[jmcgurren]

This is an image of a sample I received from the guys at AA. I washed it like 2 times and it still looked like new and then after the 3rd time I noticed a tiny bit of white ink peeling/flaking off in the areas that had a lighter amount of ink. I washed it again (4 times) and now it is sort of bad and I assume it will keep flaking more with each additional wash. I am just wondering what might have caused this. I know most will respond that it is either too much or little pretreat or the curing is off. What I am looking for is just an answer from end users about whether or not this happens often...? I just bought a Neoflex so I am a little concerned considering I sent this image to another person who just bought a Neoflex and they told me the same thing just happened to their sample (high rez image of a chick/coca cola ad) after a good few washes. Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

[kissfan76]

Hopefully your licensed by coca cola do use their images or even logo that dont just let anyone use it. I had a license agreement when I printed decals for model railroading. I was lucky enough that since I drink so much of their soda they gave me a license for free plus I was a small very very small business.

 

[jmcgurren]

I think you misunderstood the post. I didn't print anything with coca cola on it. It was printed by a company that I purchased a DTG printer from and then was sent to a person I know as a sample print to check the quality of the printing. I have no need for a license.

 

[allamerican-aeoon]

It is not normal. All NeoFamily are doing well with wash test. If 3rd and 4th washout we will not be in business also a DuPont. Wash out is not the printer. On any other printers too. It is ink and curing skill and pretreat skill. I am sure many NeoFamily will post here to comfort you with their success stories. Relax, you are in best shape.
Cheers! Beers are on me always.

 

[23spiderman]

this has nothing to do with the NeoFlex, and is a reminder why it's crucial that you practice, practice, practice on your pretreat method. i have shirts that i printed with another printer, and now my NeoFlex, that still look great after 30+ washings. sometimes, your methods are all correct, but small defects in the dye of the actual shirt can cause pin holes. it appears that your shirt had too much pretreat, BUT when i've seen this, more of the print comes off than just small areas. so i'm going to guess it's a mixture of pretreat and curing just like Peter said.

once you get your system down, you can print with confidence. i've only had one job where a customer said his print was peeling off, but guess what? he provided the shirts, and i didn't know they were Teflon coated to resist stains. i reprinted another shirt for him using Gildan, and it printed and washed great.

 

[tshirtsusa]

If I'm not mistaken, the original poster said that print is a sample straight from ALL AMERICAN.

So, if everyone's conclusion is that it's too much pretreatment, then is everyone saying that ALL AMERICAN doesn't know how to pretreat?

 

[23spiderman]

not at all. just that there are many variables in the dark shirt process, and in this case, the printer is NOT one of the variables. it would be interesting to know whether this shirt was pretreated by hand or buy machine.

 

[tshirtsusa]

I'm sorry, but I have never owned anything that still looked great after 30+ washes. Maybe our definition of "great" is quite different...

My first batch of tests with neoflex had about 20+ wash on them... I threw them away because the print didn't look good and more importantly the black shirt was extremely faded. The shirt itself no longer looked great.

I tell my customers that it'll look good for about 10 washes... Heat transfers about 2... White shirts without pretreatment definitely lasts longer. But I still don't think it looks "great" after that many washes. Maybe my washing machine is quite rough on the shirts? haha

Going back to the original thread, I think it's a bit sooner than normal. But I wouldn't be surprised if customers told me they washed about 5 times and it started to look that way. Not everyone washes their garment the same way anyways.

That's my neoflex, pretreatment technique, shirts I print on, and washing machine results... hope that helps.

 

[tshirtsusa]

I wonder if they used the new Viper pretreatment machine...

not at all. just that there are many variables in the dark shirt process, and in this case, the printer is NOT one of the variables. it would be interesting to know whether this shirt was pretreated by hand or buy machine.

 

[jmcgurren]

James.. When you say you wouldn't be surprised if your customers told you that happened to their shirts after 5 washes do you mean because you have noticed it yourself? I understand that this is supposedly a pretreat issue but if two samples that left AA have looked this way then it just makes me wonder how hard it is to pretreat correctly. Hopefully it isn't from the new viper, I just bought one!

 

[TPrintDesigner]

If this is a sample supplied by AA then you gotta ask why the ink is flaking off? If anyone should know how to prep a shirt for a Neoflex then AA should right?

What made it do this?

 

[jmcgurren]

I forgot to mention that for my production I plan on running the shirts through a conveyor dryer and then heat pressing them after... Justin Walker gave me this idea. I am hoping maybe it will help with the curing part even more.. Im open to Hearing anyones opinions on that though.

 

[23spiderman]

i'll post pics of some of my shirts later.

if my oven is already on because we are screen printing, then i will run my darks through followed by the heat press. however, i'm not sure it's worth the extra heat and cost to do this on a regular basis...so long as the end result is a properly cured shirt. it will add time to the process, so that has to be considered as well.

 

[tshirtsusa]

i agree what sean said about conveyer dryer

i have a friend who also does screen printing and dtg (not neoflex) and he said it's not worth putting it thru...

AA was originally screen printing company and then supplier. I'm sure they tried putting it thru and if it was any better, they would also offer a dryer.

 

[jmcgurren]

Yea I will do some tests but maybe I will just get a better heat press.. I have a 16 by 20 sunie that I was using for foil application for screen printing.. Not sure if it's really that great of a heat press for curing DTG considering I paid 400 bucks for it new and it comes from China.

 

[23spiderman]

here are some pics. i apologize in advance for the low quality. the white is "bright white" and not yellowish like the photo.

the pirate shirt was printed on my AnaJet in the fall of 2008 (the year is on the shirt), and it has been washed 25-30 times easily. the assassin was printed with my NeoFlex in the fall of 2011, and has been washed 10-15 times. there's no issue at all with the assassin and there's some cracking on the pirate, but no ink/color loss. i'm posting these to show that it isn't the printer that determines how well the shirt washes. we wash our whites in a temperature controlled "warm", and tumble dry, and our darks in a temperature controlled "cold", and tumble dry. i have a few customers who wash in "cold" and air dry their shirts, and they still look like new.

 

[jmcgurren]

here are some pics. i apologize in advance for the low quality. the white is "bright white" and now yellowish like the photo.

the pirate shirt was printed on my AnaJet in the fall of 2008 (the year is on the shirt), and it has been washed 25-30 times easily. the assassin was printed with my NeoFlex in the fall of 2011, and has been washed 10-15 times. there's no issue at all with the assassin and there's some cracking on the pirate, but no ink/color loss. i'm posting these to show that it isn't the printer that determines how well the shirt washes. we wash our whites in a temperature controlled "warm", and tumble dry, and our darks in a temperature controlled "cold", and tumble dry. i have a few customers who wash in "cold" and air dry their shirts, and they still look like new.

Thanks for the post Sean, those do still look good after 10 or so washes. I can tell it has been washed a good amount by the faded shirt. I washed the one I have which is also the assassin print on a warm wash and a normal dry setting... I assume most average people probably will wash this way. But I guess the pretreat must have had a part in the flaking on mine. Do you know if it was too much or too little pretreat? Or too hard to tell? I am new to DTG so I have never pretreated... going to have to do a lot of tests by hand and using the viper before I take on any jobs to make sure I have a method that works.

 

[23spiderman]

i printed that assassin myself, but my samples from AA all look good as well. so it was probably just a glitch. it's too hard to tell what went wrong since none of us know how it was pretreated. when you start practicing, you'll be able to go heavy, light, and just right to see the difference in how is washes. what you want is the least amount of pretreat to get a bright white and durability.

 

[JohnL]

It could have been a pretreat issue or it could have been the heat press temperature varying from the read out of the press.

It could be a combination of both, a little bit too much pretreatment in conjunction with the heat press temperature being a bit low.

The final variable could be a stale pretreated garment, one that has been pretreated prior and left to sit for too long. Sometimes we have shirts left over from shows and these may have been used.

In regards to curing with a dryer, if you have enough air flow it is definitely possible. We have tested and found that without the proper amount of air flow that the garments will not cure properly. They also require a little more time than curing via heat press.

 

[GraphicGuy]

I agree with JohnL. "It could have been a pretreat issue or it could have been the heat press temperature varying from the read out of the press"
As with anything, when doing hundreds, a couple might not come out correct for whatever reason.
It's the law of averages. It happens with everyone and everything.