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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Attached please see a brother sample that was printed by Brother at there Memphis office were the GT 782 proto type is being used last week.
After two washes and dries I will be canceling my PO that I gave them till this printer proforms like the Wonderful GT541 does.
Before 2 washes on the left and after on the right.
I'm glad I did not buy this printer yet for $55,000.

They still need to do a lot of work. I am not happy to make this post.:mad:
 

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Could it be that the shirt wasn't pretreated/cured properly? I always tend to see sample shirts that turn out like this because either the machine operators are inexperienced, or they are rushing to pump out samples, so they don't take the time to do things right.

I would hate to think that the ink itself can't hold up...:(
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Could it be that the shirt wasn't pretreated/cured properly? I always tend to see sample shirts that turn out like this because either the machine operators are inexperienced, or they are rushing to pump out samples, so they don't take the time to do things right.

I would hate to think that the ink itself can't hold up...:(
They were told up front that I would be wash testing my test design. $55 grand 0r $10 Grand
No excuses. These folks know what they are doing and they have till March when shipping starts, to make it right and hope they do.

Anyone that wants my design to test wash thier own printer may have it. I'm also test washing Versacam SP300 at the same time with the same pattern.
 

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They were told up front that I would be wash testing my test design. $55 grand 0r $10 Grand
No excuses. These folks know what they are doing and they have till March when shipping starts, to make it right and hope they do.

Anyone that wants my design to test wash thier own printer may have it. I'm also test washing Versacam SP300 at the same time with the same pattern.
I guess you are right on that one. BTW, could please post your test results for the Versacamm when you are done? I just picked up a VP 540 (hasn't been shipped yet) and am interested in your results. What type of vinyl material did you print on, was it the solutions opaque?
 

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Your wash test shows just how important the pretreating / curing process truly is. Without knowing how the shirt was pretreated or cured, it would be hard to blame the printer only. So much of printing white ink has to do with a combination of the printer, the chemistry (ink and pretreatment), the operator and the curing process. This is why there are a decent amount of people that have posted that they felt they needed to print white ink and after getting into it first-hand, they switch to Dual CMYK. Just my opinion.

Mark
 

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I guess you are right on that one. BTW, could please post your test results for the Versacamm when you are done? I just picked up a VP 540 (hasn't been shipped yet) and am interested in your results. What type of vinyl material did you print on, was it the solutions opaque?

I currently use the Roland VersaCamm SP300 on Solutions Opaque and have done extensive wash tests to quantify quality and longevity.
Here's what I uncovered:
1. Vivid color saturation and hues. I don't use the recommended profiles. They gave poor quality saturation. I used VersaWork's garment profile that the rip comes with, "TTH" in think is the name of the profile.
2. Wash tested in Hot / Warm, Warm/ Warm, Hot / Cold and Warm / Cold. I did not turn garment inside out and washed with other clothes. I did not "Baby" the item.
3. Dryer settings of medium and low settings were used

My conclusion:
Hands down BETTER than any inkjet transfer from Epson and Hewlett Packard. Colors did not have any perceivable fade, cracking or lifting after 25 washes (testing is on-going). I attribute the very good results from three main things: Eco Solvent inks of the Roland VersCamm, Solutions Opaque transfer material and exact heat transfer application using GeoKnight Swinger @ 305 degress. Any deviations from above resulted in unacceptable results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Very disappointing results indeed especially compared to the really good wash results you posted from the show.
Yes the show results were much better. Now that I am requesting my test design to be printed the results are not looking good.

Hwy 101
The versacamm test has been washed 5 times now and look great. Will post pictures all results tomorrow after 10 or 12 washes.
 

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I find it really interesting also. I would also say bad pretreatment or bad curing also too, but then again the ink sets they are using have not been out at the market yet, and I have to wonder whether it is pretreatment or the durability of the new ink. That is the thing that will be interesting to me once it hits the market. With DuPont they are on their third round of inks, with major improvements. This will be brothers first white ink. It will be interesting to see if they got the formula perfect on the first try. I guess we will see once they start shipping machines :) I would hope that they have a pretty good system and inks for the price of the printer.
 

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I think this goes to prove that just because you have a Brother with white ink it will no longer be a 'push button and print' operation like the GT-541 was. Hopefully some brother reps can shed some light on what happened with this print. Not good advertising for a $50k machine.
 

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I totally agree zhenjie :) Thats the thing when you add white ink to a machine. When I was looking for my machine, I had looked at the brother and had asked them if they had a plan to make a white ink machine in the future. At that time, I think it was about 2 years ago when I spoke to them, they had told me that they would come out with white ink printing, when it worked as well and easy as the current model. I just hope that people understand it is not the same type of printing, as straight cmyk. This will be very interesting as there reputation is built on ease of use, but anyone buying will need to understand that there is more to it with white ink. I think their machine is probably good as long as the person buying understands the process of printing with it, although I dont know how their inks work as the white is a brand new ink. Its very possible that the person that printed these prints was not used to the pretreatment process well and that has to do with the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Bobbie & Others
The man I worked with was Harry Kira.
It is my understanding that he is in charge of the R&D Group for this project...I will be speaking with him on Monday to request a new sample. of course mistakes do happen.
I really want to buy this new printer, but not until it is ready. It is heroic to be a pioneer, but most pioneers retreat with arrows in their butts.
The good news is Brother is big enough to stand behind this printer if it takes the same course as the other White ink printers have in this industry.

The test samples on in the washer right now for the 6th wash.
 

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Bobbie & Others
The man I worked with was Harry Kira.
It is my understanding that he is in charge of the R&D Group for this project...I will be speaking with him on Monday to request a new sample. of course mistakes do happen.
I really want to buy this new printer, but not until it is ready. It is heroic to be a pioneer, but most pioneers retreat with arrows in their butts.
The good news is Brother is big enough to stand behind this printer if it takes the same course as the other White ink printers have in this industry.

The test samples on in the washer right now for the 6th wash.
Good, don't give up yet. Another membere posted wash samples from this machine and his, after 6 or 7 washes, looked identical the half that wasn't washed.
 

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Just like any other printer, it is important to understand that Brother will go through some growing pains as well when it comes to white ink. They beta tested the GT-541 for over year before it was released and they made changes to the first one that went out before they came up with the one that is currently being sold. For those that don't know, the "5" in "541" means it is the 5th version of the printer. At least you can say that they still have not released their printer yet... so there are 10-100s of upset people out in the market with the printer.

The issue in this case is most likely the pretreatment process. The reason why I say this is because the samples that were passed out at SGIA had a good wash test from what some people posted. Thus showing the chemistry between the ink and pretreatment can work if done properly. If you look closely at the pictures posted above, you can see where there is a line going down the sample that was the worse part of the wash test. This will happen with the Dupont pretreatment if you don't put enough down (don't get your passes close enough) or you put too much down (you overlap your passes too much). The other parts of the shirt that the ink did not hold up on could either be the curing of the pretreatment or the curing of the ink. Ultimately, it was probably not their best product to release to you and sounds like the same thing that has happen in the past with every other printer as well.

I know that Brother stated that they are trying several different ways of pretreating a shirt and still has not released any information about their pretreatment process. So they probably are still refining this process. The last I heard the printer was not going to be sold till the end of the 1st quarter. So they still have about 4 months to work some things out.

Ultimately, time will tell.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Good, don't give up yet. Another membere posted wash samples from this machine and his, after 6 or 7 washes, looked identical the half that wasn't washed.

I think that was me after I did a wash test after the SGIA show in Atlanta.. That one looked Ok but not great after 16 washes. This one is a different story.
If it was someone else I would like to see it. Please bump the thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just like any other printer, it is important to understand that Brother will go through some growing pains as well when it comes to white ink. They beta tested the GT-541 for over year before it was released and they made changes to the first one that went out before they came up with the one that is currently being sold. For those that don't know, the "5" in "541" means it is the 5th version of the printer. At least you can say that they still have not released their printer yet... so there are 10-100s of upset people out in the market with the printer.

The issue in this case is most likely the pretreatment process. The reason why I say this is because the samples that were passed out at SGIA had a good wash test from what some people posted. Thus showing the chemistry between the ink and pretreatment can work if done properly. If you look closely at the pictures posted above, you can see where there is a line going down the sample that was the worse part of the wash test. This will happen with the Dupont pretreatment if you don't put enough down (don't get your passes close enough) or you put too much down (you overlap your passes too much). The other parts of the shirt that the ink did not hold up on could either be the curing of the pretreatment or the curing of the ink. Ultimately, it was probably not their best product to release to you and sounds like the same thing that has happen in the past with every other printer as well.

I know that Brother stated that they are trying several different ways of pretreating a shirt and still has not released any information about their pretreatment process. So they probably are still refining this process. The last I heard the printer was not going to be sold till the end of the 1st quarter. So they still have about 4 months to work some things out.

Ultimately, time will tell.

Mark
Mark, when time tells, my cash will fly, and not until. If they pay for Beta test services that will be another story.
 

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I think that was me after I did a wash test after the SGIA show in Atlanta.. That one looked Ok but not great after 16 washes. This one is a different story.
If it was someone else I would like to see it. Please bump the thread.
So after 16 washes is there a noticeable difference between washed and unwashed?
 

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Hello Dave

I know Brother does commercial wash tests with their printers
I find it hard to believe that they put something on the market that did not pass commercial grade wash test

I bought the anajet printer and find it totally inadequette. I have worked in the commercial fashion industry for 25 years. Commercial wash tests ( not for shinkage as someone really ignorant commented on but for colorfastness are a test of repeated washing and ink dicipation
Brother does these tests
Anajet does not even know what these tests are.

Brother runs flawlessly
Anajet is a complicated poorly planned divice however what does it matter how complicated it is to maintain and run if the ink does not pass commercial grade wash tests

Pure digital printing without white ink doesnt even stay in past the first wash to acceptable levels
I have been using brother for months
Seen their wash test results for colorfastness on colors only
Perhaps before you dismiss the white ink printer make sure you request to review commercial grade wash test results

Best of luck
DesignPilot
 
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