[abhobden]

Hi everyone, hopefully someone can give me some insight into getting a smooth white underbase on black shirts.

We have good pretreated shirts and are trying to print the white underbase, what is happening is the white is looking fluffy, then when the colour goes onto it, it bleeds into the white. When we are pretreating, we are squeeging the tshirt from top to bottom supposedly to flatten the fibres, but it doesn't seem to affect it. We are getting good bright whites, just not nice and smooth. We are using a MP5 with AnaRIP software so we don't have any underbase layer settings like the older EK Rip software. Any ideas?

 

[23spiderman]

i smooth my shirts with the squeegee and it works fine. i also have found that hovering for about 30-60 seconds and then HEAVY pressure for about 30-60 gives you a really smooth finish.

what you are experiencing is the fibers of the shirt sticking up, allowing the colors to bleed. what brand of shirt are you using?

 

[Scifighter11]

Are you heat pressing the shirt right before you print. Also try spraying the pretreat a little thicker.

 

[abhobden]

i smooth my shirts with the squeegee and it works fine. i also have found that hovering for about 30-60 seconds and then HEAVY pressure for about 30-60 gives you a really smooth finish.

what you are experiencing is the fibers of the shirt sticking up, allowing the colors to bleed. what brand of shirt are you using?

Are you meaning hovering and pressing to dry the pretreat or are you doing that on a dry shirt before you print?

Scifighter11: Yes we are pressing it before printing.

Just done a test on a different brand T and its way better, so thinking thats the main issue.

 

[23spiderman]

Are you meaning hovering and pressing to dry the pretreat or are you doing that on a dry shirt before you print?

on the pretreat. i have found that hovering first helps get rid of the edges, and the shiny appearance. it's still damp when i press it, but not "wet".

 

[zoom_monster]

In My case, The hovering helps eliminate the "shine" that may happen when too much pretreat is left on the surface and not allowed to soak into the fiber. It also eliminates the "box" where you see a definate line of the cured and non cured area. The squeegee bends most of the standing and untwisted fibers down in the same direction. When the sitcky pretreat is pressed and the fibers are compressed... they are encasulated as much as possible in as uniform configuration as possible. Regarding the brand of shirts, The smoother the fabric and the finer the knit, the more unfiorm the white will laydown and reflect light through the translucent CMYK colors. Think Photo paper vs. newsprint. Texture = dullness. Gloss = more colors and brighter colors. Since you cannot get gloss, you experiment to get as smooth as possible.

There is a good article in Printwear magazine with pictures. Visualizing the "system" you want to create and looking at how other people achieved here on this forum and out on the web will give you a great starting point. Not everyone has the same equipment, works in the same environment or has the technical skills to explain how they work, so just try what seems logical to you and make it work for your shop thought testing and evaluation.

 

[ijustdontknow818]

Hello everybody I am new to this forum and would like to thank everybody for all the information, I just wish I would have found this sooner. I bought my sprint not to long ago and I think I am having the same issues as Alan. I am using AAA shirts and when I lay my underbase I get the same results. Its not fibers sticking up but the surface isn't flat so during heat press (even hovering first) the high spots push through and I can see white. Ive even been so irritated that I almost broke my heat press trying to clamp down on the shirt under the very heavy setting before printing with same results. Stumbling on reading this post and using up almost all of my white ink cartridges (the large ones) it all makes sense. The demo shirt that I got from anajet is smooth (like photo paper) like Z mentioned. So I guess the question is, what brand of shirts are recommended?

 

[abhobden]

Hello everybody I am new to this forum and would like to thank everybody for all the information, I just wish I would have found this sooner. I bought my sprint not to long ago and I think I am having the same issues as Alan. I am using AAA shirts and when I lay my underbase I get the same results. Its not fibers sticking up but the surface isn't flat so during heat press (even hovering first) the high spots push through and I can see white. Ive even been so irritated that I almost broke my heat press trying to clamp down on the shirt under the very heavy setting before printing with same results. Stumbling on reading this post and using up almost all of my white ink cartridges (the large ones) it all makes sense. The demo shirt that I got from anajet is smooth (like photo paper) like Z mentioned. So I guess the question is, what brand of shirts are recommended?

Hi. and welcome. We are in NZ so there isn't the same selection of brands available but it seems like its a case of experimentation for your situation. The designs we are trying to print are pushing DTG to its limits (and apparently beyond!) as we need to know what the limits are so we can advise our customers when they bring a job in.

 

[abhobden]

In My case, The hovering helps eliminate the "shine" that may happen when too much pretreat is left on the surface and not allowed to soak into the fiber. It also eliminates the "box" where you see a definate line of the cured and non cured area. The squeegee bends most of the standing and untwisted fibers down in the same direction. When the sitcky pretreat is pressed and the fibers are compressed... they are encasulated as much as possible in as uniform configuration as possible. Regarding the brand of shirts, The smoother the fabric and the finer the knit, the more unfiorm the white will laydown and reflect light through the translucent CMYK colors. Think Photo paper vs. newsprint. Texture = dullness. Gloss = more colors and brighter colors. Since you cannot get gloss, you experiment to get as smooth as possible.
There is a good article in Printwear magazine with pictures. Visualizing the "system" you want to create and looking at how other people achieved here on this forum and out on the web will give you a great starting point. Not everyone has the same equipment, works in the same environment or has the technical skills to explain how they work, so just try what seems logical to you and make it work for your shop thought testing and evaluation.

We have so far been pretreating and then line drying overnight. The new brand of T we just tried is giving good results now so that seems to have been our issue.

Yep, we have been experimenting for the past week now but being in NZ we don't have anything to really compare to visually so these forums have been really helpful. Is "Printwear magazine" you mention available online?

 

[Scifighter11]

We have so far been pretreating and then line drying overnight. The new brand of T we just tried is giving good results now so that seems to have been our issue.

That brings up a good question. What shirts has everyone been trying. What shirts have given the best results. How many shirts has everyone gotten out of the pretreat.

On average I gotten about 60 to 70 shirts one bottle of pretreat. And it's looking like. I have gotten better results from AAA shirts then gildan ultra cotton. The ultra cotton I have had to use more pretreat. It seems that it suck up the pretreat more. And has anyone see a difference between cottons. Like is resprung better then organic. And how well have they help up under washes. It would be interesting to see what brand would be the best. I have order several different brands just to see what shirts I liked. I think now I will print on them to see how the pretreat and ink reacts to theses shirts. Maybe we can make a list this way we will know what is best to use on the mpowers.

 

[23spiderman]

i really like the Gildan brand, and the Gildan Softstyle (ringspun) prints and washes great. they don't need as much pretreat since it's a thinner shirt (4.5oz) i've never tried AAA. i've also heard that Port & Company from Sanmar is a good shirt. i have some samples here, but i haven't taken the time to print on them yet.

 

[zoom_monster]

Port and company (PC61) are great, come in men's women's and kids and very reasonable price wise. AAA I get very mixed results, especially with black and navy. I think I've gotten over dyed ones before, so i avoid them and Anvil unless I'm specifically asked. The fashon stuff from American apparel print great if the customer can pay the price and are OK with the lighter weights.

Regarding shirts that "suck up" the pretreat, Use a spray bottle or seperate wagner to dampen them. I do this automatically to sweats, but I also will do this to tees in the dry months to keep the pretreat on the surface. If you live in lower lying humid areas, this may not be nessasary. My theory is that a damp sponge(the tee) will not draw so much away from the surface.

 

[signfx77]

That theory sounds logical. I will try it. I recently printed on some canvas brand ring spun shirts and got the best print results yet. Have not tested washability yet.

 

[Scifighter11]

Thanks zoom. I give it a try. I have printed on the alternative 3.4 oz it's a 90% cotton 10% poly. It printed awesome. Also the aaa and pro clubs they work good. Also Bella and canvas. Gildan G200, g500, g644. The last one Was better 4.5 oz. I'm thinking that the lighter shirts might be the way to go. I did a pretreat on a shirt twice to see what would happen. And the whites wasn't as white and it looked like it didn't spread evenly. The white that is. And plus it came out rubbery. Oh I also printed on an outer banks polo it came out prefect. I was really I'm pressed with it.

 

[abhobden]

Back on track - we still having problems with the white. Looks like we are going to re look at our pre treatment as maybe we are going too fast with it. Also, when we squeegy it off, we may be putting too much pressure on it and wiping off the pretreatment.... Will let you all know how we get on.

 

[johnbol1]

i really like the Gildan brand, and the Gildan Softstyle (ringspun) prints and washes great. they don't need as much pretreat since it's a thinner shirt (4.5oz) i've never tried AAA. i've also heard that Port & Company from Sanmar is a good shirt. i have some samples here, but i haven't taken the time to print on them yet.

Gildan softstyle works great for us, white and darks
we always air dry our shirts, bought in at a case at a time then all pre treated at once then put back in the boxes on the shelf (only black and white I must add). A quick pre press before we run it is all we do and we think the little residual heat in the shirt from the pre press helps the underbase too. we buy other colours when needed.

John

 

[abhobden]

Think we have figured it out. We were pretreating and then hanging on the line to dry over night, then using the next day. Found a useful article on printwear.com showing a dark shirt under a microscope after line drying compared to one that had been pressed with a heat press to dry and another one under a pneumatic heat press. Today we pretreated and then heat pressed, then printed straight away and got a great bright print! (not quite perfect but very close). Hope that helps someone else so they don't have to go through what we did.

 

[sondzin]

I pretreat with a wagner sprayer and if doing them the same day, let them dry at least several hours. I do a heatpress on the dry pretreated shirt for about 20 seconds and I get a good smooth surface. Still hard to get vibrant colors with the MP5, but if you can find the balance between more white ink and saturation of color so that the white doesn't bleed into your color, that would be good.

Also, when using the heatpress after printing, I let the shirt sit out a minute or two before putting it into the heatpress, then I hover for at least 30 seconds, without the Kraft paper, then put the parper in and close the heatpress. I have gotten the best results that way.

David

 

[TenGreenBags]

Were having a similar problem, however we cannot print the whit background on the image onto the dark fabric. Help anyone?

 

[thedigiguy]

Proper pre treat takes a little practice. The shirt you use will also make a difference. When we pretreat by hand we press the shirt until there is no trace of steam when we lift the press. This removes any moisture that has collected in the shirt from humidity. We spray the shirt, we squeegee the shirt, we hang it to dry. After its dry to the touch we press it again until it doesn't steam. Then we print. For shirt colors other than black, we really like the sanmar pc61. It comes in many different colors and prints well.