[InternationalJay]

Hey all, I just purchased a Swingman 20d a few days ago down in LA... Today while looking over the inspection sheet i noticed that the "ETL Sticker Included" box was unchecked as well as "Rubber Feet Included"...

I called Hix and spoke w/ Ray; he tells me that the ETL sticker is not applicable as it is only for overseas shipments, and that the rubber feet are not available for this model. I told Ray that the instruction manual mentions installing the included rubber feet. At this point he looks up the manual and says hey youre right, and the ETL shouldve been included.

Upon further prodding, Ray tells me that the ETL certification is done by the government, but its not economically feasible to spend $10,000 to have the ETL tell Hix what they already know (that their product works). He says the certification is not important. I asked why it was mentioned at all if that were the case. He told me he would look into it. Any further questions I had were kind of blown off with "I'll look into it.."

My questions for the forums are... Are your products ETL certified? (there should be a sticker over the plug-in)... Is this standard procedure w/ hix?... What kind of company would sell uncertified products at full retail price?... Does this pose a safety hazard in any way? What exactly is the ETL? ( No one I spoke w/ could answer that one).. Is this legal?

At this point I'm very dissatisfied w/ Hix's level of customer service and apparent negligence and/or greed... I dont have enough disposable income to drop $1500 after taxes on something that's either still in testing or prone to malfunction. I havent actually used the press yet (the whole socket thing, electrician scheduled for today) and it probably works as well as people say other Hix presses do, but this has definitely made me second guess the company in its entirety...

What do you guys think?

**Update: Ray called me back, he's gonna send the rubber feet that shouldve been included! And ETL is Electrical Technology Laboratory, unfortunately he had no contact info**

 

[badalou]

Mine just say UL approved I have the Mighty press.No ETL label of any sorts.

 

[Solmu]

I didn't know anything about this previously, so any information here is just from a shallow google search.

Not all certification is done by the same authority, so UL is essentially equivalent to ETL. UL means the product was tested by Underwriters Laboratories Inc., ETL means it was tested by Intertek Testing Services (formerly ETL Testing Laboratories). If you have one or the other you've got nothing to worry about. There are also other marks; the CE (Conformance European) mark is very familiar looking to my eyes for example (i.e. I'm used to seeing it on the bottom of a lot of my electrical products).

The mark means the product has been independently tested, so you are not relying on the company themselves to have honestly checked their own equipment and reported all faults to the public.

It's not immediately clear whether the certification is to provide buyer confidence in the product, or if it's legally required by the government. The fact that I can't easily find something telling me it's required makes me lean towards it not being required, but there's absolutely no way I'd leave it at that without a definitive answer. It's one of those things that even if not required (which it might actually be) is standard practice.

Either way, if it was me I'd be concerned about being fobbed off by the company and looking into this further. In my opinion independent electrical testing of potentially dangerous goods (i.e. something that could burn down your house) is a serious matter.

Take this hypothetical for example: your house burns down because of this press. Will your insurance cover it? Or not, because you were running an unapproved product?

 

[InternationalJay]

Thanks for the replies, guys..

Badalou- Yeah, UL seems to be the go-to lab in America, pretty much everything electrical I own has a sticker from them, my lamps, iron, everything. I never gave it a second thought, but now of course I will be checking for proof of inspection on all of my purchases... hmm i havent checked my cell phone yet


Solmu- Wow, thanks for this wealth of information... You're right, the logical thing to do would be to send it back, but not without due compensation of course. I'll try to keep the attorneys out of it, hopefully Hix will be 100% agreeable. Shoulda went with the Geo!!

 

[Solmu]

Solmu- Wow, thanks for this wealth of information... You're right, the logical thing to do would be to send it back, but not without due compensation of course. I'll try to keep the attorneys out of it, hopefully Hix will be 100% agreeable. Shoulda went with the Geo!!

If it was me I'd look into it further first.

If the certification is required by the government (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) I'd report them. If it isn't required, I'd confirm that Hix aren't going to certify that model - if they will, I'd keep it (no doubt you bought it for a reason in the first place), and if they won't, then yes I'd be looking at returning it at this point.

That's what I'd do, but I'm sure some people would say I/we are worrying over nothing (I'd say those people don't take due care ). My point is though, you do want to really think it through before acting on whatever decision you make, because either way it does matter.

 

[InternationalJay]

If it was me I'd look into it further first.

If the certification is required by the government (and I'm not saying it is or isn't) I'd report them. If it isn't required, I'd confirm that Hix aren't going to certify that model - if they will, I'd keep it (no doubt you bought it for a reason in the first place), and if they won't, then yes I'd be looking at returning it at this point.

That's what I'd do, but I'm sure some people would say I/we are worrying over nothing (I'd say those people don't take due care ). My point is though, you do want to really think it through before acting on whatever decision you make, because either way it does matter.

Point taken. I just feel as if Hix shouldve done one of two things, either... A) Disclose the necessary information about the Swingman 20D and leave it up to us as potential customers to decide or B) NOT PUT IT ON THE OPEN MARKET YET. IMO without the certification the product I have is depreciating in value faster than the Sunday paper, mainly because every other heat press available has been cleared for public usage.

Ray at Hix did say that they were working on getting it approved, but who's to say what changes, if any, were required to be made to the approved model? And what would mine be worth at THAT point? Paying retail for a prototype is not a good look.

As far as it being required by law, Ray told me that ETL was a branch of the government, which may or may not be the case (thanks to the info in your initial post), but in theory, Im sure that these different factions are in place for a reason, for THIS reason. Cutting corners to save your company a few bucks, and passing those nonexistent expenses on to the general public, especially at this level of retail, is reprehensible. So I'll call Hix first thing tomorrow, and definitely keep u guys posted on the outcome...

BTW Thanks again for the feedback Solmu... This forum has been my primary source of info for the past few months and youre like a celebrity on here, Badalou as well... Now if i could just get Rodney and CominOutSwingin to drop a line, I'd really feel like I made it!!!

 

[Solmu]

That's fair - I agree with you.

They may well not be required to tell customers anything about certification. If it's there it's something good to mention, but unless the law actually requires they have it (wish that particular piece of information had been more obvious in my quick search, one way or the other) they wouldn't be required to specifically tell you they don't have it.

I agree that it's a problem and misleading, what I'm trying to get at is that the company might not agree. Personally I think it's grounds for a return and refund if you choose to do so, but they may not.

 

[InternationalJay]

Gotcha. Again, hopefully they'll see things my way. I think it's in their best interest to keep it self-contained, and I'd prefer to keep legal teams out of the loop on either side. Even if the certification isnt legally required, they wouldnt have a foot to stand on if push came to shove...

 

[JoshEllsworth]

Figured I'd chime in on this one...ETL is basically a certification that the product has been independently tested and meets approval and safety requirements, without a doubt. UL certification is very similar and is actually (in my opinion) seen as a superior certification even to ETL. CE is also a certification based on the same premise and is often required in many countries overseas in order for the product to be considered legal. Although certification is not demanded by law for a heat press in the US market, it is "peace of mind" for the consumer that proper components have been used in the manufacturing process to ensure safety at its fullest for the end user. Unfortunately, companies, in general, don't market this certification and draw a consumer awareness to the level they should due to the fact that most presses (in my experience) are certified.

 

[Solmu]

Figured I'd chime in on this one...

I had hoped you would - thanks.

UL certification is very similar and is actually (in my opinion) seen as a superior certification even to ETL.

Even in my quick searches this came up - I agree that it's definitely seen as a superior certification. Some markets have a tendency to use one form of certification more than others, but in general UL is considered the most rigorous (which is not to say the others are bad, just that UL is considered the best).

Although certification is not demanded by law for a heat press in the US market, it is "peace of mind" for the consumer

It's good to have that confirmed. This issue doesn't even affect me, but I do find it very interesting (what can I say, I'm a nerd).