[brentonchad]

We have always utilized plastisol transfers but have been convinced by the results we have heard/seen in the forum to add JPSS inkjet transfers to our arsenal.

We have a epson 1400 with inkjetcarts HT pigment ink. We have ran some tests over the weekend. My question is after a wash how much initial fading should we expect on our shirts? Our first test we seemed to lose about 25-30% of the vibrancy. Is this normal? Or should we expect better results (based on some other threads I think we should)?

I think we have the right inks and right paper for the job - so what other factors should be considered when trying to increase washability?

 

[wormil]

I don't normally sell that stuff but 25% seems high compared to the tests I've done. I would've said about 10% on the first wash then very gradual after that.

 

[brentonchad]

have others experienced more fading on certain brands/blends? I have been able to do some more testing and we are getting minimal fading. I have noticed though that we are losing some "pop" to the colors. I think this is because initialy I see a glossy sheen created by the polymer - then after the wash that is gone. I assume this is common as well.

Chad

 

[Lnfortun]

To minimize fading the shirt needs to be post pressed for 6 - 10 seconds with teflon cover sheet then peel hot immediately. By doing so the ink/polymer is driven further into the fabric. It also minimizes the glossy finish.

 

[Girlzndollz]

Whew, that is alot of fading. What fabric blend are you using, and what brand of shirt?

Sometimes fibrillation can cause what will *appear* as a fade, but really isn't a true fade. One way to check if you have true color loss or fibrillation is to repress the washed shirt. From what I understand, if a shirt is suffering from fibrillation, once repressed, the colors are rejuvenated. One wash and dry is early for fibrillation, but I have had it show up on one or two right away... and get progressively worse from there.

As far as color loss, when I read the title to come in here, the answer on my mind was "None."... that is why seeing your color loss is weird. That is definitely not normal. If you used Ironall, haha, then I could understand that, I've seen it.

I switched to the JPSS specifically to be able to use whatever shirt I want and not suffer any color loss. I've used Durabrite ink and Canon regular photographic dye ink with JPSS, and did not have any fading - even with the dye shirts. So I started bleaching them. Still no color loss on either.

Your ink and paper should be fine, and in my testing, I learned that the shirt plays *just as big a factor* in the end results as the paper and ink themselves.

I tested about 12 shirts, Hanes, FOTL, Jerzees, Anvil, Gildans, and maybe another, I tested both the 100cottons and 5050's looking for the best looking shirts after wash tests, and the shirts were all over the board, that was using the same ink, same paper, same press, same washer, detergent, dryer and they were all washed and dried together.

It was an eyeful as to how important the shirt is to the overall process.

I do use the 50/50 blends, I tend to avoid the 100 cottons due to the fibrillation and wrinkles. The 50/50's always look nice, and I don't get any extra shrinkage out of them. (Even preshrunk cottons can suffer a little extra shrinkage, and it doesn't look nice in the image area.)

Here is a thread with pics of the bleached shirts for you to see the before wash and after about a dozen washes, alot of them in one cup of bleach:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/heat-press-heat-transfers/t47868.html

I agree with Luis that stretching the shirt after a hot peel and repressing seems to set the polymer further into the fibers. I also stretch the shirt prior to pressing, before I prepress to remove the moisture. I feel that opens the weave for it to accept the polymer, also increasing it's ability to embed into the fibers.

I think that Luis also does the stretch the shirt prior to the prepress, isn't that right, Luis?

 

[Lnfortun]

Whew, that is alot of I think that Luis also does the stretch the shirt prior to the prepress, isn't that right, Luis?

Yes I do pre stretch the shirt with upper platen lowered but not locked so that the shirt is held down but loose enough while I stretch the shirt. Then I lock the upper platen to prepress for 5 seconds to get rid of the wrinkle and moisture. When I press the transfer I use very heavy pressure to drive the polymer/ink further down between the knit ribs. Again post stretching and post pressing with teflon sheet cover after the transfer is peeled off.

 

[Girlzndollz]

Yes I do pre stretch the shirt with upper platen lowered but not locked so that the shirt is held down but loose enough while I stretch the shirt. Then I lock the upper platen to prepress for 5 seconds to get rid of the wrinkle and moisture. When I press the transfer I use very heavy pressure to drive the polymer/ink further down between the knit ribs. Again post stretching and post pressing with teflon sheet cover after the transfer is peeled off.

The same, except I don't lower the upper platen.
But most of my stuff is youth, I'd burn myself trying!

 

[BigBear]

...JPSS inkjet transfers ... Our first test we seemed to lose about 25-30% of the vibrancy. Is this normal?

That is not normal. While complete accuracy is imposssible without a spectrometer, our visual estimation was 5%, maybe 8% after the first wash.

There was very little additional color loss on wash tests 2-5. On tests 6-10 we started to notice a bit of degradation to the film, which caused a bit of color loss.

This is within normal parameters because the film is thinner than other heat transfer papers.

Best results required immediate hot peel and very firm pressure.

We only ran our tests with our inks, so I cannot give you a comparison with anything else.

 

[RedLine7000]

Hey Chad,

I just started using jpss a couple months ago. Same setup as you with a 1400 and HT's from Inkjet carts. I usually print on Jerzee 50/50 t's and sweats. I don't preheat. Ever. Use moderately heavy pressure @ 375 degrees with a really short dwell time. I'll press for approx. 10-12 seconds and peel right away. I've gotten dwell times as low as 6-7 seconds for a large transfer and as low as 3 seconds for a smaller crest size transfer, using a bit more temp. However, my instinct keeps me going with a little longer time on the heat. Don't want to cut it too close and lose shirts. I've posted results with pics in another post I did a few weeks back...maybe 6 or 7... on short dwell times and wash tests. The shirts with the shorter dwell times experienced less fading than the ones on the press for a longer time. I tested 10, 20 and 30 second dwell times. I have a theory on this that may be totally off base, but here it is. The polymer on the paper is needed to transfer the ink to the shirt, but isn't needed to keep it there. So you just want to plunk down your pigment and get outta there with all that sticky polymer. The ink will become one with the fibers of the shirt. Also, with no preheat, the shirt retains a little moisture that flashes to steam, mixes with the ink and helps adhere it to the fibers when it condenses after cooling. With the shorter dwell time, there was less of a polymer window right after printing. After a couple washes, the window is pretty much undetectable. As the dwell time increases, the window stays around longer. It seems the longer the polymer has time to mix with the ink, the more ink leaves the shirts with the polymer after washing. I'm not an expert by any means, it's just a theory. Anyway, as far as fading is concerned, I like a little because it makes the print look less like an "iron-on" and gives the shirt a comfortable lived in feel. Sorta like jeans or sneakers after they start to break in. Good luck! -Neil