IC Light not bonding properly

4822 Views 24 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Lnfortun, Aug 19, 2019

mrneko

Discussion Starter · Oct 28, 2017

Hey everyone. I am new to using IC light so definitely appreciate any advise here. After wasting 30 IC light I still fail to get paper A and B to bond properly. I have read every thread regarding this issue and play around with all variables like different temperature, pressure, duration etc. The weird part is that the polymer didn't transfer properly on dark solid colour.

I have attached a photo of 2 different shirts (please see highlighted areas). So far every time I marry both papers there's always a random patch that's missing and it's always on the darker colour. I didn't bother to transfer any onto the shirts but did 2 anyway as examples.

I am thinking it could be my heat press. I measured the temperature and it's even throughout the whole platen. I thought it could be uneven pressure but I've tried pressing on different part of my heat press and again only the darker/brighter colours were affected (90% of the time). Another possibility is simply a bad batch of papers.

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Lnfortun

· #2 · Oct 28, 2017

mrneko said:
Hey everyone. I am new to using IC light so definitely appreciate any advise here. After wasting 30 IC light I still fail to get paper A and B to bond properly. I have read every thread regarding this issue and play around with all variables like different temperature, pressure, duration etc. The weird part is that the polymer didn't transfer properly on dark solid colour.

I have attached a photo of 2 different shirts (please see highlighted areas). So far every time I marry both papers there's always a random patch that's missing and it's always on the darker colour. I didn't bother to transfer any onto the shirts but did 2 anyway as examples.

I am thinking it could be my heat press. I measured the temperature and it's even throughout the whole platen. I thought it could be uneven pressure but I've tried pressing on different part of my heat press and again only the darker/brighter colours were affected (90% of the time). Another possibility is simply a bad batch of papers.

That is really odd because dark and solid color should transfer more so than lighter and gradient color.

I have been using the oid version of marrying the transfer sheets. I had better result using it than the new version.

1) Set the press temp to 210F
2) Set pressure to low (2 0r 3 in Hotronix)
3) Close the press but not locked while the press is preheating to set point to preheat the bottom platen
4) At set point open the press
5) Lay the transfer on the bottom platen with the A sheet on the bottom
6) Press for 10 seconds
7) Open the press
8) Rotate the transfers 180 degress
9) Press for another 10 seconds
10) Open the press
11) Wait 3 to 4 seconds
12) Peel the top layer diagonally starting from one of the corners with even motion keeping the top layer as close to the bottom platen as it is being peeled

The top layer paper literally will almost jumps off the bottom layer as it peels without any effort.

If you still have issues it could be a bad batch.

Very light and gradient colors including photo must be converted to very high resolution RGB color halftone to prevent dropout.

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mrneko

Discussion Starter · #3 · Oct 28, 2017

Lnfortun said:
That is really odd because dark and solid color should transfer more so than lighter and gradient color.

I have been using the oid version of marrying the transfer sheets. I had better result using it than the new version.

1) Set the press temp to 210F
2) Set pressure to low (2 0r 3 in Hotronix)
3) Close the press but not locked while the press is preheating to set point to preheat the bottom platen
4) At set point open the press
5) Lay the transfer on the bottom platen with the A sheet on the bottom
6) Press for 10 seconds
7) Open the press
8) Rotate the transfers 180 degress
9) Press for another 10 seconds
10) Open the press
11) Wait 3 to 4 seconds
12) Peel the top layer diagonally starting from one of the corners with even motion keeping the top layer as close to the bottom platen as it is being peeled

The top layer paper literally will almost jumps off the bottom layer as it peels without any effort.

If you still have issues it could be a bad batch.

Very light and gradient colors including photo must be converted to very high resolution RGB color halftone to prevent dropout.

After the 10th attempt or so I started doing double press but at 20 second interval. That's when I thought the pressure was uneven so I did that. However, there are still 20 -30% that didn't marry properly. I'll reduce it to 10 seconds and try again.

Apart from that, every other steps were exactly what I did. There were a few times when I increased the pressure to a point where I literally had to lift my body and apply body weight to close it but there were polymer that didn't bond with A sheet. I purposely did that to see if any polymer would stick onto areas that had no toner but surprisingly it didn't.

Quite disappointed for now but I'll order a new batch of papers to try again. I've read a lot of good reviews about this paper.

rtarh2o

· #4 · Oct 31, 2017

I do a lot of IC light, my method is
250º light pressure under a silicone pad (heavy pad)
I leave a corner of the IC exposed (cut a corner off of the silicone pad so a corner of the paper was left exposed)
Press 12 -15 seconds then I grab the exposed corner of IC and peel slowly but immediately while still under the silicone pad lifting the silicone pad with the paper.
This method works flawlessly for me nearly every time.

If this method doesen't work one consideration is this, I have started doing Koncert T's (press it similarly but 20 seconds and remove from the pad to peel)
After doing maybe 5-600 successful transfers over the summer I ordered 200 more sheets a few weeks ago and it wouldn't peel successfully using the exact same methods.
I couldn't figure it out so ordered another 200 sheets and they worked fine....
No explanation for that other than maybe I got bad batch?
Rusty

Reactions: 2

mrneko

Discussion Starter · #5 · Oct 31, 2017 (Edited)

rtarh2o said:
I do a lot of IC light, my method is
250º light pressure under a silicone pad (heavy pad)
I leave a corner of the IC exposed (cut a corner off of the silicone pad so a corner of the paper was left exposed)
Press 12 -15 seconds then I grab the exposed corner of IC and peel slowly but immediately while still under the silicone pad lifting the silicone pad with the paper.
This method works flawlessly for me nearly every time.

If this method doesen't work one consideration is this, I have started doing Koncert T's (press it similarly but 20 seconds and remove from the pad to peel)
After doing maybe 5-600 successful transfers over the summer I ordered 200 more sheets a few weeks ago and it wouldn't peel successfully using the exact same methods.
I couldn't figure it out so ordered another 200 sheets and they worked fine....
No explanation for that other than maybe I got bad batch?
Rusty

Thanks for sharing your method! So basically you increase the temperature and sandwich the papers with silicone pads to distribute the pressure evenly. This could potentially save me from buying a new heat press.

How thick is the silicone pad that you are using? I need to find out where to get it since I'm in Australia.

I have pretty much confirmed that the pressure on my heat press is uneven. Yesterday morning, I cut the artwork into 8 small pieces and married them using my label press - they all bonded nicely.

Lnfortun

· #6 · Oct 31, 2017 (Edited)

I started that process long time ago on the old version. It helped minimize polymer speckles. The new version A sheet literally jumps off the B sheet when peeling it off. The new version is much easier to use and no speckle issue. I did not mention the mat and pdf file earlier because you were not having speckle issue.

If you are interested click the link below to down load the PDF file. The silicon mat was Silpat but you can get cheaper material from Grocery, department or bakery supply store. Get it from Amazon and Ebay also.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/150130d1431711222-magic-touch-usa-imageclip-laser-light-tips.pdf

Here are some at Amazon and ebay. Any of the lower priced will do. Just make sure there are no raised logo on both sides.

https://www.amazon.com/silicone-baking-mat/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:silicone baking mat

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=silicon+baking+mat

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mrneko

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 31, 2017 (Edited)

Lnfortun said:
I started that process long time ago on the old version. It helped minimize polymer speckles. The new version A sheet literally jumps off the B sheet when peeling it off. The new version is much easier to use and no speckle issue. I did not mention the mat and pdf file earlier because you were not having speckle issue.

If you are interested click the link below to down load the PDF file. The silicon mat was Silpat but you can get cheaper material from Grocery, department or bakery supply store. Get it from Amazon and Ebay also.

http://www.t-shirtforums.com/attachments/150130d1431711222-magic-touch-usa-imageclip-laser-light-tips.pdf

Here are some at Amazon and ebay. Any of the lower priced will do. Just make sure there are no raised logo on both sides.

https://www.amazon.com/silicone-baking-mat/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:silicone baking mat

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=silicon+baking+mat

Thanks again for the useful information. I'll get the silicone pad tomorrow. I might have gotten the old version of IC Light. I saw a video on YouTube and found that the new version doesn't have that glossy layer on imaging sheet. Mine has it. I only ordered 30 so they didn't come in their original packaging .. plus it's my first time using IC Light so I wouldn't be able to tell.

into the T

· #8 · Oct 31, 2017

mrneko, keep us updated with your progress

i'm thinking of picking up a laser for this paper

Lnfortun

· #9 · Oct 31, 2017 (Edited)

2

mrneko said:
Thanks again for the useful information. I'll get the silicone pad tomorrow. I might have gotten the old version of IC Light. I saw a video on YouTube and found that the new version doesn't have that glossy layer on imaging sheet. Mine has it. I only ordered 30 so they didn't come in their original packaging .. plus it's my first time using IC Light so I wouldn't be able to tell.

Yes the old version A sheet has glossy finish. Also the print on the back of the B sheet is printed diagonally. That was the first iteration which was very finicky and had polymer speckle issue. Later on that was changed to horizontal but still hot peel off the shirt. The latest is matte finish A and cold peel off the shirt. I used the same settings in marrying the papers except I turned the sheets 180 degrees after pressing for 10 seconds then press again for another 10 seconds and I don't use the silicon mat anymore. Regardless whether it was old or new I never had issues like you had. The paper transfer in general is prone to dropout when the art work is very light, gradient and photo but not with dark and solid color. My remedy was to convert the artwork to very high resolution RGB color halftone.

What I liked about the new version is no polymer speckle and the cold peel aspects and does not leave a lot of toner behind on the A sheet. The old version splits the toner between the A sheet and the shirt. The color is vibrant and lots of options when using creative artwork.

The photo artworks were embroidery mockups. Zoom the photos 300% to 400% and you will see the embroidery effetc. By the way I ran out of the new version Of ImageClip when I was doing the shirts in the photos. I had orphaned of real old version B sheet and some extra ImageClip laser Dark A sheet. I used they as I would had used the new version to finish the order. I did use the silicon mat to avoid speckles. It weeded slightly different but it was fine. Cold peel off the shirt successfully. I can't tell the difference between the old and the new version on the shirts. I believe the Imageclip Laser Light and Imageclip Laser Dark A sheets are the same.

When you get successful marrying and pressing it on the shirt here is something you need to be aware of with Imageclip Laser light. I always repress the image covered with parchment paper then restretched for softer hand and durability. But I noticed after 24 hours before the shirt is washed the transfer became brittle and cracks when stretched. Pressing it again covered with parchment paper then stretching hard while warm the image became soft again and did not crack.

I did not notice it before. I always check the test shirts after they are washed and shirts were fine. I always wondered why the image did not crack after wash. Now I believe the wash/dryer cycle made the brittle polymer soft and pliable.

So instead of repressing immediately after peel wait 24 hours then do the repress and stretched hard before giving it to the customer.

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asipo123

· #10 · Nov 5, 2017

rusty what brand of image clip do you use thanks steve

rtarh2o

· #11 · Nov 7, 2017

Steve, not sure what you mean by brand of image clip?
I use Image clip light and Koncert T's
I have been using the newer Image Clip light since it came out and it is better than the old version so make sure you try the new version.
Rusty

asipo123

· #12 · Nov 7, 2017

is it neenah transfer paper or joto transfer paper . where do you get it from thanks for replying steve

into the T

· #13 · Nov 7, 2017

the name of the paper is 'image clip laser light' made by neenah paper

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mrneko

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 15, 2017

Some update as promised. The new papers arrived and the previous batch was indeed the old version.

Now that I have the latest version, it seems like the biggest issue is with my heat press. The pressure is really uneven so the only way to make it work for me is to place the imaging sheet on top of transfer sheet and press them twice (rotate 180 degrees at 15 seconds interval as recommended by Luis). I am using medium pressure as light pressure didn't work for me at all. Even so, there are still random dots (dropout?) that fail to bond properly. I'll get a Silpat to see if that helps.

Having said that, there are several artworks that wouldn't work no matter what (huge patches on dark solid colour). One of them is the popsicle artwork. I wonder if anyone is interested in testing that artwork with their paper?

rtarh2o

· #15 · Nov 15, 2017

Do you have a pad on the bottom of the press?
I have several presses, two good ones and a cheaper one that was given to me, the cheaper one doesn't work well, haven't played with it much but now I think about I suspect the pad on the bottom is thinner and harder which might cause some of the problem

mrneko

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 15, 2017 (Edited)

rtarh2o said:
Do you have a pad on the bottom of the press?
I have several presses, two good ones and a cheaper one that was given to me, the cheaper one doesn't work well, haven't played with it much but now I think about I suspect the pad on the bottom is thinner and harder which might cause some of the problem

Yes I have a pad for the bottom platen. Might get a new one if that's the case.

Do you mind to do a test transfer for me? Willing to pay for the papers. I just need to find out whether the issue is with the artwork before I move on to buy more things .. potentially a new heat press. I have wasted close to 150 papers by now.

rtarh2o

· #17 · Nov 15, 2017

Not a problem, send me the art work, I am making shirts tomorrow so will try it.
send it to
[email protected]

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Lnfortun

· #18 · Nov 15, 2017 (Edited)

mrneko said:
Some update as promised. The new papers arrived and the previous batch was indeed the old version.

Now that I have the latest version, it seems like the biggest issue is with my heat press. The pressure is really uneven so the only way to make it work for me is to place the imaging sheet on top of transfer sheet and press them twice (rotate 180 degrees at 15 seconds interval as recommended by Luis). I am using medium pressure as light pressure didn't work for me at all. Even so, there are still random dots (dropout?) that fail to bond properly. I'll get a Silpat to see if that helps.

Having said that, there are several artworks that wouldn't work no matter what (huge patches on dark solid colour). One of them is the popsicle artwork. I wonder if anyone is interested in testing that artwork with their paper?

If you think your press has uneven surface of upper platen check the flatness. Let the heat press heat up to setpoint. Bowing or warping will show more when the platen is hot. Use a metal yard stick or something metal with straight edge. The longer the better so it will have wider point of contact at each end. Use oven mitt to hold the yard stick or straight edge. Place the edge perpendicular to the surface of the upper platen. If you see daylight between the edge of the yard stick or straight edge and the surface of the upper platen then it is either bowed or has wavy surface. Check several places of the upper platen.

The upper platen is free floating so it will gimble to compensate and even the pressure when it is closed and locked. Check that also. Use pull test. Place four thick pieces of paper, 2" X 3" or longer so they stick out when clamped. Adjust the pressure so that when the paper is pulled it will have resistance and release without tearing. Do one corner to adjust the pressure with the upper platen closed and locked. Once the pressure is set place one piece on each corner. Close the press and lock it down. Pull each paper. If the resistance the papers have big different resistance between each other or releases easier than the rest or any paper tears the pressure is uneven.

If it is uneven you can try using teflon pillow as cushion to even the pressure on the transfer.

Besides Teflon pillow, here is something you can try with the Silicone mat I use to do it with the old version:

1) Place the silicone mat on the lower platen.
2) Press it for 10 seconds to preheat it. Skip to 3 the next transfer(s) you do.
3) Lay the A sheet facing up on top of the mat and B sheet facing down on top A sheet.
4) Press for 10 seconds.
5) Open the press.
6) Rotate the transfers 180 degrees.
7) Press for 10 seconds.
8) Open the press.
9) Place the transfers immediately under the mat.
10) Press for 5 to 10 seconds.
11) Open the press.
12) Peel the B sheet and the mat diagonally with slow, smooth and steady motion while keeping the B sheet and mat close to the lower platen.

The mat will serve as cushion and compensate for some uneven pressure on the transfers.

Send me the file. I will be glad to test it for you. I doubt it's the file though because you were saying you were getting dropout with dark color. Dropout occurs if the artwork color is very light, gradient or photo. Convert the image to high resolution RGB halftone. Use 4 pixels for dot size. That is what I do with that type of artwork.

I read a post that the image is printed twice to darken the image to avoid dropout. Printing twice will make the image very dark. Besides it will cause registration issue.

Instead of printing twice use Photoshop Multiply feature so the darkness can be controlled. Then print the image once. See the attached file.

Edit: The pdf file has been changed. The new file was posted on my other post below.

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asipo123

· #19 · Nov 15, 2017

i have seen the thread to use silcone baking matt and ordered one hav'nt tryed it yet sounds like that will work steve

Lnfortun

· #20 · Nov 15, 2017 (Edited)

I added Overlay in the PDF file. Overlay will enhance vibrancy. Use Multiply or Overlay or both depending on desired effect. Attached is the new file.

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