[BeTheBall]

My background is in business ... not art /design. I have a general idea on a design theme that may be sucessfull. Other than utilizing traditional methods (ei hiring a graphic designer) who may or may not be able to create a "winning" design for us, what other creative options are at our disposal?

I was considering creating a contest, at the local Art & Design school with prize money for 1st place. The value gained, in this approach, obviously being more distinct designs to select from at the same cost.

What parameters would I need to set?
I would want to own full rights to the imagery.

What format would the work need to be presented for judging to later make the conversion over to my printer?
The design will be applied by a screenprinter.

Thanks in advance.

 

[PositiveDave]

I don't think that you could reasonably claim the rights for anything entered in the contest. You could offer a production contract as part of the prize?
It just seems to be a predatory approach?

 

[BeTheBall]

Strange ... I've never thought of myself as a predator. I assumed that with full disclosure to all parties, this could be an acceptable (novile) approach. Any artist, whose work we would eventually draw from, would be compensated. Those that do not pan out are not compensated. Why should we pay the less talented artists for simply their time and efforts? I don't understand.

Should we contract with a design firm and simply "keep our fingers crossed" that the final work meets our standards and vision? How is contracting with a design firm less predatory in comparason? The only difference, between the two scenarios, is that in ours subpar work will not be rewarded. That's not a crime.

Am I way off base here? Do others, who have viewed this message thread, agree with Dave? I can take negative criticism. My thanks to Dave and the rest in advance for their honest opinion.

 

[revboyjames]

With most professional artists (who know how to set up designs properly for screen printing), contests have a negative stigma attached to them. Imagine if a designer were to start a contest for screen printers stating "Print my design on a t-shirt and then I will compare all the screen printed shirts I receive and the best shop will get the gig." With all the labor, time, and supplies, I'm not sure very many screen printers would be willing to enter that contest, with only the hopes to get the gig. I view contests for artists in the same way. Most good artists have websites or samples they can show you, and then you can pick one that you can see will do a great job. Hope this helps!

 

[PositiveDave]

No problem, the bit I would question is your ownership of design rights. I would expect that to remain with the designer and be negotiated away later?

 

[revboyjames]

It's a general rule that the designer/artist retains the copyrights to the work, but you can print and use the design for your clothing line or job. Most artists have an additional fee for exclusive rights or a licensing period for the piece. You can also ask about exclusive rights just for a particular product, like exclusive rights to be the only one who can use the art on shirts. Really just have to ask the individual artists.

 

[PositiveDave]

It's the old conundrum - out of the sale price of the shirt, what should go to each contributor.
There's wholesale & raw materials, design, printing, marketing, transport etc. As the printer, you want to minimise the others slice of the cake - and there's nothing wrong with that.
Design is a crucial step, probably more important than the others?
Predatory is probably the wrong word, I just don't think that the balance of risk and reward is evenly divided. If it works I'm sure that the rest of the forum would be interested!
How much are you thinking of offering as a prize?

 

[kimura-mma]

Why should we pay the less talented artists for simply their time and efforts? I don't understand.

Because goods, services, time and effort cost money. Regardless of how good or bad it may be in your opinion.

Am I way off base here?

Yes, you are way off base here. You are trying to justify why people should do work for you for free and then you just get to pay for whatever you want.

Do you go into a restaurant and say "Make me three meals, I'll sample them all and then pay for the one I like the best?" That's probably an unreasonable request that no restaurant would grant. Whatever you order, they will make and you will pay for. Regardless of how good it is.

I'm sure you will find people who will sign up for your contest. Some will do good work, some will do bad work. But if you truly want quality design work that is ready to go to a professional screen printer, hire a professional designer.

Should we contract with a design firm and simply "keep our fingers crossed" that the final work meets our standards and vision? How is contracting with a design firm less predatory in comparason? The only difference, between the two scenarios, is that in ours subpar work will not be rewarded. That's not a crime.

I'm afraid you have a bit of a warped sense of how to go about agreeing to and paying for design services. If you contract a design firm to create artwork, you should get exactly what you want.

 

[BeTheBall]

Thanks guys. You both gave great insight. I did not think about requesting to see an artist's samples to get a feel for talent. We are probably a bit paranoid in not making any crucial mis-steps along the way and were too conservative in our approach here. I apologize.

Can anyone comment on acceptable pricing (so that we don't get taken advantage of) ... required final formats to be delivered to the screenprinter ... or any other standaed FAQ we should be aware of during this process.

Thanks for bringing back "from the Dark Side"

 

[revboyjames]

Hi Barry,
No biggie, it's just something all of us artists have dealt with in the past, so I think we all have some emotion behind the issue. You know how sensitive artists are, lol.
To answer your questions, you will find a large range of prices with artists. It really depends on what style/level of detail you are looking for. Best to just get quotes from a few artists that you like and decide from there. Most screen printers prefer vector art in CDR, EPS, or AI format. Many screen printers can also handle highly detailed Photoshop work as well, but you will have to ask your printer what format that they want to receive the art as. Questions you might want to ask potential artists: Do you send a sketch for approval/review before creating the final? How much for exclusive rights (if you want them)? How many revisions am I allowed within the quoted price? Time frame for completion?
Hope this helps as well.

 

[ShirlandDesign]

Your not warped or going to the dark side. Since when did a for profit business have to apologize for wanting to minimize the cost of the commodities needed to manufacture a product?

But this business is a little different in that talent is not something tangible. Before Hello Kitty took off who would have thought it was brilliant? I am sure some of the people on this forum still don't, and yet it obviously sells. Which brings up another question, is talented work the same thing as financially viable work? Your are a business man, are you willing to make a profit on purely commercial junk?

I've sat in on lots and lots of client meetings where we would move around and size some clip art and type so the client felt like they actually designed something. It would be a vanity press except they didn't actually do any design work. Lots of money in that anyway, look at all the sites offering design it yourself features.

I say if you can run a business based on design contests then more power to you. This country is all about the natural selection process driven by free market adjustments.

One thing to consider is that you will be putting your reputation on the line with your clients or buyers that you can deliver quality product on time consistently. In my experience that kind of professionalism only comes from a professional.

 

[miktoxic]

and here comes the steamroller........

if i could say in my opinion the most cost effective way to get your designs done is to hire an artist who knows the ins and outs of print work. sit down with him/her and discuss your ideas and how and what you want to produce with it (i.e.shirts, brochures, signs etc.).

you could train yourself in computer graphics work and be done with it. this takes years and years of practice and learned skills. you should do this even if you are not going to be the primary designer in your firm. knowledge of what goes around you is pertinent to manage a shop.

that being said....most designers should give you at least 3 mock-ups of their designs based on your ideas. from there you thin it down and fanagle it to what you want. anything after that is more cost. clients sometimes think that they can come in and change things at the last minute without repute. no. big design firms charge thru the roof for changes and clients that expect it are considered iffy. if you don't want to do it yourself or until then the artist who does is your best friend. pricing is specific upon each one's contract or rate.