[lburton3]

MMA-style large-print tees? I'm talking about the Affliction-style tees with the standard combination of wings, skulls, splatters, and flourish patterns that cover a majority of the shirt. I don't intend to be rude to the designers that are creating these shirts right now, because obviously there is a huge market for them in the 20-30 something male demographic... but I just feel like the whole style in general is just wayyy overdone, for two reasons:

First of all - these t-shirts are EVERYWHERE. There are countless t-shirt companies that have been using the same designs over and over, and they just throw them on the store shelves, without variety of any kind. In the past year or two it was cool because it was something new and different, but now I see the EXACT same designs everywhere I go, even Wal-Mart! Yes, that's right - I went to Wally World this weekend and literally half of the shirts they were selling had the same Affliction-MMA-style designs. It's gotten to the point where it seems like the market for these shirts is just completely overwhelmed and saturated. Does anybody else agree?

The second reason is this - I feel like all of these designs are just a compilation of vector designs that are available to the general public, and heavily used by some of these new age "t-shirt designers". I've seen many companies use literally the exact same vectors over and over for different shirts, while the only thing that is different is the orientation/size/color of the specific vectors that are used, like the skulls, wings, splatters, and flourishes. Seriously, how many t-shirts can you make with the exact same skull/wing/splatter combination and call yourself a clothing designer? I'm sure there are some companies who create these designs themselves, but I believe most of them just steal the designs directly from the free (or cheap) vector packs that can be easily found on the internet.

I've even heard that some of the newer companies around have used the EXACT same vector packs that Affliction uses - ridiculous!

What are everybody else's opinion on this? I am expecting this to be an open discussion - not only limited to agreeing or disagreeing with me. Thanks!

PS - Although this is my first post on the forums, I've been reading the forums non-stop for a while now, picking up various tips and advice from all of the helpful members here - thanks everyone!

 

[Solmu]

MMA-style large-print tees?

I've been sick of them from day one.

In the past year or two it was cool because it was something new and different

Not really: it's just the extreme version of a trend that started years ago. Then it was shoulder/chest prints on dress shirts, now it's all-over prints on t-shirts... for all that there are those two differences though, they're practically the same.

That's part of the reason I hate it so much: there hasn't really been anything new in men's fashion in over five years.

I feel like all of these designs are just a compilation of vector designs that are available to the general public, and heavily used by some of these new age "t-shirt designers".

That is what bothers me the most. I have been getting dangerously close to a "If you can't beat them, join them" attitude (haven't quite yet).

Seriously, how many t-shirts can you make with the exact same skull/wing/splatter combination and call yourself a clothing designer?

Maybe they're just trying to scientifically determine the answer to precisely that question

I believe most of them just steal the designs directly from the free (or cheap) vector packs that can be easily found on the internet.

To be fair, there's no reason to believe they aren't legitimately buying the vector packs. They're there for this kind of use. It's not creative, but it isn't illegal (or particularly immoral).

What are everybody else's opinion on this?

Like I said, I hate them. But that's the nature of fashion. There's always something to hate.

I do feel a little conflicted. It's all well and good to say "It sells, so sell what the market demands" - but to a certain extent the market demands what we tell them to demand. Trends are only market driven to the extent that they choose which of the options they are presented with they prefer. If we presented better options, maybe they'd take them.

Ultimately... it's not harming me. I don't wear them. My friends don't wear them. Even the peers I have in their target demographic don't wear them. They're everywhere, but not among people I actually interact with. Not to say it would really matter if they were - at the end of the day, it's just a t-shirt.

The ubiquity of Ed Hardy probably bothers me more. I've admired Don Ed Hardy for years - when I found out he had a clothing line I was actually excited. I thought it was cool that someone who actually deserved to see a piece of that pie was going to be cashing in for once (not just the knock-offs). The excitement rapidly dropped when I realised he'd basically licensed his name (and some of his crappier artwork I guess), it wasn't really his label. The label continues to disappoint, becoming more and more vapid with each passing year.

What can I/do you expect from mainstream fashion? There's a reason I don't involve myself in it

Really, if we're getting too bothered by it we're taking ourselves way too seriously. Again, it's just a t-shirt. It's an ugly t-shirt, but so what? People can wear whatever they want. And if people are going to pay handsomely to do that, ultimately that's to my benefit (raising the standard of just how much cash people will hand over for rags). Maybe the next trend will be something I enjoy, and I'll be thanking them for paving the way.

 

[Catbox]

but more power to affliction for hitting on a successful idea... i just wish people would come up with their own ideas...
I am working on a shirt with no design on it... i'm going to be rich... please don't tell anyone... thanks

 

[xbftees]

Yup, totally sick of them. Along with the sparrows, owls, deer, fleur de lis, etc. I never liked any of it from day one. It's not very creative or interesting. That said, it's what sells.

 

[proworlded]

Totally tired of all designs....but I sure like what the sales from them provide.

 

[mandobear]

Its funny because my printer who is a good friend of mine has his own semi successful mma shirt company and whenever I take a design over to him he ALWAYS tells me "hey man, why don't you do an all over print instead. Thats whats hot right now" and then I scream like a madman in the inside. He uses a lot of istock and go media vectors. I can't say anything to him because he provides me with great discounts sometimes even free if I print my stuff myself.

 

[ANKT]

i agree with you 100%, its hard to find a store these days without skulls, stars and etc. i just shop online :]

 

[TVS]

Personaly i think people are looking at this all wrong.............
Yes we all have our own views, but just think for a minute....... for what you think is good does not make a good sale items ? and so there in, there is an old saying we have, if its good for the goose then its good for the gander
In other words, weather you like something or not, you have to think about it with a business mind and not let your own feelings get the better of you or you`ll never make way in this world of printing.
If such tops are in all the major stores and shops as you`s all mention, then they must be selling and there in lies the business point...... they are selling and so its what the customers want, and thats were the money and sales are so join them dont let your inner self get the better of you.
Think about it ? and use it to your advantage not to your downfall.
If animals sell then do them, and so on, as i have personaly views and such thing but dont let it stop me from doing them, and i sell then good so all in all i`m making money from it.

 

[proworlded]

Exactly. Offer the products that sell...not just what you might like.

 

[DTFuqua]

Exactly. Offer the products that sell...not just what you might like.

See, I have a problem doing that. I'm not a sales person and if I don't think much of a product, I have a hard time selling it. Can you imagine how long I lasted as a used car dealer?

 

[Rodney]

It is interesting to see the trends make their way into bargain shopping stores like Target, Wal Mart, etc.

You can see foil prints, discharge, flock, etc designs in these stores at crazy low prices.

At the same time, the "bigger" brand names can still sell the same "style" of design for crazy high prices...and get it.

To me, it really highlights the importance of building a "brand" rather than the over saturation of a particular design style in the market.

If someone can get an "affliction style" design t-shirt in Wal Mart for $10, why would they pay $50+ for a "real" Affliction t-shirt?

My guess is that particular shopper probably wouldn't.

However, Affliction isn't going after $10 t-shirt shoppers, they are "branding" themselves as a higher end brand that people want to associate with. I don't think the shoppers are associating necessarily with the "tattoo style" designs, they are associating with the fact that Affliction is sponsoring MMA events, licensing celebrity names, getting "cool people" endorsements, and creating a "name"/"lifestyle" that people want to pay good money for and want to be a part of. They could probably put just the name on a t-shirt at this point and still get $25+ for it.

Some people buy into the brand, not the design.

Also, I think other companies could take advantage of the trend by using the power of their brand to create products that their "fans" would be interested in. Many do. If you go to concerts, you'll see many bands have similar "styled" designs that sell for $30-$40+ at the venue. Beer companies like Budweiser who have loyal customers create designs that fit the current trends to take advantage of the market and also to provide their customers with products that support the brand and fit their current tastes. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

There are some things that still set Affliction apart (the printing really is top notch, the bamboo line is pretty slick), but the overall skulls/wings/flourish style of design is something that just happens to be in for a certain demographic.

I think sometimes folks get caught up in the specific "design" without looking at the bigger picture of the "brand" that you want to build.

Of course, not everyone is out to build a brand. Some people just want to put out a few cool designs without worrying about "branding" themselves. To each their own.

We have a wide variety of t-shirt interests here in the forums (the printers that print the tees, clothing lines that have their own idea of success, retailers that sell the t-shirts in their stores, manufacturers that make the blanks, graphic designers that design the t-shirts, artists that sell the vector packs, consumers that buy the t-shirts), so we all have our unique takes on the phenomenon

Personally, as an avid t-shirt buyer of all types of genres, I don't mind the designs, except when the ones that only have "dark" themes. Even though my kids love pirates, after a while, all the skulls and demons and weaponry gets to be too much. The wings/crests/flourishes are fine, especially if it's done in some way that's unique or if it's for a brand I like. I'd totally rock an all over Willy Wonka cresty flourish tattoo design in a second

 

[TeddyRocky]

Learn from these brands, they know what they are doing.

 

[lburton3]

Okay, I totally understand what everyone is say supporting the idea of skulls/splatters/wings/flourishes, in the sense that it sells and it's "what the people are looking for", but first of all - it's only what the people are looking for (right now) because it's the only thing readily available to the general public right now. It's kind of a catch-22 - as most of us know. It's what is being designed and sold at the moment because it's been proven to sell, and it's been proven to sell by the big brands, that have already designed and sold it.

In my opinion, this is somewhat of a downward spiral. My outlook is this - you can get by on other people's ideas and trends, and you can make a decent living doing such, but in order to truly make it big, and I mean BIG, you have to be the innovator. You can't copy the trends that are showing up, or "jump on the bandwagon" - you've got to stick to what you believe in, and stick to what you love. You've got to pour your heart and soul into it, and invest everything you have (emotionally and possibly financially). If it's really good enough, then it will sell - and it will sell like crazy. Let's use Affliction as an example, since they're so popular right now. Before Affliction, the vintage/distressed/skulls/flourishes/splatters practically didn't exist in the t-shirt industry. One of their biggest attributes is sponsoring the MMA fighters - an industry that was practically in its infant stages when Affliction started, and was a huge risk in and of itself (which actually failed numerous times before hitting mainstream). Despite all of this, Affliction stuck with what they knew and believed in, and became unbelievable successful (from practically nothing at all), with other small "brands" jumping on their bandwagon and riding their success by creating similar tees, just to "fit in" to the current trend.

Now, for some reason everyone seems to believe that Affliction is some crazy phenomenon that would be damn-near impossible to duplicate, but that is not the case. Look at every huge clothing brand - they've all experienced similar fame and trendiness, and thus created their niche in the clothing industry - here to stay. The smaller brands that just piggyback the fame and success of the bigger brands by following the latest trend are here one year, gone the next. They'll NEVER make it in the clothing industry if they don't have something unique and original to offer, and if they are not creative and innovative. This applies to every industry, not just t-shirts and clothing.

...and for everyone who thinks I'm a big hater of Affliction because of their t-shirt designs, you've got it all wrong. You're telling me to follow what they're doing, because they are successful and they've "made it". Well that is exactly what I am planning to do. I am planning to follow them in the sense that I hope to create something from absolutely nothing, and hope to spark the next new trend. I never plan to piggyback on the success of another by jumping into whatever happens to be trendy. Even if there is success in this, it is short lived. That may be what some of you are looking for, but in order to make it big, you've got to give it your all and stick to what you believe in (as I said before). You can't be afraid to try something because of the idea that you might fail, because you can never succeed without ever trying at all.

I apologize if I've come off as cocky, but I guess I'm a pretty ambitious person, and as of late I guess I've also become quite passionate about the clothing/t-shirt industry.

 

[lburton3]

Exactly. Offer the products that sell...not just what you might like.

Funny you say that... If Affliction (or any other big-name clothing designer) did this, they'd never exist in the first place!

 

[lburton3]

See, I have a problem doing that. I'm not a sales person and if I don't think much of a product, I have a hard time selling it. Can you imagine how long I lasted as a used car dealer?

Haha same here. I think almost everyone who does something that they don't like to do or supports something that they don't believe in is in it for only a few reasons:

1) Money. (usually a steady flow, also).
2) Fear of change.
3) Fear of failure.

 

[Rodney]

Funny you say that... If Affliction (or any other big-name clothing designer) did this, they'd never exist in the first place!

You also have to realize that not everyone here is coming from the perspective of a "t-shirt designer" or a "clothing line".

For example, some of the people posting own "RETAIL" stores that sell various t-shirt lines. So the advice of "offer what sells" makes perfect sense coming from their point of view

As I mentioned in my post above:

We have a wide variety of t-shirt interests here in the forums (the printers that print the tees, clothing lines that have their own idea of success, retailers that sell the t-shirts in their stores, manufacturers that make the blanks, graphic designers that design the t-shirts, artists that sell the vector packs, consumers that buy the t-shirts), so we all have our unique takes on the phenomenon

 

[WiseGuy]

Hate it all you want, its what sells right now. I dont think afflicition, hostility, tapout, SKIN, hurley, famous, etc etc really care what you as a single person think, just that they are making millions with their clothing because most people liek their stuff. I personally like the style, I own a couple Tapout, SKIN, Death Clutch, and affliction shirts.

To each his own, but its hard to argue with success. But i agree, its about building a brand. I too have seen similar shirts at wal mart for like $8. I dont even know how they can make a profit for selling a shirt like that for 8 bucks, but evidently they can. Its about building a brand that stands for something other than being just a t-shirt if you want to sell them for $20+. For instance I bought my Death Clutch shirt because I am a huge brock lesnar fan and thats what he walks out in, even though I know its cost Death Clutch probably $8 to make the shirt, if that. Other people might buy affliction because they know when everyone else sees them in an Affliction shirt they know they paid $60 for it (same thing can be said for an ed hardy shirt). Same reason alot of people buy bentleys and lambos.

 

[PGD4996]

at first i thought it was kinda neat but it is WAYYYY overdone now and its getting irritating

 

[lburton3]

at first i thought it was kinda neat but it is WAYYYY overdone now and its getting irritating

That's what I was trying to get across in my original post, but for some reason everyone thinks that I've been hating on Affliction. It's not even the fact that it's overdone by Affliction - it's overdone by the other small brands that are piggybacking Affliction's success by copying their style, which results in an over-saturated market. I think somebody else already said this in the thread, and I completely agree with them.

Just for the record - I think Affliction is a rock-solid brand and they have a great thing going for them. I'm sure their style will evolve as the company grows, and I can't wait to see what they will come up with next.

 

[Catbox]

I like Skulls and Pirates and cool designs... it just cracks me up when people say... I've decided to make tshirts today... how do i make affliction style shirts... ?
I agree that giving the customer what they want is more important than what i think is cool... i'm just looking forward to a new breakout style or idea... and i'm working on it...lol