too.

> Maybe customs agents took the machine out and caused the scratches.

No the machine was packed inside a bad that was not opened.

> All of this said we are here to help ,so please tell us what is the specific
> issue so we can get to the bottom of the issue and get you operational.
>


If your machine that you check and send me photos of is indeed good we
would like you to ship us new working Zing at your expense, you can
specify low price like 20$ so we would not have to pay customs taxes
again.

1. clean
2. and up to specifications (no bend parts, 90 degree parts are really
90 degree)
3. edges are not sharp
4. the length of the 3 aluminum profiles that make chassis of the zing
is the same length
(easy way to check: take 2 metal rulers 30cm each, take some
doublesided sticky tape and place one ruler on the zing, another ruler
on another size of the zing, use the double sided tape to stick the
rulers together. Now move the sticked rulers inside the machine, the
distance should be the same on the inside of the zing)
5. Also check the height of the cutter head, our machine had different
height one side than the other.

Otherwise if other zing machines have the same problems there is no
point in you shipping us a new Zing machine.


Feb 8, 2012 I write to [email protected]ACCugraphics.co

Hello, it's been 5 days since I got a reply from you.

Did you make photos, check quality of other Zing machines as I requested?
I would like to see the photos if the quality of other machines is OK?

Will KNKUSA replace my Zing machine with working one?
Else will KNKUSA give me my money back?


Feb 8, 2012 [email protected]ACCugraphics.co writes:

>Yes we will replace your KNKZING .You must pay for the shipping as we told you in >the past.
>Alternative is tell us the part you may need and we can ship you that part.
>If there is any particulate in side the machine it will not affect the performance.
>This has been tested with the thousands of machines. The boards are shielded and >the particles are too small to have an affect.

Shielded from metal dust that should not be there? Do you see any shielding? Are you plaing dumb or ....?
Since KNKUSA does not respond to this problem I contacted their distributors to ask do they know what crap do they sell:

[email protected]SkatKatz.com.au
createncraft.com

Both of them did not reply but instead forward my email to chad at [email protected]

Chad writes (or should I say is lying):

>We have now sent multiple Emails to try and come to an arrangement for you and >your zing.
>We have not received an answer. At this point,
>I'll gladly take any suggestions in regards to replacing / refunding you for your >machine.


I replied by simply writing:

Hello did you get my email?
You tell me you do no receive my emails when instead you do not reply !


So this is broken telephone or what? The comany KNKUSA is A SCAM!!!!
I wonder how their KNK MAXX 24" for 1,899.00 is selling, you can get a Roland 24 GX for that price come on peopple
do not trust your money to these lyers.
 

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Yeah, those appear to be some pretty rough manufacturing techniques. Looks like they cut parts out of stock aluminum with a hand held hack saw rather than a milling machine.

That should have never left the factory like that.

But, then again, you get what you pay for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yeah, those appear to be some pretty rough manufacturing techniques. Looks like they cut parts out of stock aluminum with a hand held hack saw rather than a milling machine.

That should have never left the factory like that.

But, then again, you get what you pay for.
Thats no excuse to be manufacturing these in garage somewhere in china and selling as professional craft cutter.

I could not find anything else close to 750grams of force and not wider than 24", given the fact youtube video look fine, and the device cuts even balsa wood (remember advertised *** all metal parts), I never expected it to be made like you say "hand held hack saw rather than a milling machine"
 

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We should all do our part in trying to reduce the things we purchase that are made in China. This would solve SO many of the world's problems.

But then again, everyone wants to pay the cheapest they can, regardless of the safety risks or quality.

China is one of the main reasons there are so many regulations stateside that make producing our items more expensive. It's a double edged sword.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hopefully you paid with a credit card, call your cardholder and start a dispute, you may get the charges reversed easily with the documentation you have
Yes I wanted to pay by creditcard, but [email protected]ACCugraphics.co said since this is international order I must pay by bank money transfer and as you know this is not reversible in any way. Looks like people from KNKUSA knows how to get money from international clients so that they could not get it back.
 

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Yes I wanted to pay by creditcard, but [email protected]ACCugraphics.co said since this is international order I must pay by bank money transfer and as you know this is not reversible in any way. Looks like people from KNKUSA knows how to get money from international clients so that they could not get it back.
There is no reason you can't be paid with a credit card as a "international order".

BIG RED FLAG! I would have shopped elsewhere.
 

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From browsing their web site it appears you are screwed either way, opening it voided the warranty and you are expected to pay shipping both ways for all warranty repairs.
Keep on them and maybe they will take care of you to avoid bad publicity
 

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Yep I understand it now, they tricked me to make bank money transfer.

So you feel that you were "tricked" by having to make a bank money transfer. Do you know how many international stolen credit cards are used everyday in the US? This is for the protection of the company. If you clearly look at the website you will see several advertisements of how they ship within the US at a low price. Originally, it wasn't something they wanted to do internationally. I see why now.

Again, your 3rd post about cutters and tearing into them

What is your deal???????

For others reading this take a look at what the Zing looks likes. Its not easy to get into this cutter its a minimal design with minimal buttons and mechanisms. Its easy to use and very fast.

All your pictures are just pictures, you already proven to us that you tampered with the cutter because you couldn't find a sticker. A warning sticker!! Seriously you need a sticker to stay don't touch or open. Do you have one on your stove? You didn't think "hey maybe i should check first"
Then you except to get your money back, money transfer or not. You are in for a rude awaking.

I hope these post get past on to every vinyl cutter dealer out there and you are black balled from every buying a new cutter. Build your own and leave us alone. This information is not helpful to KNK or any other customer you took pictures that could have easily been tampered with.

Do yourself a favor..OUTSOURCE!!

24" wide??? Where is this coming from??
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So you feel that you were "tricked" by having to make a bank money transfer.
Yes they agreed to take credit card until they found out it will be international order.

Do you know how many international stolen credit cards are used everyday in the US? This is for the protection of the company.
If they don't trust their banks it's their problem.

If you clearly look at the website you will see several advertisements of how they ship within the US at a low price. Originally, it wasn't something they wanted to do internationally.
Sure in Europe shipping up to 10kg is ~30Eur too.

I see why now.
Why?

Again, your 3rd post about cutters and tearing into them

What is your deal???????
Nothing really, I just want to make sure no other international customer has to be parted with ~600$ and not have anything in return.

For others reading this take a look at what the Zing looks likes. Its not easy to get into this cutter its a minimal design with minimal buttons and mechanisms. Its easy to use and very fast.
It is as fast as any other cutter :)

All your pictures are just pictures, you already proven to us that you tampered with the cutter because you couldn't find a sticker. A warning sticker!! Seriously you need a sticker to stay don't touch or open.
If company chooses that certain goods are not user serviceable or they choose to invalidate warranty then they put a sticker to say so.

Do you have one on your stove? You didn't think "hey maybe i should check first"
Yes there is a sticker on my stove :)

Then you except to get your money back, money transfer or not. You are in for a rude awaking.
I accepted either way:

-Money back
-They send me working unit (I could arrange cheaper not USPS shipping by post etc. back to them but not 300$)
-They send me parts that needs to be replaced.

I hope these post get past on to every vinyl cutter dealer out there and you are black balled from every buying a new cutter.
You can keep dreaming.

Build your own and leave us alone. This information is not helpful to KNK or any other customer you took pictures that could have easily been tampered with.
Please explain how can I tamper with picture of this nature? Make them in 3D and spend how much time on all this?
Remember the cutter was bought for our company, we are not a typical mom, dad or your aunt crafter. We have no intentions to take something apart we payed 600$ for if it would work and would not cost 300$ to ship it back.

Do yourself a favor..OUTSOURCE!!
Why thank you for your suggestion.

24" wide??? Where is this coming from??
What you did not understand? I was looking for a cutter that is 24" or smaller and could handle 500-600 grams of force. Since KNK Zing was 750 grams 14" cut width it was within our budget of 1000$ and we decided to buy it. But as you see that was bad decision, who could of thought they make it with again not my words "Looks like they cut parts out of stock aluminum with a hand held hack saw rather than a milling machine."

Since KNK USA was contacted and they received same pictures hi resolution plus explanation on why the cutter was taken apart, what is wrong with the parts.

They either do not respond or say "> Maybe customs agents took the machine out and caused the scratches."
Come on blind people you sell the Zing and don't know it is in sealed plastic bag? How can somebody cause scratches if it is packed in sealed plastic bag? How can they be do dumb that they mistaken metal shavings for scratches?
What do you see on the tweezers on sticky tape scratches????? Give me a break.....
 

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What you did not understand? I was looking for a cutter that is 24" or smaller and could handle 500-600 grams of force. Since KNK Zing was 750 grams 14" cut width it was within our budget of 1000$ and we decided to buy it. But as you see that was bad decision, who could of thought they make it with again not my words "Looks like they cut parts out of stock aluminum with a hand held hack saw rather than a milling machine."

*KNK MAXX 15″ (Refurbished) - KNKUSA.COM :: KNKUSA.COM

KNK MAXX 950g of cutting force and up to 600mm/sec cutting speed. 15"

*KNK Groove-e 13″ - KNKUSA.COM :: KNKUSA.COM

KNK e-Groove 950g of cutting force and up to 600mm/sec cutting speed. 13"

Free Upgrade from MAXX to EAGLE for $200 more

*KNK MAXX 24″ - KNKUSA.COM :: KNKUSA.COM
950g of cutting force and up to 600mm/sec cutting speed


I do not agree with your accusations of the Zing but a quick 5 mins on the KNK website I found some suitable cutters.

Trusting banks?? maybe you don't understand international credit card scams. Search the forums and look at the 1000's of dollars people have lost for fraud. A bank does nothing for you.
 

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-Money back (for voiding your warranty??)

They send me working unit
(I could arrange cheaper not USPS shipping by post etc. back to them but not 300$)
(for voiding your warranty??)

-They send me parts that needs to be replaced.
(for voiding your warranty??)

You can keep dreaming.
If Chad does any of these, its going to be a big thanks to you that other may experience more rigorous shipping practices.

bravo!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
*KNK MAXX 15″ (Refurbished) - KNKUSA.COM :: KNKUSA.COM

KNK MAXX 950g of cutting force and up to 600mm/sec cutting speed. 15"

*KNK Groove-e 13″ - KNKUSA.COM :: KNKUSA.COM

KNK e-Groove 950g of cutting force and up to 600mm/sec cutting speed. 13"

Free Upgrade from MAXX to EAGLE for $200 more

*KNK MAXX 24″ - KNKUSA.COM :: KNKUSA.COM
950g of cutting force and up to 600mm/sec cutting speed


I do not agree with your accusations of the Zing but a quick 5 mins on the KNK website I found some suitable cutters.
What words you did not understand:

for a cutter that is 24" or smaller and could handle 500-600 grams of force.

So what's your problem? KNK Zing was marketed as all metal, fast reliable cutter that can cut balsa wood. Nice videos on youtube etc.

Why I should spend 3 times more for KNK MAXX? I'm sure the Zing would be fine except the build quality is horrible, why you offer me something else when I chosen what I thought was good for the job.

Now if KNK USA would market it like this:

KNK Zing - made in china with a hand held hack saw instead of a milling machine, but cheap cutter only 399$ then perhaps I would buy KNK MAXX or anyting else.
[/quote]
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
If Chad does any of these, its going to be a big thanks to you that other may experience more rigorous shipping practices.
bravo!!!!!
What crap like this has a warranty in the first place? So why keep ignoring emails then?
Yes I hope chad not only sees this but many customers will avoid having any business with him in the future. And besides chad could explain here online why he never replied to my emails, why KNK USA never tried to see further than their pockets.

This is a non-standard customer complaint when something does not work in a cutter, this total fiasco for KNK USA and their cutters manufactured in china. No bloody soul shall pay 330$ for shipping something that can't be fixed.
All I know they can ask 330$ for return shipping totaling to 660$ both ways and send me crap like this pretending it is OK.

KNK USA never provided any photos or never replied that they actually have properly made cutters that they checked and compared to the photos I posted in this tread. Perhaps they are all blind ;/

Either they do not know what they sell (doubtful), and are afraid to tell the truth or the china manufacturer has very bad reputation. Either way no company should sell anything manufactured with uncleaned metal shavings inside and pretend they do not see any problems when a customer provided photos as proof. All I know I could get electrocuted when a short circuit occurs because of the metal shavings inside.

By the way if you are from KNK USA then say so, you are the only one defending KNK USA in this thread and it's purpose is not to make a post flood here.
 

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For the last time you opened up the cutter!!

Admit you voided your warranty and move on.

Rant and rave all you want you tore open your cutter under no advisement but your own

You have been *****ing about 2 cutters in other posts. It's getting old!

I am over it..
 

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I certainly am not with KNK or ACS....ask Sandy Mac...she probably is not a fan of mine BUT come on you have vented..had your say..move on a discuss with ACS privately...we get tired of your repeating. We get the message..you don't like KNK or ACS.. There are hundreds of units from ACS and KNK with satisfied users...
BTW kudos to Sandy Mc...she wrote the manual for ACS Eagle and it is the most clear, literate manual I have read
 

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Hi Smilem,

I just want to clarify something. We always do our best to support our customers and make sure they are happy. If a customer were to receive a machine that is not working, typically, they call to let us know. We will issue a call tag and have the machine replaced immediately. Anyone ordering outside of the US, would bear the responsibility of shipping. That did no happen, in this situation. This is honestly the first time we have received photos of a completely disassembled cutter, before communication has even begun. This is not an issue of us trying to enforce some silly rule, or rip off our customers. There is one fundamental reason for our policy on this: We can not determine what issues have been introduced when a machine has been opened / disassembled /tampered with.

When it comes down to it, the customer should always be happy; Good business is when both the buyer AND the seller can walk away from a transaction, satisfied. We will never take advantage of our customers, just to make sure our butts are covered. We have a reputation to uphold, and we wouldn't be able to maintain that good reputation, if this is how we handled ourselves.

Maybe we got off on the wrong foot, Smilem. I can empathize with you. I would love to come to an agreement where both you and us can walk away satisfied.

I've sent you a few emails now. Please feel free to respond at your earliest convenience.
 

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I can only add my personal experience...

Every had a friend comment that they tried this new place to eat and they really didn't like it... Then you went and tried it and it's now your go to place... It happens...

I can tell you I own a KNK Zing... I've never taken it apart... Never opened then case so I can't say what's inside... I can tell you the little cutter can cut... I've owned many a "craft" cutters and hands down after actually owning and using the others... While the Zing is priced a little more than the others in some cases a lot more... The Zing hands down is the best little cutter I've ever owned!...

The problem with international shipments is between here and delivery that box might travel thru 2 dozen peoples hands... So who knows what your Zing went thru to get from here to there...

I can tell you Chad has always been very responsive to my questions... To me it's pretty cut and dry from what I can see and it's standard internet practice... We might not like it but that is how business is typically done...

We buy a product we pay to have it shipped... We have a problem with the product... We have to pay to ship it back... The company should be all accounts pay to have us ship it back and I can tell you... For $300 to ship it back I don't think Chad is going to loose too much sleep over it if there was a problem with the unit... But you opened it and took it a part... He now has no idea if the problem was really the cutter or not in the first place... Now he just has to take your word for it....

That's the problem... So the solution is you ship it back at your own expense and he ships you a new one at his expense... Probably not totally fair but as a business man to me that is reasonable... To me it's a gift if Chad were to agree honestly... I doubt Chad has a $300 profit margin on these cutters.. So he for sure will be losing money to ship you a replacement at his dime once he gets your "defective" unit back... I know it sucks for you because you paid so much to have it shipped to now have the expense to ship it back but I really think you took on that responsibility by opening the machine up... While I agree a warning sticker wouldn't hurt... I don't think that alone absolves you from opening the unit... It's pretty common sense when you open something up electronic you are voiding the warranty... My cell phone doesn't have a sticker but I'm sure it's in the fine print somewhere just as it's posted on the KNK website opening the unit voids the warranty...

It sucks for you both but ask Chad to ship you a new unit and after the get's your old unit returned full assembled.... I really think that is the best you can hope for...

As for only taking bank transfers from international orders this is pretty standard business these days... Even when I import from overseas I have to pay by bank transfer... There is just too much fraud to take the risk these days with credit cards... It's just the way business is done these days when you are dealing with tangible goods... Now I will sell non tangible goods via a credit card still because I'm not out a significant investment of the product and shipping costs... But almost always tangible goods are done via Bank transfer....

Kevin
 
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